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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

DIY JPTR 8 clone *** New VCO Core Picture ***
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author DIY JPTR 8 clone *** New VCO Core Picture ***
Boogie
2019-05-01 New VCO Core Picture
2019-04-28 New VCO Core Flatness
2019-04-27 VCO core Power Update
2019-04-14 Status Update
2019-03-10 Preference list updated
2019-03-08 MIDI IF assembled
2019-03-07 Audio PCB assembled
2019-03-07 some PCBs arrived
2019-03-07 2 VB Soundscape, List updated
2019-03-02 2 Voice Boards SOUNDSCAPE
2019-03-02 2 Voice Boards Audio File
2019-02-26 MIDI IF
2019-02-24 Audio Output IF Board
2019-02-17 Voice Board soldering update
2019-02-17 Updated List & Voice Board detail
2019-02-15 Updated Interest List
2019-01-28 Moving to the next step
2019-01-26 Band in the rain
2019-01-13 Interest List Updated
2019-01-12 Intermediate Test Board
2019-01-06 Updated
2019-01-02 V/Oct Tracking
2019-01-02 Interest list updated
2018-12-24 Merry Christmas
2018-12-18 About 320 components on the User IF
2018-12-18 Updated FP
2018-12-17 Updated list
2018-12-16 Preliminary User InterFace
2018-12-15 Updated interest list
2018-12-10 Free running Oscillators
2018-12-09 Some single voice pads
2018-12-08 Full voice module sounds
2018-12-08 First sound compare
2018-12-04 First Voice Board Populated
2018-12-01 Focus back on HW
2018-11-25 Approaching Final Format
2018-11-23 Enclosure outline
2018-11-21 Thank you for your feedback
2018-11-19 COntrol Panel help request
2018-11-18 Yes, it's a Jupiter 8 clone
2018-11-18 TH Voice Board Poll
2018-11-17 Voice PCBs Ordered
2018-11-16 New Audio
2018-11-12 The enclosure which it's not going to be
2018-11-11 New Sounds
2018-11-11 First Sounds
2018-11-11 Routed Voice Board V00.01
2018-11-10 Project launch



Hello all,

I've been rather silent during the last months as I've been working on some new project.

I will appologise up front, as I will not be offering all PCB's in kit form, but rather, as many of you already know, SMD populated.

Now, .... that is only for the voice boards and the processor board.

The controll board, or so to say, the User Interface, will be a mainly Through Hole Board with some SMD and will be measuring about 490 x 280 mm or some 19.3" x 11.0"

The pictures below may already give an indication where this is leading to.

All reactions welcome.

B rgds,
Boogie



djs
Two things that I don't like about an ambika (and why I haven't gotten one) is that each voice board has it's own cpu, and that the front panel doesn't have enough knobs. What are your thoughts on this?
Boogie
Hello djs

Quote:
Two things that I don't like about an ambika (and why I haven't gotten one) is that each voice board has it's own cpu, and that the front panel doesn't have enough knobs. What are your thoughts on this?

I'm sure I have at least good news for one of the topics and even maybe twice.
I can assure that the voice boards are fully analog no digital stuff except some select line for the analog switches.Rockin' Banana!
I can also assure that the on board VCO's are not DCO's. Rockin' Banana!

As the layout of the User Interface is not completed yet (though all functionality is known) I prefer not to publish the lay out yet, but here's a brief summary.
Synthesizer part
- 24 sliders
- 9 rotary knobs
- 13 push buttons

Patch Bay plus something I will disclose later
- 34 push buttons

Something else I will disclose later
- 19 push buttons
StillNotWorking
Let me guess. is it J8 inspired VCO? cool

Patch memory?

Number of user selectable modulation slots?
Boogie
StillNotWorking wrote:
Let me guess. is it J8 inspired VCO? cool
So true, yes. thumbs up
Quote:
Patch memory?
Yes, but with an extra.
Quote:
Number of user selectable modulation slots?
This might be possible.
Revok
Really looking forward to this one nanners
Fitchie
This will be cool !
Following this thread from now on...
grin
v8pete
Cool project, good luck!
masterofstuff124
Sounds very interesting. looking forward to it!
Eric the Red
Looks intriguing. Following this to see where it goes.
Boogie
Hello all,

thanks for the motivation.

Here's a screendump of the routed Voice Board Proto.
The green plane in approx the middle of the board is a low impedance plane to couple a split power plane in one of the inner layers.
One another of course to avoid voltage drops in the power distribution vs. using thin traces.

Boogie
And here's a first sound file.

It's the original Jupiter 8 LPF with a IR3109
and
a Home Brewn filter.
One of them is on the left channel, the other on the right channel.

Single voice, two oscillators (one can hear them fade) (fading by intentional detune)
Only effect is Q_Base Reverb, no additional processing.
Only playing with cut-off frequency, no Resonance feedback, thus pure 4th order LPF.

Have fun figuring out which channel is the original. I hope it's a chalenge and not too easy. meh
All feedback welcome.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/filter-compare[/s]
Boogie
Here's another one.

Single Voice Multi Track Recording
Drums are my TR808 clone.
Only post processing some QBase reverb

Opening chords of Jump (Van Halen)

[s]https://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/jump[/s]
Fitchie
Ohhh yeah, back to the 80's !
Fat sounds, cross-modulation and velocity controlled resonance. cool

I like !
grenert
Very cool, Boogie! It sounds great! Nice plug for your TR clone, too hihi
tobb
Boogie wrote:


Have fun figuring out which channel is the original. I hope it's a chalenge and not too easy. meh



The distinct Roland filter sound lays in the sounds with resonance and this is very enhanced when played poly.

And zero reverb.

Its impossible to compare w/o these elements.

PS: With all the skills you have i would do the vco's Tzero then a whole new and large sound palette is added to your clone and suddenly your synth becomes not a clone but the first one analog TZ poly- synth on the planet.

Add a multimode vcf and another vco = bey bey Moog One

Add filter fm (vco-to cutoff) (MUST HAVE) = bey bey P5
Boogie
Hey Revok
Good to see you here too!

also to grenert
Nice to see you again !
Thanks for the feedback Chugging Beers
I hope the MiniP7 is bringing lots of fun to you.

For all new supporters, thanks for being here !

Hey tobb
nice to see you again too !

Same as last time,
your analysis is very to the point and much appreciated ! thumbs up

The polyphonic sound is going to take a while, as in at least 6-8 weeks. And then probably just some 2-3 voices not 8 yet. PCBs to be ordered debugged etc... (schematics to be updated with your newly provided info ;-) )

I must admit, the reverb is nasty.
I'll post another sound file, say in a about a couple days to a week, without the reverb and with resonance but still single voice.
Let's hope differentiating will still be tough.

The Tzero would also mean linear FM which I didn't foresee yet.

You've introduced a good idea I wasn't thinking of, thank you. Chugging Beers
Fortunately, it's not too late to make it happen.
I'll play a bit with one another and will find out how it goes. If fine, I'll post in time.

Quote:
Add filter fm (vco-to cutoff) (MUST HAVE) = bey bey P5

Is already foreseen, (VCO or LFO) but not used in the sound files above.
tobb
Boogie wrote:


Quote:
Add filter fm (vco-to cutoff) (MUST HAVE) = bey bey P5

Is already foreseen, (VCO or LFO) but not used in the sound files above.


Excellent but you have to have both at same time,lfo is to make movements to the sound,filter fm is to obtain another VCF sound/grain: with closed cutoff and the reso a bit boosted you get organic sounds.

And i just would route fixed a sine or triangle to the filter fm independent of the selected vco wave.
Boogie
Quote:
And i just would route fixed a sine or triangle to the filter fm independent of the selected vco wave.


OK,
if I understand correct, you would use a seperate VCO to be the TZ modulation source. That's a good idea and simplifies one another.

Is my interpretation correct ?

[/quote]
aabbcc
YES Guinness ftw!

This sounds very interesting
tobb
Boogie wrote:
Quote:
And i just would route fixed a sine or triangle to the filter fm independent of the selected vco wave.


OK,
if I understand correct, you would use a seperate VCO to be the TZ modulation source. That's a good idea and simplifies one another.

Is my interpretation correct ?

[/quote]

No,i mean for the FM routing from a vco to the filter cutoff the best effect is obtained with a sine or triangle,the other waves mess up to much and it getting crunchy,with a sine or triangle the effect is subtle and just enough to simulate a light overblown effect or making sounding your filter ARP-ish. make sure the fm signal depth is large enough,so still extreme mod is posibel (i have a Schmidt synth that also have FM mod from the vco's to vcf's but the mod amount is not deep enough)

So let say if you have two vco's in the synth chain each with x waveforms,just route the sine or triangle from one of them to the filter cutoff mod matrix,that way you can use let say saw or square from that vco to the fvc audio in,but the triangle or sine of the same vco will always be the modulation waveform to the filter.

You have to test but i think its best to use as mod source vco 1,because if you do also fm between osc, OSC2 -> 1, pitch of vco 2 will in most cases (other then doing flipperbox sounds) higher then pitch of vco 1
tobb
Also, i would design the front panel with rotating knobs rather then a combi with faders,because if its a rack enclosure vertical fader controls is less pleasing to tweak VS knobs,faders are great if its desktop or flat/horizontal synth enclosure.

Also it better not to promote the synth as a Jupiter-8 clone but as a new synth with more features that can emulate JP-8 type sounds.
StillNotWorking
tobb wrote:
Also, i would design the front panel with rotating knobs rather then a combi with faders,because if its a rack enclosure vertical fader controls is less pleasing to tweak VS knobs,faders are great if its desktop or flat/horizontal synth enclosure.

Also it better not to promote the synth as a Jupiter-8 clone but as a new synth with more features that can emulate JP-8 type sounds.

Fully agree on this. But often feel we are a minority saying this. Maybe people forget synths might have a life outside the premium ergometric work space when they calls for faders.
Boogie
Hello tobb
Quote:
better not to promote the synth as a Jupiter-8 clone but as a new synth with more features that can emulate JP-8 type sounds
Exactly my idea as well. I was thinking on Nabla Instruments ... (to be disclosed later)
As one of the initial questions in this thread was ifthe VCOs would be JPTR 8 derivatives, I had to say yes, as they are.
But for final product, it will be an expanded version of the JPTR 8, so another name with a 'blink of the eye' towards JPTR 8 came across my mind.

About the frontpanel,
I will disclose more later, but I can already inform that the first version is not really going in the direction of Eurorack but rather stand alone.

