DIY JPTR 8 clone *** New VCO Core Picture ***

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tobb
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Post by tobb » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:56 pm

grenert wrote:In my opinion, the main advantage of THT for DIY is the ability to mod a design.
And.... repairs,if you spend quit a lot of money on this and something breaks down on a card 10 years layer and no more spare cards available...good luck repairing the SMT cards.

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grenert
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Post by grenert » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:05 pm

tobb wrote:
grenert wrote:In my opinion, the main advantage of THT for DIY is the ability to mod a design.
And.... repairs,if you spend quit a lot of money on this and something breaks down on a card 10 years layer and no more spare cards available...good luck repairing the SMT cards.
I would bet that I am far likely going to be able to find replacement components in SMD than through hole in 10 years. I have no problem repairing a surface mount board if needed.

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Post by Panason » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:11 pm

A 4-voice desktop/ 19'' rack would be nice :nana:

Resonant HPF pleeeeease?

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:26 pm

Below a render of the FP I've been working on.
The left bottom are the Synth Config and Arpeggiator buttons, but these have not been lay-outed yet.
The color scheme is not definitive.
Right now all options for the control panel are open.

Several small options have to be add to the already placed pots and knobs, but this is a start.

To squeeze all of this in a 3U x 19" is going to be a very though one.
Especially keeping in mind that everything has to be 'live' controlable and thus swiftly accessable.

Therefor I was thinking in the direction of:
- Stand alone
- Remote Control Panel, as below, and 3U module
- which then, kind of automatically, leads to tobb's idea
multi modules for layering using one controller

Anyhow, indead by going to 3U only, all sliders have to become turning pots.
But here's the preliminary lay-out of the stand alone/ remote controller .

All reactions welcome. :chug:

Image
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

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Starspawn
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Post by Starspawn » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:28 pm

What about squeezing into a 5U panel that could be both racked or standalone?
(think perfourmer or the like).

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:51 pm

Starspawn
What about squeezing into a 5U panel that could be both racked or standalone?
I like the idea.
The above render is slightly too high for a 5U rack, but the PCB is less big.
I might do the stand alone to fit in a 5U when using some top and bottom mounting brackets.

Panason
Resonant HPF pleeeeease?
I've had the same question by PM as well. I added it today to the 1st-2nd order HPF. The current HPF has a cut-off range from 20Hz to 2kHz, and resonance can be made self oscillating.

tobb
And.... repairs
The Voice cards do not contain 'difficult to get components', I don't really expect problems there.

LED-man
4 Layer pcb
Yip, the voice boards which have been ordered yesterday are 4 layer boards, so will be the Motherboard, if not 6 layer for noise and common impedance reasons. (this price difference will not make the difference on the total package)

I've updated the list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
Please add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. LED-man
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

djs
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Post by djs » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:02 pm

@nabla- I prefer TH, but not sure if I'd be "in" if the pcbs are 100$ each :) I really like the desktop render you have above- keeps the spirit of the JP8. How deep are the voice cards?
"Noise is what the Earth is made of" - David Bowie

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:15 pm

djs
TH: noted !
but not sure if I'd be "in" if the pcbs are 100$ each :smile:
100$...I understand. But...
I've never seen anyone selling,
Two oscillators, two waveshapers, one mixer, one 1st-2nd order selectable HPF, one 2nd - 4th order selectable LPF with resonance and one VCA for 100$.

There's a difference in price if the whole thing is bought, but I'm afraid that the price for 1 Voice Card is going to be higher then 100$, certainly when I have to run small populated quantities. Sorry. :despair:
I really like the desktop render you have above- keeps the spirit of the JP8.
Thanks.
How deep are the voice cards?
The SMD Voice Cards are 35mm.
Inclusive MotherBoard that will be some 40mm.
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

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Eric the Red
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Post by Eric the Red » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:53 pm

Count me in for THT
Abandon all hope, ye who wiggle.

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tobb
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Post by tobb » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:07 pm

Boogie wrote: tobb
And.... repairs
The Voice cards do not contain 'difficult to get components', I don't really expect problems there.
Its never about the components when repairing SMT,its about damaging the hair-thin tracks.

Btw another thing i forgot to tell you is the patchbay section on the panel if you plan to do this kind of design its better to put this large taste-area in the middle of the panel.

In fact its best to have all those program and patchbay switches at the 3/4 left side of the panel.

This due most people are right-handed and this will avoid touching the patchbay switch area with the right arm and you can create a wrist resting spot

ALSO

You should consider swapping the two controller rows,so that the osc and filter controls are at the lower side (closer to the wrist-rest) it will be much pleasing when tweaking the synth for a long time...