When moving to Eurorack, yes I absolutely agree,
keep the knobs well accessable and then rotary is easier to work with if indicators are 'clean' visible.
m.o
How is your signal routing done, on the voice board or on processor board?

Which waveforms are available from the vcos (square, saw, triangle?, sine?), and how are you switching them (external to voice board or externally)?

Are the levels from each oscillator controllable by a vca for each vco, or simpler full-half-none scheme (like Oberheim OBx)?

It looks like there are 3 tempco resistors, third one if for the filter?

Are there any provisions for some auto-calibration?

How many CVs do you end up with per voice?

(Sorry if some questions are a bit nosey ) hihi
Boogie
m.o wrote:
How is your signal routing done, on the voice board or on processor board?
I only route manual (everything) Thus, manual routed 4 layer. Signal GND Power Signal but most signals on top layer.

Quote:
Which waveforms are available from the vcos (square, saw, triangle?, sine?), and how are you switching them (external to voice board or externally)?
Signals are pretty much as you describe, but slightly expanded.
All selection and switching via analog switch, thus digital control into the voice board.

Quote:
Are the levels from each oscillator controllable by a vca for each vco, or simpler full-half-none scheme (like Oberheim OBx)?
As to be programmable for recalling patches, each voice board has 2 VCO's, Mixer by means of 2 VCA's current summed to voltage out, VC HPF, VC LPF, VC Resonance and a VCA outputting 1 analog signal per voice.

Quote:
It looks like there are 3 tempco resistors, third one if for the filter?
Yip.

Quote:
Are there any provisions for some auto-calibration?
Yes, but only within a sudden range, so precalibration is necessary. Also continuous dynamic calibration can run. That algorhythm is also already functional.

Quote:
How many CVs do you end up with per voice?
4

Just wondering,
given all your to the point questions, what would you like to use the voiceboards for ?
KSS
Surely the trims will be side adjust like a JP-4? Quickly scanned the thread and didn't see reference to this. 3D image of 8 up would be impossible to calibrate as shown?
m.o
My interest comes from having tried to build a polysynth myself a while ago( six voice, 1 vco per voice), it's interesting to see how problems are solved by someone else.

KSS wrote:
Surely the trims will be side adjust like a JP-4? Quickly scanned the thread and didn't see reference to this. 3D image of 8 up would be impossible to calibrate as shown?


If that's a worry, the two trimmers for the filter maybe should be moved to the same back edge (for accessability)?
Boogie
KSS
Quote:
3D image of 8 up would be impossible to calibrate as shown?

True !
They need one by one calibration in overall, then being inserted.
The SW will do the rest.

m.o
Quote:
If that's a worry, the two trimmers for the filter maybe should be moved to the same back edge (for accessability)?

about the same solution here, apart from the processor closed loop.
Boogie
For those who may have been wondering

here is what it's not going to be.

Just teasing

Fitchie
Nice render !
applause
devinw1
Dude... this is badass.
Boogie
tobb
Quote:
You have to test but i think its best to use as mod source vco 1,because if you do also fm between osc, OSC2 -> 1, pitch of vco 2 will in most cases (other then doing flipperbox sounds) higher then pitch of vco 1

I plan to build the VCO's as foreseen for a quick start and clean setup to then modify the functional VCO's toward lin FM.
The TZ vco sound I published in my TZ thread were indead 2 to 3 octaves apart from each other, each tracking the same CV.

Thank you for the extended explanation.
I'll play with the oscillators & filters, and see where it leads me.
Though that will not be for the next weeks as I still have to order the proto voice-boards.
Boogie
Some sound file below.

Biggest difference in sound comes from the number of voices which are all asynchronous and create the a more 'full' feeling in the original.

I'm using three oscillators as in 1.5 voices.

Hope you like where it's going.
4 parts: original, clone, original, clone.
Original from Youtube.

Next step is to update the schematics and PCB,
and then order the proto's.

Informative,
It might look like a Jupiter 8 clone, but the idea is to build a polypnonic synth with nice jupiter-like filters.

All feedback welcome.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/filtercompare6[/s]
Boogie
Voice PCBs are ordered.

Each voice PCB contains some 351 components (for now confused )
We'll see how many debug and functional options add.
tron23
Boogie wrote:
Some sound file below.

Hope you like where it's going.



It is getting along very nicely, closely following. Guinness ftw!
Fitchie
Boogie wrote:
I will appologise up front, as I will not be offering all PCB's in kit form, but rather, as many of you already know, SMD populated.

Now, .... that is only for the voice boards and the processor board.
The control board, or so to say, the User Interface, will be a mainly Through Hole Board with some SMD

If I understand correctly, the control board will have a bunch of connectors where the voice boards and processor will be plugged in.

So is there any chance you'll offer these voice boards also in through hole (possibly at a later time)?
*** puppy eyes ***

I think the home builders would definitely appreciate that.
The real go-getters can then solder all >3000 components themselves, those who prefer to make music faster than soldering can choose the preassembled SMT voice boards.

Anyhow, great project !
You may put me on the list for beta testing.
we're not worthy
Boogie
Fitchie wrote:

So is there any chance you'll offer these voice boards also in through hole (possibly at a later time)?
*** puppy eyes ***

Let's find out how many would love to see the voice board becoming available as a Through Hole board.

So here's an interest List.
Would you like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
Then please add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
Boogie
Hello all,

It think, time has come to tell you what it's going to be.

So, yes, it's a Jupiter 8 clone
as good as the original with the fat sounds, as you know from the eighties, and with some extended features.

It's name: JPTR 8

The system is based on the Jupiter 8's block diagram.
The voice board is split to only hold one two oscillator voice.

It contains two oscillators, two waveshapers, a mixer, a 1st / 2nd order selectable HP filter, a 2nd / 4th order LP filter with resonance and a VCA.
All of these are Voltage Controllable.

All envelopes are processor generated and sent to the voice board via some DAC and S&H circuits.
Roland's ADSR chip IR3R01 is not used. The use of a processor to generate the ADSR waveform creates a huge sound pallet compared to an integrating ADSR.

The housekeeping is done by 3 µControllers.
One per 4 voices, and one for the frontpanel and midi processing.
The processors for the voices are running
- a command parser (commands comming from the main CPU on the frontpanel)
- 8 Control Voltages for the Oscillators
- 4 Control voltages extra modulations
- 4 VCA envelope ADSR's
- 4 VCF envelope ADSR's
- 2 LFO's
- Mixing, X modulation, etc...

Each Voice board has:
- 13 analog inputs
- 4 analog outputs
- 10 digital inputs


As this is a quite big project, I've foreseen the possiblity to run it with limited voices. Depending on the investment one wants to make, one can add or leave out some voice boards.

For now, I will be doing this as SMD populated PCBs except for the FrontPanel.
Depending on the requests and feedback, I might redesign the voice boards with Through Hole Components.

The main question for now is the form factor.
Would you prefer a stand alone (without keyboard) or
would you prefer a 3U version ?

I will post some more pictures of the design and some more Single Voice audio over the next days.

Please feel free to leave comments about the form factor, SMD or TH, sound quality, additional features, etc...
Revok
we're not worthy
Stand alone is my preference.

Normally I'm against pre-populated boards but for a project of this size I'm okay with it hihi
aabbcc
Boogie wrote:
Fitchie wrote:

So is there any chance you'll offer these voice boards also in through hole (possibly at a later time)?
*** puppy eyes ***

Let's find out how many would love to see the voice board becoming available as a Through Hole board.

So here's an interest List.
Would you like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
Then please add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc


Added my name for a tht version.

Also I'd prefer it as a standalone without keyboard smile
tobb
Through Hole cards and rack version + desktop control panel + possibility to control X 8-voice racks with the single control panel, so we can layer 2-3 sounds at 8-voice smile
Boogie
Hi guys,
thanks for the feedback spinning

Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
Please add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb


First system will be in SMD, but when enough requests, a TH version of the Voice Board, Mother Board and Control Panel is possible.
Here's a preview of the motherboard.
It holds 8 voices, the processor board, the DAC's, S&H, power supply and output mixer.
PSU and output mixer are not implemented yet.
Expected component count for the mother board is in the order of 210 parts.
Current config already 160.
PCB dimentions (for now) 110 x 150 mm, so this still fits in a 3U rack.

grenert
Hi, Boogie.
I vote for standalone.
I don't think I would at all miss the monotony of hand soldering eight voice boards. I'm perfectly happy with pre-soldered SMD. Plus, this will likely be pretty big; THT will only make it bigger. In my opinion, the main advantage of THT for DIY is the ability to mod a design. However, with such a complicated project with digital control, I think that realistically, there won't be a lot of opportunity to mod the hardware. So I'm happy to have the tedious work done for me!
JanneI
THT please!
Fitchie
Boogie wrote:
The main question for now is the form factor.
Would you prefer a stand alone (without keyboard) or
would you prefer a 3U version ?

I slightly prefer a 19" rack, but also happy with a stand alone device.
maximee
Stand alone or 19” for me, too. Looking very promising!
Starspawn
Im with grenert, at this complexity SMD is best. Depending on what offers more controls either standalone or rack is good.
Jaytee
Through hole and standalone would be my preference
LED-man
THT please, 4 Layer pcb
tobb
grenert wrote:
In my opinion, the main advantage of THT for DIY is the ability to mod a design.


And.... repairs,if you spend quit a lot of money on this and something breaks down on a card 10 years layer and no more spare cards available...good luck repairing the SMT cards.
grenert
tobb wrote:
grenert wrote:
In my opinion, the main advantage of THT for DIY is the ability to mod a design.


And.... repairs,if you spend quit a lot of money on this and something breaks down on a card 10 years layer and no more spare cards available...good luck repairing the SMT cards.


I would bet that I am far likely going to be able to find replacement components in SMD than through hole in 10 years. I have no problem repairing a surface mount board if needed.
Panason
A 4-voice desktop/ 19'' rack would be nice nanners

Resonant HPF pleeeeease?
Boogie
Below a render of the FP I've been working on.
The left bottom are the Synth Config and Arpeggiator buttons, but these have not been lay-outed yet.
The color scheme is not definitive.
Right now all options for the control panel are open.

Several small options have to be add to the already placed pots and knobs, but this is a start.

To squeeze all of this in a 3U x 19" is going to be a very though one.
Especially keeping in mind that everything has to be 'live' controlable and thus swiftly accessable.

Therefor I was thinking in the direction of:
- Stand alone
- Remote Control Panel, as below, and 3U module
- which then, kind of automatically, leads to tobb's idea
multi modules for layering using one controller

Anyhow, indead by going to 3U only, all sliders have to become turning pots.
But here's the preliminary lay-out of the stand alone/ remote controller .

All reactions welcome. Chugging Beers

Starspawn
What about squeezing into a 5U panel that could be both racked or standalone?
(think perfourmer or the like).
Boogie
Starspawn
Quote:
What about squeezing into a 5U panel that could be both racked or standalone?

I like the idea.
The above render is slightly too high for a 5U rack, but the PCB is less big.
I might do the stand alone to fit in a 5U when using some top and bottom mounting brackets.

Panason
Quote:
Resonant HPF pleeeeease?

I've had the same question by PM as well. I added it today to the 1st-2nd order HPF. The current HPF has a cut-off range from 20Hz to 2kHz, and resonance can be made self oscillating.

tobb
Quote:
And.... repairs

The Voice cards do not contain 'difficult to get components', I don't really expect problems there.

LED-man
Quote:
4 Layer pcb

Yip, the voice boards which have been ordered yesterday are 4 layer boards, so will be the Motherboard, if not 6 layer for noise and common impedance reasons. (this price difference will not make the difference on the total package)

I've updated the list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
Please add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. LED-man
djs
@nabla- I prefer TH, but not sure if I'd be "in" if the pcbs are 100$ each smile I really like the desktop render you have above- keeps the spirit of the JP8. How deep are the voice cards?
Boogie
djs
TH: noted !
Quote:
but not sure if I'd be "in" if the pcbs are 100$ each smile

100$...I understand. But...
I've never seen anyone selling,
Two oscillators, two waveshapers, one mixer, one 1st-2nd order selectable HPF, one 2nd - 4th order selectable LPF with resonance and one VCA for 100$.

There's a difference in price if the whole thing is bought, but I'm afraid that the price for 1 Voice Card is going to be higher then 100$, certainly when I have to run small populated quantities. Sorry. seriously, i just don't get it
Quote:
I really like the desktop render you have above- keeps the spirit of the JP8.
Thanks.
Quote:
How deep are the voice cards?
The SMD Voice Cards are 35mm.
Inclusive MotherBoard that will be some 40mm.
Eric the Red
Count me in for THT
tobb
Boogie wrote:

tobb
Quote:
And.... repairs

The Voice cards do not contain 'difficult to get components', I don't really expect problems there.


Its never about the components when repairing SMT,its about damaging the hair-thin tracks.

Btw another thing i forgot to tell you is the patchbay section on the panel if you plan to do this kind of design its better to put this large taste-area in the middle of the panel.

In fact its best to have all those program and patchbay switches at the 3/4 left side of the panel.

This due most people are right-handed and this will avoid touching the patchbay switch area with the right arm and you can create a wrist resting spot

ALSO

You should consider swapping the two controller rows,so that the osc and filter controls are at the lower side (closer to the wrist-rest) it will be much pleasing when tweaking the synth for a long time...

PS: for the desktop casing you could use the Belgium manufacturer that did the first metal Yocto 808 clone cases,it was clever made one piece all bend casing with nice silkscreen
djs
Boogie wrote:

I've never seen anyone selling,
Two oscillators, two waveshapers, one mixer, one 1st-2nd order selectable HPF, one 2nd - 4th order selectable LPF with resonance and one VCA for 100$.


You've got a point there smile This is definitely an awesome project, and a JP8 is definitely a dream of mine... I'll be watching with interest.
Level5
Please put me on the THT list applause
gianni
what an awesome project!!!

please put me on the list for THT!
Boogie
I've updated the list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
Please add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. LED-man
7. djs
8. Eric the Red
9. Level5
mOBiTh
I'm def up for building an SMD one cool
aabbcc
Here, I'm adding the your lazy buggers name on the list for you, thats how much I want to see this as THT happen we're not worthy

I've updated the list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
Please add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. LED-man
7. djs
8. Eric the Red
9. Level5
10. gianni
Boogie
gianni
Sorry I missed that, it must have arrived while typing my post. d'oh!
aabbcc
thanks for adding. cool
Boogie
Thank you all for your feedback.
I really appreciate.

But..., as usually, there's a but
(not about going TH, seems that will have to happen)

But...
I arrived at the problem of the Control Panel Lay-out if I want to respect all feedback.

Below a screen dump of the current lay-out,
which I will further update with all of your input,
over the PCB size (green field) for a 84hp x 5U unit.

Even moving to 45mm sliders is not going to get everything clean on the green surface.

Which appraoch would you guys do or prefer ?
Given the fact that it has to be well accessible for live performance, How would you modify the lay-out. Which type of knobs, circular ? slider ? diameter ? distance?

Wouldn't a panel with only round dials loose its overview?

On the other hand, appart from rearanging for better handling and less wrong dynamic live action, does it have to shrink ? (apologies to Starspawn, I like the idea of 5U anyhow).


Fitchie
Boogie wrote:
Below a screen dump of the current lay-out,
which I will further update with all of your input,
over the PCB size (green field) for a 84hp x 5U unit.

19" 5U is unmanageably large !
Do we really need the sliders ?
djs
Fitchie wrote:
Do we really need the sliders ?


Yes- we do smile

Just a thought on this, but given the size, wouldn't we want a larger case size for better heat dissipation?

Secondly- related to THC vs SMT, I think THC design is easier to trace problems. Also, if there's an issue with a bad component later on, it's easier to retrofit SMT to a THC board design than vice versa. But that's just me smile
Boogie
To make it more easy or...difficult ?

The screendump below shows 3 form factors.
    Dark Brown as Initially foreseen
    Green as PCB for 5U x 84 hp
    Dark Gray as TTSH Front Panel

Light gray is just the background with a grid raster

Panason
SlayerBadger!

I'll have to go with whatever is cheapest!

How much MIDI control are we talking?
devinw1
Lookin good!
Panason
I always prefer knobs for a synth module that will be standing upright facing forward (instead of flat on the desk). Moving sliders accurately on those is awkward....
I hope coloured buttons like the original will be included!

I have a good tech guy in my area that can build this for me ... eventually Guinness ftw!

tobb wrote:
You should consider swapping the two controller rows,so that the osc and filter controls are at the lower side (closer to the wrist-rest) it will be much pleasing when tweaking the synth for a long time...


Yes.
tobb
I would step away from the Jupiter 8 colors (that orange) and definitely use another name then 'JPTR 8',maybe take a look at the Roland MPG-80 colors..the different colors looks great on a large panel,but with all those collor switches on top its getting a bit charged in such small surface.

With all the effort you put into this large project and have a name like 'JPTR 8' printed on the panel,its just looks cheap imo,it deserves better then that.

Use a new original name to put your big project in the spotlight..

Also take count that if you use a standard pre-painted black 19'' rack enclosure for the cards its best to have the front of your desktop also in black so it match and will save cost not to have a full custom painted rack enclosure.

tobb
Boogie wrote:
Which type of knobs, circular ? slider ? diameter ? distance?


For the FM amount between vco's a rotating knob is better ,you can simply adjust much easier narrow tweaks (on JP-8 = fader)
fredp
This project is great!!!

please put me on the list for THT!
ashleym
Keep the colours. Whatever else you do this will keep a memorable part of the inspiration. Keep a mix of sliders and knobs. Envelopes are best suited to sliders. Having things like filter cut off and resonance on two sliders next to each other means you can tweak both with one hand. On stage it’s a lot easier to see where w slider is or feel where a pointed knob is that it is to look for a line on a knob.

I like the divide of signal path on the top row and modulation on the bottom row. Your graphics give it a very SH101 turbo look- that’s a good thing. Yes it should be full sized. Play a real JP8 any you’ll understand.
Revok
Boogie wrote:

Which appraoch would you guys do or prefer ?
Given the fact that it has to be well accessible for live performance, How would you modify the lay-out. Which type of knobs, circular ? slider ? diameter ? distance?

Wouldn't a panel with only round dials loose its overview?

On the other hand, appart from rearanging for better handling and less wrong dynamic live action, does it have to shrink ? (apologies to Starspawn, I like the idea of 5U anyhow).

The sliders are a must. I think the panel you originally proposed looks excellent. Making it smaller seems silly to me.
Boogie
I quickly read all your replies.
Thank you for all this valuable input.

I will need a bit of time to work it out in CAD.
When I do so, I'll highlight what I've been able to keep, and what not.

Pls keep sending your remarks, suggestions, etc...

Updated the Through Hole preference list
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
Please add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. LED-man
7. djs
8. Eric the Red
9. Level5
10. gianni
11. fredp
Panason
For me the layout is not as important as the price. Seem to me that making it as a panel with a remote programmer would be more expensive?

Faders, knobs whatever is cheaper! This must be a very complex and difficult project and I don't want to make it harder for you.

I tend to think that sliders are more likely to fail because of dust going in, but I don't know enough about that.

The important stuff for me is:
-Sound. The basic fatness and richness of the original should be there but if we can have something extra such as a more advanced oscillator, that would be great. I'd appreciate being able to get away from the classic sounds.
-Price. For a 4-voice SMD kit I'd want it to be no more than €800, depending on MIDI implementation:
-MIDI Control: Program changes and MIDI CC control of :
-LFO rate (with MIDI clock sync ideally)
-Oscillator mod parameters (incl. PWM)
-Cutoff for both VCFs
-Filter envelope attack and decay
-Filter mod depth

I'm in the market for a polysynth... what is your approximate time frame here? weeks or months?
grenert
I love the original layout. I would not want to compromise function to fit a certain size. You're designing a synth inspired by one of the biggest and baddest out there. It's going to be big! If making a standalone unit, there's no reason to be constrained by rack dimensions.

Maybe the sliders could have a shorter throw? Also, have you compared your proposed horizontal and vertical spacing to other synths out there? Maybe you've been too generous with it. I definitely hope you keep the sliders! thumbs up
medbot
Panason wrote:
For me the layout is not as important as the price. Seem to me that making it as a panel with a remote programmer would be more expensive?

Faders, knobs whatever is cheaper! This must be a very complex and difficult project and I don't want to make it harder for you.

I tend to think that sliders are more likely to fail because of dust going in, but I don't know enough about that.

The important stuff for me is:
-Sound. The basic fatness and richness of the original should be there but if we can have something extra such as a more advanced oscillator, that would be great. I'd appreciate being able to get away from the classic sounds.
-Price. For a 4-voice SMD kit I'd want it to be no more than €800, depending on MIDI implementation:
-MIDI Control: Program changes and MIDI CC control of :
-LFO rate (with MIDI clock sync ideally)
-Oscillator mod parameters (incl. PWM)
-Cutoff for both VCFs
-Filter envelope attack and decay
-Filter mod depth

I'm in the market for a polysynth... what is your approximate time frame here? weeks or months?


rofl. This guy.