PS: for the desktop casing you could use the Belgium manufacturer that did the first metal Yocto 808 clone cases,it was clever made one piece all bend casing with nice silkscreen

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Post by djs » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:45 pm

Boogie wrote: I've never seen anyone selling,
Two oscillators, two waveshapers, one mixer, one 1st-2nd order selectable HPF, one 2nd - 4th order selectable LPF with resonance and one VCA for 100$.
You've got a point there :) This is definitely an awesome project, and a JP8 is definitely a dream of mine... I'll be watching with interest.
"Noise is what the Earth is made of" - David Bowie

Level5
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Post by Level5 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:18 pm

Please put me on the THT list :yay:

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Post by gianni » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:14 am

what an awesome project!!!

please put me on the list for THT!

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:16 am

I've updated the list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
Please add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. LED-man
7. djs
8. Eric the Red
9. Level5
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

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mOBiTh
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Post by mOBiTh » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:42 am

I'm def up for building an SMD one 8-)

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Post by aabbcc » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:44 am

Here, I'm adding the your lazy buggers name on the list for you, thats how much I want to see this as THT happen :hail:

I've updated the list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
Please add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. LED-man
7. djs
8. Eric the Red
9. Level5
10. gianni

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:53 am

gianni
Sorry I missed that, it must have arrived while typing my post. :doh:
aabbcc
thanks for adding. 8-)
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:06 am

Thank you all for your feedback.
I really appreciate.

But..., as usually, there's a but
(not about going TH, seems that will have to happen)

But...
I arrived at the problem of the Control Panel Lay-out if I want to respect all feedback.

Below a screen dump of the current lay-out,
which I will further update with all of your input,
over the PCB size (green field) for a 84hp x 5U unit.

Even moving to 45mm sliders is not going to get everything clean on the green surface.

Which appraoch would you guys do or prefer ?
Given the fact that it has to be well accessible for live performance, How would you modify the lay-out. Which type of knobs, circular ? slider ? diameter ? distance?

Wouldn't a panel with only round dials loose its overview?

On the other hand, appart from rearanging for better handling and less wrong dynamic live action, does it have to shrink ? (apologies to Starspawn, I like the idea of 5U anyhow).


Image
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

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Fitchie
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Post by Fitchie » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:31 am

Boogie wrote:Below a screen dump of the current lay-out,
which I will further update with all of your input,
over the PCB size (green field) for a 84hp x 5U unit.
19" 5U is unmanageably large !
Do we really need the sliders ?

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Post by djs » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:55 pm

Fitchie wrote:Do we really need the sliders ?
Yes- we do :)

Just a thought on this, but given the size, wouldn't we want a larger case size for better heat dissipation?

Secondly- related to THC vs SMT, I think THC design is easier to trace problems. Also, if there's an issue with a bad component later on, it's easier to retrofit SMT to a THC board design than vice versa. But that's just me :)
"Noise is what the Earth is made of" - David Bowie

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Post by Boogie » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:09 pm

To make it more easy or...difficult ?

The screendump below shows 3 form factors.
  • Dark Brown as Initially foreseen
    Green as PCB for 5U x 84 hp
    Dark Gray as TTSH Front Panel
Light gray is just the background with a grid raster

Image
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

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Post by Panason » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:46 pm

:sb:

I'll have to go with whatever is cheapest!

How much MIDI control are we talking?
Last edited by Panason on Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by devinw1 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:51 pm

Lookin good!

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Post by Panason » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:03 pm

I always prefer knobs for a synth module that will be standing upright facing forward (instead of flat on the desk). Moving sliders accurately on those is awkward....
I hope coloured buttons like the original will be included!

I have a good tech guy in my area that can build this for me ... eventually :guinness:
tobb wrote:You should consider swapping the two controller rows,so that the osc and filter controls are at the lower side (closer to the wrist-rest) it will be much pleasing when tweaking the synth for a long time...
Yes.

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Post by tobb » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:33 pm

I would step away from the Jupiter 8 colors (that orange) and definitely use another name then 'JPTR 8',maybe take a look at the Roland MPG-80 colors..the different colors looks great on a large panel,but with all those collor switches on top its getting a bit charged in such small surface.

With all the effort you put into this large project and have a name like 'JPTR 8' printed on the panel,its just looks cheap imo,it deserves better then that.

Use a new original name to put your big project in the spotlight..

Also take count that if you use a standard pre-painted black 19'' rack enclosure for the cards its best to have the front of your desktop also in black so it match and will save cost not to have a full custom painted rack enclosure.

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