I agree with the people saying to go big. This is a Mt. Rushmore synth, give it the space it deserves. I say keep the original color scheme, too. It'd be like a Minimoog without wood. hihi Good luck with the project, you've got your work cut out for you!
Panason
medbot wrote:


rofl. This guy.


What's up, cowboy?
medbot
Panason wrote:


What's up, cowboy?


Just having a laugh at you looking at a thread for a DIY replica of a classic polysynth and saying "but can you take half of what makes it special and change it because I'm tired of the iconic sounds from this iconic synth. Also add full MIDI control and be sure it's less than half the price of similarly-featured mass-market production synths. And can you have it done next week? Yee-haw"

w00t
Eric the Red
Do all interface components need to be on one PCB? Or can you do one for each row?

-Eric
mangros
medbot wrote:

Just having a laugh at you looking at a thread for a DIY replica of a classic polysynth and saying "but can you take half of what makes it special and change it because I'm tired of the iconic sounds from this iconic synth. Also add full MIDI control and be sure it's less than half the price of similarly-featured mass-market production synths. And can you have it done next week? Yee-haw"

w00t


hihi

I'd be happy with bare SMD boards - populated boards will be a bit like putting together a PC rather than building something...
StillNotWorking
Panason wrote:
For me the layout is not as important as the price. Seem to me that making it as a panel with a remote programmer would be more expensive?

Mostly course you need two chassis
Panason wrote:

Faders, knobs whatever is cheaper! This must be a very complex and difficult project and I don't want to make it harder for you.

Rotary pots wins by far. Not only the component itself are cheeper but chassis and PCB are way more cost effective doe to size and tooling.
Panason wrote:

I tend to think that sliders are more likely to fail because of dust going in, but I don't know enough about that.

True, and sliders are very fragile compared to a 6mm pot shaft.

Personally I'm not a big fan of sliders other than long travel version on mixing desks. I find it harder to do accurate small increment with them as they have a tendency to early on start to drag and hang. Althought visually they 'can' give you a quick overview over current settings on non presets synths.
Panason
medbot wrote:


Just having a laugh at you looking at a thread for a DIY replica of a classic polysynth and saying "but can you take half of what makes it special and change it because I'm tired of the iconic sounds from this iconic synth. Also add full MIDI control and be sure it's less than half the price of similarly-featured mass-market production synths. And can you have it done next week? Yee-haw"

w00t


Well you can laugh at something else, because I am not asking for the kit to be released when I want it- I was asking what the time frame was. Maybe the enclosure will take longer. It's not for anyone to demand it ASAP. It'll be ready when it's ready. If it takes too long for me I'm sure someone else will buy it instead...

I hope that's clear.

Also, it has been mentioned that this project is not a strict replica and will have more than the original. Others have already suggested things that are different from the Jupiter 8. I think the lack of a keyboard is a pretty big one...

I am not asking for anything, just giving feedback from my POV.
djs
To be honest, I can see this working out "both" ways...

My understanding of the design (wrong?) is that there's already several pcbs involved..

1. voice card board(s)
2. backplane - for voice cards, voice allocation, etc.
3. Front panel (interface)

plus the case.

So Boogie makes what he wants, but other people could design a different front panel pcb and different panel/case. This is presuming that the front panel pcb would interface with the backplane in as standard way.
Boogie
Hello all,

great to see so much feedback.

I appologise for not having replied to everything yet, but I will do that maybe tomorrow evening or otherwise as from Thursday.
Right now I'm finalysing the assembly of the Clap'a'Trap 's finale design.
I prefer to have assembled it before sending out the kits.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2952362#2952362

One thing is clear,
I'm not going to be able to please all.

I will analyse all of your input and then take a decission, starting my final lay-out.
I will publish that one again for review, or eventually still add some small features I overlooked, but from there on, changes will be limited.


Just 1 quick reply as the last post is immediate above this post's entry window.

Yes, multiple boards
-motherboard holding
    -8 voice boards
    -one processor board

-Front panel, probably one big PCB

Front panel connection to motherboard will end up as shielded twisted pair.

Further,
the motherboard is holding the DAC's, the S&H, Noise Source, Coarse power supply, etc...
tobb
Quote:


True, and sliders are very fragile compared to a 6mm pot shaft.


It depends on the brand/type of the pots..

For example all 9mm Alpha pots used now on many euro modules,if the start to crash you can't clean/spray them because they are sealed idem with most other pcb top mount pots on the market,you are forced to replace the pot!

While quasi all faders can be cleaned...
StillNotWorking
tobb wrote:
Quote:


True, and sliders are very fragile compared to a 6mm pot shaft.


It depends on the brand/type of the pots..

For example all 9mm Alpha pots used now on many euro modules,if the start to crash you can't clean/spray them because they are sealed idem with most other pcb top mount pots on the market,you are forced to replace the pot!

While quasi all faders can be cleaned...

Good point. To my knowledge the small Alphas are preferred course people like the torque they have. But one can have 9mm pots with longer life expectancy (100.000 cycles) for not much more money. There is also extra cost involved servicing sliders rather than replacing a 3$ part.
tobb
StillNotWorking wrote:
To my knowledge the small Alphas are preferred course people like the torque they have.


No,its because its the pot-pattern used on most diy pcb's,and they line up with the jack height/front-panel assembly..
Boogie
Hello all,
Thank you for your valuable feedback !

Apologies for the long post, but it’s a summary of all replies with an overall answer to them.
I hope I’ve not forgotten anyone. If so, pls leave me a PM and I’ll correct.

In my conclusions at the bottom of this post,
I’ve replied to the questions/remarks/opinions as posted and summarized below.
I’ve made this summary as for me to be used as a guide-line for my reply.

Informative:
It's name: JPTR 8 , let’s call that the working name.
The new name will only be discussed with those ‘en petite comitee’
The same goes for the color scheme.

I'll post a new overall design file over the next days.
If anyone would like to provide additional info/considerations/feelings...
pls. do so. All feedback always welcome.


Revok Stand alone is my preference. Normally I'm against pre-populated boards but for a project of this size I'm okay with it
aabbcc Also I'd prefer it as a standalone without keyboard
tobb Through Hole cards and rack version + desktop control panel + possibility to control X 8-voice racks with the single control panel, so we can layer 2-3 sounds at 8-voice
Fitchie I slightly prefer a 19" rack, but also happy with a stand alone device.
maximee Stand alone or 19” for me, too. Looking very promising!
Starspawn Depending on what offers more controls either standalone or rack is good.
Jaytee Through hole and standalone would be my preference
LED-man THT please, 4 Layer pcb
Panason 4 voice 19# would be nice, Resonant HPF pleeeeease?
Starspawn What about squeezing into a 5U panel that could be both racked or standalone?
djs How deep are the voice cards?
tobb Btw another thing i forgot to tell you is the patch-bay section on the panel if you plan to do this kind of design its better to put this large taste-area in the middle of the panel.
Pls check the section: to be discussed
mOBiTh I'm def up for building an SMD one
aabbcc thats how much I want to see this as THT happen
djs it's easier to retrofit SMT to a THC board design than vice versa. But that's just me
Panason I'll have to go with whatever is cheapest! How much MIDI control are we talking?
devinw1 Lookin good!
Panason I hope colored buttons like the original will be included!
tobb I would step away from the Jupiter 8 colors (that orange) and definitely use another name then 'JPTR 8
Use a new original name to put your big project in the spotlight..
Also take count that if you use a standard pre-painted black 19'' rack enclosure for the cards its best to have the front of your desktop also in black so it match and will save cost not to have a full custom painted rack enclosure.
tobb For the FM amount between vco's a rotating knob is better ,you can simply adjust much easier narrow tweaks
ashleym Keep the colours, Keep a mix of sliders and knobs, Envelopes are best suited to sliders
Revok The sliders are a must. I think the panel you originally proposed looks excellent. Making it smaller seems silly to me.
Panason
-MIDI Control: Program changes and MIDI CC control of :
-LFO rate (with MIDI clock sync ideally)
-Oscillator mod parameters (incl. PWM)
-Cutoff for both VCFs
-Filter envelope attack and decay
-Filter mod depth
Pls check the section: to be discussed
grenert I love the original layout. I would not want to compromise function to fit a certain size. You're designing a synth inspired by one of the biggest and baddest out there. It's going to be big! If making a standalone unit, there's no reason to be constrained by rack dimensions.
Maybe the sliders could have a shorter throw?
medbot give it the space it deserves. I say keep the original color scheme, too.
Eric the Red Do all interface components need to be on one PCB? Or can you do one for each row?
mangros 'd be happy with bare SMD boards - populated boards will be a bit like putting together a PC rather than building something...
StillNotWorking Personally I'm not a big fan of sliders other than long travel version on mixing desks, Althought visually they 'can' give you a quick overview over current settings on non presets synths.
Panason it has been mentioned that this project is not a strict replica and will have more than the original, I think the lack of a keyboard is a pretty big one...
djs My understanding of the design (wrong?) is that there's already several pcbs involved

See further below for the topics that need further discussion.
Conclusions:
It will most probably end up to be :
- DIY definable number of voices
- Ready built 8 voices
- MIDI input, no keyboard
- Table top
- Stand alone height at the back side about 80 mm, at the front about 35mm angle = 10deg
- Both sliders and turning knobs
- TH for DIY
- SMD for ready built (and maybe some kits)
- 4 layer PCBs for voice and processor
- HPF first and second order selectable with resonance
- With the price it has to have, too many uncertainties right now to provide a price setting
- Visual performing
- FM modulation by circular knob
- Envelope will have sliders
- Slider length foreseen to be 45 mm
- Sufficiently large, but not too large, for good access and controlability
- One single PCB for the control panel
- Time frame for total completion of a stand alone and kit about 5-6 months
- Proto Osc same functions, next evaluation version extended oscillator functions
- Some more functions compared to the original
Optional
- multi unit control for layering
What it’s not going to be on short term :
- 5U 19” Surface is too small to dynamically handle all functions in live performance.
- 4 voice 19” Not for now but one never knows
To be further discussed
- Patch-bay section on the panel
- color scheme
- knobs colors and feel
- MIDI detailed function
- ... and all other things you would like to discuss
djs
I’m liking the sound of this..can’t wait to see where it goes!
LED-man
@boogie: please remove me from the list, thx
Boogie
@ Led-man
done.

Updated the Through Hole preference list
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. -
7. djs
8. Eric the Red
9. Level5
10. gianni
11. fredp
Check Mate
I'd like to see a through hole version for DIY as well!
StillNotWorking
What if the unit only includes voiceboards and patch memory, — no controls other than high speed data port using standard MIDI protocol for easy integration with new or existing (simple clock division) control surfaces (read tablet/computer etc)?

In principle how Roland did the MKS-80 generation.
Boogie
Updated the Through Hole preference list
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. fredp



StillNotWorking
Quote:
What if the unit only includes voiceboards and patch memory, — no controls other than high speed data port using standard MIDI protocol for easy integration with new or existing (simple clock division) control surfaces (read tablet/computer etc)?
This is very close to the expantion module. So there's a fair chance it comes. But first the basics. Guinness ftw!
Boogie
The screendump below gives an idea about the outline.

Outside dimentions are 500 x 315 mm or 19.7" x 12.4"

Colors and knobs to be changed as well as the profile side plates will slightly change.

All comments welcome.

Boogie
Hello all,

after a couple of days of re layouting,
I think I'm getting closer to a final lay-out and format.
Not everything is named yet,
as well as there are more functions included compared to the original.

All ideas and feedback welcome.

tobb
Ah! starts too look awesome thumbs up

Try to lower a bit all the switches-block,are too glued to the orange line

Hey,there is room in the right corner for an analog Juno 60 like chorus... wink

Or if not ,spread out a bit the space between both adsr faders so you can stretch the space between the knobs that or on top of adsr two (they are way to close together),but not to much because otherwise its less pleasing to control adsr fader setting on the fly with one hand in live performance..
(EDIT,hmm no space is already far spreaded enough,just stretch a bit the space between the knobs)

I still missing 3 switches for local/ext.1/ext. mute/enable,when editing layered sounds its must have to isolate the layer (controlling an electronic relais at the synth output or disable the midi key control to that layer)

Sepparate all other faders grafics like on the adsr with a small space (but not taking over the 'V' format like those from the adsr,this will give a more overall refined enhancement of the panel

Try also to shift the whole top adsrlfo block to the right,this way you could re-arrange the system section...and have room for more system/switches

If you cut the symmetry in the vco knob block section the whole panel might look beter (to test),vco 1/2 lower both,waveform knobs ,shift xmod a bit offset,to the right,shift sync,sepperation line between vco's staircase like
Check Mate
Can you pleasae rempve me from the list?
Thanks and sorry for the trouble!
Boogie
Check Mate
done
Boogie
And here are some dimentions.

As always, all feedback welcome.


Arnoid
A through hole jupiter 8 clone would be great hihi
Sinamsis
Commenting mainly to subscribe, looks great!
djs
This is shaping up to be very nice.

Question- do you intend for this to be an ongoing project? Meaning, i can buy two voice boards to start out with, and add more later on?

Also, when do you plan on releasing something for sale?
Fitchie
Boogie wrote:

Oh yes !!!
This is p*rn :-)
mckenic
I dont think I could afford this all in one go (much as I want to) - but like others, commenting so I can subscribe and see where this goes...

Brilliant stuff so far - more power to you!
Boogie
Arnoid
Quote:
A through hole jupiter 8 clone would be great hihi
Noted.

djs
Quote:
This is shaping up to be very nice.
Thank you !

Quote:
Question- do you intend for this to be an ongoing project? Meaning, i can buy two voice boards to start out with, and add more later on?
Absolutely, though the voice boards need to be controlled.

Quote:
Also, when do you plan on releasing something for sale?
I expect I would need some 5-6 months to finish it. We'll see where the project stands after the season holidays. I think that's a good moment to re-estimate the time frame.

mckenic
Quote:
I dont think I could afford this all in one go (much as I want to)
You don't have to buy 8 voices at once. You can add some over time.
Quote:
Brilliant stuff so far - more power to you!
Thank you !
Panason
Looking good and 584mmm wide should keep the "make it big" crowd happy meh

I look forward to checking out the MIDI spec ... hyper
SmartBits
Boogie wrote:
It's name: JPTR 8 , let’s call that the working name.
The new name will only be discussed with those ‘en petite comitee’

Maybe you could use a name of one of Jupiters moons? As there are 79 there are plenty to choose from.

I admire this project very much, unfortunately no time (or room) atm, otherwise I would have jumped onboard immediately. Keep up the good work!
djs
You could call it Zeus? Although it might confuse the Eurorack people.
Fitchie
To put in my two-penny worth:
    Jupiter also known as Jove is the god of the sky and thunder.
    or
    The Romans regarded Jupiter as the equivalent of the Greek Zeus.
flts
Jove is already a Jup-6 filter module, so the danger for mixup is quite big: http://system80.net/product/jove/

(also, regarding the moons, "Io" is a MIDI retrofit for Jupiter-4)
Sunshine Jones
I'm so excited about this it's just silly...
Can't wait!
devinw1
This is really starting to look great!

I still think it would be cool as hell to do it as a keyboard too, but the desktop unit is looking really good.
djs
devinw1 wrote:
I still think it would be cool as hell to do it as a keyboard too,.


I'm guessing that having it midi enabled with a 3rd party keyboard is a lot less complex (and cheaper) than building a keyboard into it. Personally, I like the desktop version for this reason.
tron23
+1 for keyboardless Guinness ftw!
boops
I'd like to see a through hole version for DIY as well!

Great project/great work !
Eric the Red
For the TH DIY version, is it going to need any weird obscure components? I have about 50 projects in my backlog and I a man currently putting together a big ass parts order for all of them. Pretty much getting resistors and caps of all shapes, sizes' etc.. and ordering a lot of extra for future projects.

Just wondering if there’s anything weird on the parts list.

Thanks!!
LED-man
From my experience it’s better to source parts for 8 voicecards and not only for 2-4 and later for the others.
It’s important to have the same components on all cards, ideally from the same batch.
The product lifecycle is short on many components and you can not order the same BOM one or 2 years later. (Especially capacitors)
Little changes can affect the sound of the voices.
And it’s cheaper to order higher quantities of parts.
(80 resistors are more expensive than 100, it’s the same on the most other parts)
Chrutil
Great project.
Definitely put my name down for DIY voice cards! 8 or possibly 16.
Throughhole is ok, but I don't mind if they are SMD.
I do prefer sourcing and populating myself though.
Eric the Red
LED-man wrote:
From my experience it’s better to source parts for 8 voicecards and not only for 2-4 and later for the others.
It’s important to have the same components on all cards, ideally from the same batch.
The product lifecycle is short on many components and you can not order the same BOM one or 2 years later. (Especially capacitors)
Little changes can affect the sound of the voices.
And it’s cheaper to order higher quantities of parts.
(80 resistors are more expensive than 100, it’s the same on the most other parts)


When I order parts, I always get an excessive amount. Resistors in minimum batches of 100, and an excessive amount of extras, etc...
devinw1
Put me on the DIY through hole preference list as well.
peloazul
Fascinating!
CliffordMilk
This is looking great. Please put me down for TH versions.
peloazul
I would be interested in this as DIY - either THT or SMT is fine with me.
magman
I’m interested in this also, with TH being my preference.

Regards

Magman
amir
I am interested in this also. Surface mount would be best, cheaper, faster easier to build. After the TTSH, I never want to cut that many resistor legs ever again and I am assuming there will be a ton more here with each voice card.
Boogie
Hello all,

Thank you for your numerous reactions and heads-up, as well as for the potential names.

I’ve updated the list of TH interested people.
When asking for being added to the the list, pls do not ask later to be removed.
Afterall, it’s only a list about being interested in a TH version.

Updated the Through Hole preference list
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman

@devinw1
Quote:
I still think it would be cool as hell to do it as a keyboard too
That was the initial idea. For now it will be without keyboard, but as this is not supposed to be my last project… who knows what the future will bring.
makhho
@boogie
following this project!
put me down for interest in a TH version.

+1 for keyboard version
Boogie
I see something went wrong with my previous post.
Here's the full version.


Hello all,
Thank you for your numerous reactions, and heads-up as well as for the potential names.
I’ve updated the list of TH interested people.
Pls do not ask to be removed after first asking to be added.
Afterall, it’s only a list about being interested in a TH version.

Updated the Through Hole preference list
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho


@devinw1
Quote:
I still think it would be cool as hell to do it as a keyboard too
That was the initial idea. For now it will be without keyboard, but as this is not supposed to be my last project… who knows what the future will bring.
Boogie
I see something went wrong with my previous post.
Here's the full version.


Hello all,
Thank you for your numerous reactions, and heads-up as well as for the potential names.
I’ve updated the list of TH interested people.
Pls do not ask to be removed after first asking to be added.
Afterall, it’s only a list about being interested in a TH version.

Updated the Through Hole preference list
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho


@devinw1
Quote:
I still think it would be cool as hell to do it as a keyboard too
That was the initial idea. For now it will be without keyboard, but as this is not supposed to be my last project… who knows what the future will bring.

@Eric the Red
Quote:
Just wondering if there’s anything weird on the parts list.
Designing it in SMD and looking for availability, made me select new components with likewise characteristics as used in the original. So, apart from some advanced DACs and opamps, there are no exotic or last time buy components used.


@Chrutil
Quote:
Definitely put my name down for DIY voice cards! 8 or possibly 16.
WOW…sounds not only great but also BIG

@amir
Quote:
Surface mount would be best, cheaper, faster easier to build
I will most probably provide a TH unpopulated version and a SMD populated version.
Quote:
After the TTSH, I never want to cut that many resistor legs ever again and I am assuming there will be a ton more here with each voice card.
Well, for now there are some 351 components on the voice board. The SMD motherboard will end up around 220 and then there’s still the control panel. That will bring us somewhere around a total of 3.300 components.

For now, I will stop focusing on lay-out and work further on the hardware basic and optional stuff.
I will drop some progress info along the road, so pls. check back regular if you want to stay up to date with the progress.
In the mean time, I’ve been informed my first version voice board PCBs have left the PCB manufacturer plant. So, I’m looking forward to assemble and debug the first voice boards.

RadekTymecki
omg! what could be expected price?
KlangGenerator
@Boogie: I am also interested in a TH version. Please put me on the list.
tobb
PS: i would switch the position of the HP order switch and the two faders = xtra space when turning the mixer knobs and all filters faders are together = faster one hand handling in live performence.
4floorsofwhores
Could I go on the TH list? cheers
Boogie
tobb
of course, thank you for that feedback.

RadekTymecki
good question, but it's a bit difficult to answer in the current phase of progress.

updated TH list.
Updated the Through Hole preference list
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
Portabella
SMD is better for me.. cheaper too!
YannickD
just wanted to express my interest. SMD is better for me.
nidas
I´m interested in a TH - add me to the list
Sunshine Jones
I'm very interested. I wouldn't mind building SMD, I kinda get a thrill when those little grains of sand magically leap into place. Will that be an option?

Looks like it's either pre built or DIY TH?
D33K
I realize I'm new to mw and may not have the necessary street cred, but I'd be interested in building a TH kit
Boogie
@D33K
Welcome Rockin' Banana! and lots of fun here.
Quote:
I realize I'm new to mw and may not have the necessary street cred, but I'd be interested in building a TH kit
I'll add you to the list. Wouldn't know why not. Mr. Green

@Sunshine Jones
Quote:
I'm very interested. I wouldn't mind building SMD, I kinda get a thrill when those little grains of sand magically leap into place. Will that be an option?
Looks like it's either pre built or DIY TH?
Well, the way it's going is a TH DIY and a Voice/Processor/MainBoard Populated SMD version with TH Control Panel.
Nevertheless, while ordering the SMD PCBs, some set's can always be ordered extra and not being SMD populated.
So, that's an option.


Updated the Through Hole preference list
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
Boogie
Hello all,

below a picture of the first assembled Voice Board.
Above the assembly is the bare board.

Let's see how far I can get by the end of the weekend.

Fitchie
Nice soldering job !
hox3d
Woaw.

It's densely populated.

Looking forward to see where this goes!
Eric the Red
I am so looking forward to building this!

-Eric
muffdiver
Just in time for Jupiter’s transit through Sag...

Color me interested!

SMD (0805) preferred but TH is fine.
DisappearHere
I'd potentially be interested in an SMD version. Looks great so far.
Chrutil
Great soldering job and beautiful board.
I would personally much rather diy this one rather than TH, but beggars can't be choosers.
Curious how the voice card connects to the host/motherboard?
Are there smd headers underneath perhaps?
sduck
So I missed a page or 3 - are there 8 of those voice cards? Or just one?

I would be interested, through hole or smt, slight preference for through hole.
Boogie
Thank you all for your wonderfull feedback Chugging Beers

muffdiver
Quote:
SMD (0805) preferred but TH is fine.
Current design is 0603, so I guess the chance for a 0805 is as good as none...
Nevertheless, TH will be created !

Chrutil
Quote:
Great soldering job and beautiful board.
Thanks !
Quote:
Curious how the voice card connects to the host/motherboard?
Are there smd headers underneath perhaps?
Yes. Picture from very first post:


sduck
Quote:
are there 8 of those voice cards? Or just one?

For now there are 8.
But for the stand-alone, I'm considdering to go to two layers of PCBs.
The top one being the control panel and the next layer the voice boards, amplifier, processors, etc... I haven't taken a decision yet.

Updated the preference list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole od SMD version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

TH
1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
23. muffdiver
24. Chrutil
25. sduck

SMD
1. Revok
2. grenert
3. Starspawn
4. mOBiTh
5. mangros
6. Chrutil
7. peloazul
8. amir
9. Portabella
10. YannickD
11. muffdiver
12. DisappearHere
revtor
I’m really wondering if the through hole do it yourself board would end up any cheaper than the pre-soldered surface mount? I kind of doubt it... plus 3x the size. Plus days of work. I don’t see any advantage?
groove
I'd be happy with either SMD or TH ... if I had to choose, I guess I'd go with SMD.
devinw1
Hot damn, that's a dense and lovely board!

BTW, I prefer thru hole because it's easier to handle the parts and see what's going on...haha. And I really like DIP chips in sockets. Nice and meaty.
ST.P
Yes, i am in for a TH - Version Guinness ftw!
Chrutil
Boogie wrote:

Chrutil
Quote:
Curious how the voice card connects to the host/motherboard?
Are there smd headers underneath perhaps?
Yes. Picture from very first post:




Ah goodie. Just one comment then, on the rendering it would be tricky to get to the calibration trimmers when all boards are populated.
I would suggest using something like this:

instead of this:


Looks great so far!
duff
I’d probably be interested in a DIY voice board option, but as others have said I’d rather this was SMD (preferably 805 over 603) than TH.
Boogie
Chrutil
Quote:
I would suggest using something like this:

instead of this:
You're showing twice the same, the op one is just put on its side.
But I think I know what you mean, good idea btw.
Something like this:



Quote:
hox3dWoaw. It's densely populated.

Quote:
devinw1Hot damn, that's a dense and lovely board!

Top side 341 components on 40.6 cm2
Bottom side 10 more components incl 3 connectors

revtor
Quote:
I’m really wondering if the through hole do it yourself board would end up any cheaper than the pre-soldered surface mount.

I agree with this on component base. Though due to the fixed costs on machine programming, batch cost, setup cost,...the SMD boards probably end up more expensive. But then only when one doesn't have to pay for his own hours in assembbling the thing.

duff
Quote:
preferably 805 over 603

I have to dissapoint you guys here.
Version 1) SMD ==> 0603
Version 2) TH

Updated the preference list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole od SMD version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

TH
1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
23. muffdiver
24. Chrutil
25. sduck
26. devinw1
27. ST.P

SMD
1. Revok
2. grenert
3. Starspawn
4. mOBiTh
5. mangros
6. Chrutil
7. peloazul
8. amir
9. Portabella
10. YannickD
11. muffdiver
12. DisappearHere
13. groove
14. duff
NekoNeko
Wow this looks great.

Please count me in for through hole version. thumbs up
Boogie
Here are some first sounds.
The file contains both samples from the original Jupiter 8 and from the clone.
Edited: With thanks to guy who provided the Jupiter 8 samples. Chugging Beers
These are single oscillator compares.
Something has gone wrong with the upload to SoundCloud.
Somehow lot's of noise have been introduced in the whole file. I'll update the file later today. Edited: better sounds in post below
[s]http://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/originalvsclonec1c4[/s]

And here are some detailled wave compares


Jaytee
revtor wrote:
I’m really wondering if the through hole do it yourself board would end up any cheaper than the pre-soldered surface mount? I kind of doubt it... plus 3x the size. Plus days of work. I don’t see any advantage?


Some of us *like* the days of work. Nothing against those folks who want the prepopulated SMT boards, but I’m here because I want to...do it myself. wink
tobb
looks/sounds good! thumbs up
Boogie
Here's some more audio.
No post processing, just pure voice board.
All sounds two oscillators, non synced.
First some notes with VCO1 and VCO2 at same note.
Then VCO2 detuning 1 quint up.
Some sequences, playing with the filter.
VCO2 tuning back to no transpose.
Paraphonic playing two different notes through one voice board.
Thus 1 VCO per note.
[s]http://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/somequintsandparaphonic[/s]
Boogie
Updated the preference list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole od SMD version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

TH
1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
23. muffdiver
24. Chrutil
25. sduck
26. devinw1
27. ST.P
28. NekoNeko

SMD
1. Revok
2. grenert
3. Starspawn
4. mOBiTh
5. mangros
6. Chrutil
7. peloazul
8. amir
9. Portabella
10. YannickD
11. muffdiver
12. DisappearHere
13. groove
14. duff
Boogie
Some single voice pads.
Oscillators are beautiful tracking CV without sync.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/somesinglevoicepads[/s]
Sunshine Jones
This is getting exciting...

Can't decide about TH or SMD, pre built or DIY without seeing what it will cost (artist,) and involve (enthusiast,) but the prospect is just thrilling...

I'm so very interested in this.
boops
Imho,dont forget that the charm of the big analog synth ,obx,P5. Cs Jp that i use and well listened, is that the voices are not always perfected calibrated ,filter ,sometime light detune,in mono or polymode,Roland jp synths are often stable thought
when we will listen all the voices of this clone together,we will be surprise ,i hope in the good way
Boogie
@boops
Quote:
that the voices are not always perfected calibrated

That should also be with this design.
Jupiter8 is using a 12 bit (I believe) Control Voltage, so the smallest step is some 4 cents up and 4 cents down. This is where the nice oscillator interference comes from.
I will be using a 16 DAC for the controll voltages, but this can be decreased by software.
I absolutely understand the oscillator fading is something one wants, so of course it should be in there. Thus 8 voices should sound as a chorus of 16 oscillators. cool Let's find out when I'm getting there.
StillNotWorking
Which is already several bits better precision than we can expect to get from the control surface using short travel faders and small rotary knobs. It's all about developing smoothing tables pleasant to the ear. Maybe voices should not share these tables but rather select a random table from multiple?
flts
StillNotWorking wrote:
Which is already several bits better precision than we can expect to get from the control surface using short travel faders and small rotary knobs.


Bear in mind the most critical CV output accuracy-wise is still note pitch, and that's not normally going to be adjusted with 8 short-travel faders or rotary knobs, but by pressing keys on a MIDI keyboard (which can be full-size, half-size, esoteric harmonica layout, or whatever you want). In case of playing steady pitch, I don't think smoothing tables have much to do with the matter.
StillNotWorking
flts wrote:
StillNotWorking wrote:
Which is already several bits better precision than we can expect to get from the control surface using short travel faders and small rotary knobs.

Bear in mind the most critical CV output accuracy-wise is still note pitch, and that's not normally going to be adjusted with 8 short-travel faders or rotary knobs, but by pressing keys on a MIDI keyboard (which can be full-size, half-size, esoteric harmonica layout, or whatever you want). In case of playing steady pitch, I don't think smoothing tables have much to do with the matter.

True, but static values despite being off to emulate 12bit using what I suspect is more rigid and optimised S&H (mutiple output DAC) do not emulate vintage digital control — hence the suggestion using multiple smoothing tables — and not only for pitch.
flts
^- Yep, that's a good point / clarification, hadn't thought of it that way.
tobb
Boogie wrote:
@boops
Quote:
that the voices are not always perfected calibrated

That should also be with this design.
Jupiter8 is using a 12 bit (I believe) Control Voltage, so the smallest step is some 4 cents up and 4 cents down. This is where the nice oscillator interference comes from.
I will be using a 16 DAC for the controll voltages, but this can be decreased by software.
I absolutely understand the oscillator fading is something one wants, so of course it should be in there. Thus 8 voices should sound as a chorus of 16 oscillators. cool Let's find out when I'm getting there.


I have a 12bit and a 14 bit Jupiter,the 12bit Jupiter is not so nice to tweak,you can't do smooth filter sweeps,also its problematic to fine tune FM depth.

So it definitely need to have 14 bit resolution!!

PS: The shifts between voices that can be noticed on vintage synths and on the Jupiter 8 is making a big difference when you turn up the Q

The shifting is making the synth then more 'singing',if all the voices are to perfect in line you get a boosted not ear pleasing effect,this is what happens in VST synths for example when you push up the Q,also quasi all modern analogs suffer from this 'problem'.
Boogie
Quote myself
Quote:

Jupiter8 is using a 12 bit (I believe) Control Voltage, so the smallest step is some 4 cents up and 4 cents down.
I will be using a 16 DAC for the controll voltages, but this can be decreased by software.

Correction:
Jupiter8 is using a 12 bit (I believe) Control Voltage, so the smallest step is some 3 cents up and 3 cents down for 10 octaves
Update:
In this design I will be using a 16 bit DAC for the VCO controll voltages.
The sound files so far are using 12 bit resolution over 8 octaves for the VCO and filter frequency. that's a 2.5 cent resolution.

I'm running my midi decoder on a 12 bit analog system in which I use a potentiometer scaled to 201 steps, ranging -100 cents over zero up to +100 cents. That works pretty smooth for detuning. (end result is currently of course limited to 12 bit resolution)

StillNotWorking
Quote:
true, but static values despite being off to emulate 12bit using what I suspect is more rigid and optimised S&H (mutiple output DAC) do not emulate vintage digital control
I may miss understand what you mean, but this is exactly how the Jupiter 8 works, which is vintage.
Quote:
hence the suggestion using multiple smoothing tables — and not only for pitch
Good idea, didn't think of that yet. Guinness ftw!



tobb
Quote:
PS: The shifts between voices that can be noticed on vintage synths and on the Jupiter 8 is making a big difference when you turn up the Q
The shifting is making the synth then more 'singing',if all the voices are to perfect in line you get a boosted not ear pleasing effect,this is what happens in VST synths for example when you push up the Q,also quasi all modern analogs suffer from this 'problem'.
I will certainly keep this in mind when calibrating.
Boogie
here's a sample file of one voice board 2 VCO's free running
both VCO's are on the same voltage source.
No processor feedback.
Starting at C0 and ending at C9
[s]https://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/freerunningosc[/s]
StillNotWorking
Quote:
StillNotWorking
Quote:
true, but static values despite being off to emulate 12bit using what I suspect is more rigid and optimised S&H (mutiple output DAC) do not emulate vintage digital control
I may miss understand what you mean, but this is exactly how the Jupiter 8 works, which is vintage.

It might not even be all that important, but to clearify.
I've not studied J8, but most synths I've worked on from the period have single DAC with CMOS mux and multiple discrete S&H circuits. Accumulating some artefacts and temprature drift due to imperfection in propagation delay, pcb layout and lesser accuratcy from components used at the time. Modern multi output DAC's bypass many, if not all of these issues.
Boogie
StillNotWorking
Quote:
Modern multi output DAC's bypass many, if not all of these issues.
Well...
the good news is that it's not a 16 output DAC, but a 4 output DAC with lots of S&H's following it. So, pretty much like the original.
As I've not disclosed my setup apart from stating that it follows the original's block diagram, this one you couldn't know.
Nevertheless, I do appreciate your input as you do have a point here if I would have been using multi output DAC without S&H.
Turns out that a single DAC with S&H is way cheaper then using a DAC per analog signal.
Bottom line, I'm pretty much following the original's setup, though with newer, and better available, components.
LSuveg1
This looks amazing! Please mark me down for the TH version.
Sunshine Jones
I realize that I'm not on either of these lists. Please put me down for the TH version.
synthpriest
Sunshine Jones wrote:
I realize that I'm not on either of these lists. Please put me down for the TH version.


Same thoughts right here. If I have sufficient funds to get to the Jupiter train when its departure is announced I would be in for the SMD version. This project rocks btw. w00t
Boogie
Updated the preference list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole od SMD version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

TH
1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
23. muffdiver
24. Chrutil
25. sduck
26. devinw1
27. ST.P
28. NekoNeko
29. LSuveg1
30. Sunshine Jones

SMD
1. Revok
2. grenert
3. Starspawn
4. mOBiTh
5. mangros
6. Chrutil
7. peloazul
8. amir
9. Portabella
10. YannickD
11. muffdiver
12. DisappearHere
13. groove
14. duff
15. synthpriest
Branko
Put me down for a through hole version.
Boogie
Updated the preference list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole od SMD version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

TH
1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
23. muffdiver
24. Chrutil
25. sduck
26. devinw1
27. ST.P
28. NekoNeko
29. LSuveg1
30. Sunshine Jones
31. Branko

SMD
1. Revok
2. grenert
3. Starspawn
4. mOBiTh
5. mangros
6. Chrutil
7. peloazul
8. amir
9. Portabella
10. YannickD
11. muffdiver
12. DisappearHere
13. groove
14. duff
15. synthpriest
Boogie
And here's a preliminary lay-out of the user IF.

Eric the Red
nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo nanners Rockin' Banana! screaming goo yo
Boogie
A quick update on the User Interface PCB

dikkietrom
Boogie wrote:
StillNotWorking
Quote:
Modern multi output DAC's bypass many, if not all of these issues.
Well...
the good news is that it's not a 16 output DAC, but a 4 output DAC with lots of S&H's following it. So, pretty much like the original.
As I've not disclosed my setup apart from stating that it follows the original's block diagram, this one you couldn't know.
Nevertheless, I do appreciate your input as you do have a point here if I would have been using multi output DAC without S&H.
Turns out that a single DAC with S&H is way cheaper then using a DAC per analog signal.
Bottom line, I'm pretty much following the original's setup, though with newer, and better available, components.


All settings are 8 bit on a jupiter, key cv is either 12 or 14 bit. There is a settings dac per 4 voices and 1 key cv dac for all 8 voices. More bits means slower refresh rate of the sh. Depending on your MC it matters or not. If you like to stay close to the original I would be carefull with improvements. 16 bit would make it more precise, maybe too clean.
For settings more bits are ok I guess.

Btw I started a jupiter project the same day as you over here, it is in the air I guess wink I did not read everything, are the component specs somewhere in your post?
Boogie
dikkietrom

Quote:
are the component specs somewhere in your post?

Sorry, I do not intend to publish any component type numbers or specs untill ready for sale.

Quote:
If you like to stay close to the original I would be carefull with improvements.
True, but then that's the art of reverse engineering compared to copying. But I see that you also have the same idea as me confused , since you are also considdering to change the original ADSR with a digital approach.
Thank you for your concern, but I hope you listen to your own words as well.

For me,
Bottom line, I'm pretty much following the original's setup, though with newer, and better available, components.

Good luck with your project.
Boogie.
tobb
dikkietrom wrote:


All settings are 8 bit on a jupiter, key cv is either 12 or 14 bit. 16 bit would make it more precise, maybe too clean.
For settings more bits are ok I guess.


There is a difference in resolution also for the settings between the '12' and '14 bit' Jupiter versions.

Higher the panel resolution better it can be to tweak in sweet spots,not available on the '12 bit' Jupiter version.
dikkietrom
How can that be? This is the rev 2 module controller DAC. It changed from discrete resistors to an resistor array. It is 8 bit. The ram is 4 bit, if they changed it to 12 bit less memory would have been available.



dikkietrom
Boogie wrote:
dikkietrom

Quote:
are the component specs somewhere in your post?

Sorry, I do not intend to publish any component type numbers or specs untill ready for sale.

Quote:
If you like to stay close to the original I would be carefull with improvements.
True, but then that's the art of reverse engineering compared to copying. But I see that you also have the same idea as me confused , since you are also considdering to change the original ADSR with a digital approach.
Thank you for your concern, but I hope you listen to your own words as well.

For me,
Bottom line, I'm pretty much following the original's setup, though with newer, and better available, components.

Good luck with your project.
Boogie.


I thought you'd appreciate some feedback, I am not the enemy and not critiszing you.
Boogie
I must have missinterpreted your feedback.

Thank you for clarifying.

Indead, I think there's plenty of room in the world for several Jupiters in whatever configuration.
Though,
several MW members think different, if not in this thread, then by PM to me.
Must be jealousy.
Glad to hear you're not one of them.

Best of luck to your project.
Boogie.
tobb
dikkietrom wrote:
How can that be?


Because i own a 12 and 14 bit JP-8 and can hear a difference between the two,on one its more stepped then the other one.
StillNotWorking
tobb wrote:
dikkietrom wrote:
How can that be?


Because i own a 12 and 14 bit JP-8 and can hear a difference between the two,on one its more stepped then the other one.

That's what tables are for. Most parameters will have a sweet spot that is far from linear. Meaning a linear potentiometer will likely give you interesting sounds in a quarter or less of it travel range.

With the table one makes big paramter jumps in the region where there are litle changes in tone and use most of the bit resolution to even out the travel range for the pot so it performs interesting adjustments over all of its treavel range and thereby even out the stepping where the adjustment are more sensetive.
dikkietrom
tobb wrote:
dikkietrom wrote:
How can that be?


Because i own a 12 and 14 bit JP-8 and can hear a difference between the two,on one its more stepped then the other one.


That's either your mind playing tricks on you or something else going on but the 12>14 bit has no effect on any settings as I showed you. You say less stepped, which implies that you still hear a step so the difference must be marginal. Maybe they did something in the software for specific settings, your JP's are differently calibrated or just every JP is different anyways with all the 5% tolerance stuff inside.
gotama
Interested in SMD if this goes to a run.
Boogie
gotama
Absolutely, I'll add you to the list.
Boogie
StillNotWorking
Quote:
With the table one makes big paramter jumps in the region where there are litle changes in tone and use most of the bit resolution to even out the travel range for the pot so it performs interesting adjustments over all of its treavel range and thereby even out the stepping where the adjustment are more sensetive.
Absolutely correct proposal. I've solved this by using a non linear formula depending on the function. So even with a 10-12-14 slider or potentiometer digitizing, one can always calculate a non linear function and send the result to the DAC in whatever resolution.
Boogie
Updated the preference list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole od SMD version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

TH
1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
23. muffdiver
24. Chrutil
25. sduck
26. devinw1
27. ST.P
28. NekoNeko
29. LSuveg1
30. Sunshine Jones

SMD
1. Revok
2. grenert
3. Starspawn
4. mOBiTh
5. mangros
6. Chrutil
7. peloazul
8. amir
9. Portabella
10. YannickD
11. muffdiver
12. DisappearHere
13. groove
14. duff
15. synthpriest
16. gotama
tobb
dikkietrom wrote:
tobb wrote:
dikkietrom wrote:
How can that be?


Because i own a 12 and 14 bit JP-8 and can hear a difference between the two,on one its more stepped then the other one.


That's either your mind playing tricks on you or something else going on but the 12>14 bit has no effect on any settings as I showed you. You say less stepped, which implies that you still hear a step so the difference must be marginal. Maybe they did something in the software for specific settings, your JP's are differently calibrated or just every JP is different anyways with all the 5% tolerance stuff inside.


I say less stepped,yes you can hear perfect the difference in resolution between the two Jupiters when you boost the Q and tweak the cutoff fader pot.

I don't know,but its well known between Jupiter owners on various forums that there is a difference in panel control setting resolution and that is the reason btw why a 14bit JP-8 is selling at higher prices VS a 12bit.
dikkietrom
Boogie wrote:
I must have missinterpreted your feedback.

Thank you for clarifying.

Indead, I think there's plenty of room in the world for several Jupiters in whatever configuration.
Though,
several MW members think different, if not in this thread, then by PM to me.
Must be jealousy.
Glad to hear you're not one of them.

Best of luck to your project.
Boogie.


Ok all good. I am very curious how your synth will sound in poly unison with 8 voices.
tobb
deleted
dikkietrom
tobb wrote:
dikkietrom wrote:
tobb wrote:
dikkietrom wrote:
How can that be?


Because i own a 12 and 14 bit JP-8 and can hear a difference between the two,on one its more stepped then the other one.


That's either your mind playing tricks on you or something else going on but the 12>14 bit has no effect on any settings as I showed you. You say less stepped, which implies that you still hear a step so the difference must be marginal. Maybe they did something in the software for specific settings, your JP's are differently calibrated or just every JP is different anyways with all the 5% tolerance stuff inside.


I say less stepped,yes you can hear perfect the difference in resolution between the two Jupiters when you boost the Q and tweak the cutoff fader pot.

I don't know,but its well known between Jupiter owners on various forums that there is a difference in panel control setting resolution and that is the reason btw why a 14bit JP-8 is selling at higher prices VS a 12bit.


It is another myth hereby debunked, I advice you to check at least the vcf width and resonance level calibration differences between your 12 and 14 bit. It might even be that your 14 bit is not proper calibrated but gives you a better result.





Nothing changed on the panel and I can only make 8 bit of it.

tobb
dikkietrom wrote:

I advice you to check at least the vcf width and resonance level calibration differences between your 12 and 14 bit. It might even be that your 14 bit is not proper calibrated but gives you a better result.


'Not proper calibrated and better results',haha,now you really better stops spreading total nonsense!

Resonance level or vcf width has nothing to do with the available stepping resolution.

BTW for your records,also a well known difference on the Jupiter 8 14 bit version the auto tuning function goes a fraction faster then on the 12bit version.
dikkietrom
tobb wrote:
dikkietrom wrote:

I advice you to check at least the vcf width and resonance level calibration differences between your 12 and 14 bit. It might even be that your 14 bit is not proper calibrated but gives you a better result.


'Not proper calibrated and better results',haha,now you really better stops spreading total nonsense!

Resonance level or vcf width has nothing to do with the available stepping resolution.

BTW for your records,also a well known difference on the Jupiter 8 14 bit version the auto tuning function goes a fraction faster then on the 12bit version.


Don't worry you are in my ignorelist and you will never see a reply of me to any of your messages again. I regret wasting time on you, happy steppy.
tobb
dikkietrom wrote:

Don't worry you are in my ignorelist and you will never see a reply of me to any of your messages again.


Good thing,but you are not in my ignore list so i still able to monitor eventually nonsense posts..

Better to avoid polluting Boogie's thread,good luck with your Jupiter 8 voice clone cards that will perform better because 'they can be wrong calibrated'. hihi
StillNotWorking
I found its better not to have strong opinion about others experience of an instrument. But I like to discuss when we can't read from schematic claims about the technology that doesn't seem to be accurate — mostly to learn from the discussion as to why missconseption happen.

tobb, not sure if you can read schematics? But dikkietrom did post whats considered proof that there are no difference to hardware related to filter adjustments for both version of JP8.
Given Rolands documentation are accurate I agree there is something other going on — where I suggested the firmware might be rewritten to lessen the stepping.

While this thread are more focused on sales for a JP8 inspiered synth dikkietrom thread has more focused on understanding the technology behind the JP8. While it's easy to make a joke about a synth out of adjustment can be more pleasant to listen to I've actually had people mailing me telling me they used my cents table to tune they're Polysix and found they're Polysix lost "the soule".

With wacky filter calibration the range for where the controls peaks will also be altered — in theory if the controll are using realtime calculation or tables the stepping compensation will also be moved up/down as the transition are based on ADC data which are to be considered static linear.
To clearify: If the stepping compensation are otimized for the pot region between 10 to 13 o'clock and filter adjustment are wrongly peaking when pot are at 14 o'clock the result will be more stepping as the firmware now use bigger steps.
Boogie
dikkietrom, tobb, StillNotWorking

In a way, I like that you guys keep putting this thread on the top of the forum's list.
but
as this is no longer a constructive communication but getting pretty much personal on 'I know better' ,
(and I leave in the middle who's right or less right)

may I ask you to take your discussion somewhere else !

Always willing to listen to input,
but at the end,...
I will go my own way with what I think is right.

For those who like the end result, they'll go for it.
For those who don't, that's fine too.
Boogie
And here is an update on the User IF PCB

StillNotWorking
I've only trying to explain with more words in hope tobb better understood, and/or replied with more user experience from the JP8 which very few of us actually own.
If I came along as a di#% my sincere apology to everyone. oops

Maybe dikkietrom thread are better for any JP8 discussions?
Eric the Red
Unrelated: I mean thIs with all sincerity, this is one of the only times I have seen people behave with decorum on the Internet.

Related: every post gets me more and more hyped for this project to come about. With this being a complete project, and not more modules I can’t wait to bump this to the top of my project list.

Keep up the good work, and keep chugging along - I eagerly await the next update.
Boogie
The User Interface schematic is nearing completion.
Still quite some work to be done, but the outline is there.

The picture below shows some 279 components.
Expect some 40-50 more for power supply, MIDI IF and communication channel.
That will lead to 330 + components on this PCB.

Once I finalise the processor schematic, I may take the processor off of this board and make a small plug-on. It will keep the big board Through Hole.

As usual, all feedback welcome.
Thank you.
Boogie.


MrRoper
Interested in TH here!!!
tobb
Looks great.

Only thing you have to take care or better i would say make choices,is the D-shaft potmeter position VS the knob style/brand you gonna use and final user alternatives.
devinw1
330+ components! Weeeeeee!


Actually I came sorrrrta close with my order for my Pro-One clone both boards was a 153 line item Mouser order grin grin grin
Eric the Red
devinw1 wrote:
330+ components! Weeeeeee!


Actually I came sorrrrta close with my order for my Pro-One clone both boards was a 153 line item Mouser order grin grin grin


Only 153?!?! I’m working on an order for parts for about 50 different DIY projects, and I am closing in on 400 different components.

I am making the ultimate parts order, and ordering an excessive amount of extras to accommodate pretty much any future build.
devinw1
Eric the Red wrote:
devinw1 wrote:
330+ components! Weeeeeee!


Actually I came sorrrrta close with my order for my Pro-One clone both boards was a 153 line item Mouser order grin grin grin


Only 153?!?! I’m working on an order for parts for about 50 different DIY projects, and I am closing in on 400 different components.

I am making the ultimate parts order, and ordering an excessive amount of extras to accommodate pretty much any future build.


LOL. You gotta love those huge Mouser orders where there's just a giant pink garbage bag full of parts, and then like 100 papers with all the line items printed out. Dead Banana
sduck
I take it none of you have built a DDRM? This looks like a walk in the park compared to that.
Boogie
Updated the preference list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole od SMD version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

TH
1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
23. muffdiver
24. Chrutil
25. sduck
26. devinw1
27. ST.P
28. NekoNeko
29. LSuveg1
30. Sunshine Jones
31. MrRoper


SMD
1. Revok
2. grenert
3. Starspawn
4. mOBiTh
5. mangros
6. Chrutil
7. peloazul
8. amir
9. Portabella
10. YannickD
11. muffdiver
12. DisappearHere
13. groove
14. duff
15. synthpriest
16. gotama
Boogie
tobb wrote:
Looks great.

Only thing you have to take care or better i would say make choices,is the D-shaft potmeter position VS the knob style/brand you gonna use and final user alternatives.
The nice thing is that it's a 9mm potmeter. It can be replaced by a round shaft Alpha potmeter.
So one is free to put what one wants.
For the prototype, I have not decided yet which way it will eventually be,
but I don't have to change the PCB if I want to try other potmeters.

Both have their advantages and draw backs, one has a better feeling but costs about the double of the other.
But knobs, for now I was thinking on using black aluminium knobs, but other proposals are welcome.
We only have to keep in mind that some knobs are very expensive, as well as using 'cheap looking' knobs are not preferred on this system either.
My renders are with the black aluminium knobs.
All feedback welcome.
tobb
Boogie wrote:
The nice thing is that it's a 9mm potmeter. It can be replaced by a round shaft Alpha potmeter.
So one is free to put what one wants.


Oh yeah,indeed,great!
Branko
Put me down for a through hole. (I posted previously but was missed from the list)
groove
Boogie wrote:

But knobs, for now I was thinking on using black aluminium knobs, but other proposals are welcome.
We only have to keep in mind that some knobs are very expensive, as well as using 'cheap looking' knobs are not preferred on this system either.
My renders are with the black aluminium knobs.
All feedback welcome.


I'm a big fan of the Sequential Circuits style black aluminum knurled knobs... those would look awesome. I know it is premature, but were you planning to offer any parts along with panel/case/pbc? If not, group buys should help with the costs.
Boogie
Branko
Apologies. d'oh!
Added.

Updated the preference list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole od SMD version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

TH
1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
23. muffdiver
24. Chrutil
25. sduck
26. devinw1
27. ST.P
28. NekoNeko
29. LSuveg1
30. Sunshine Jones
31. MrRoper
32. Branko


SMD
1. Revok
2. grenert
3. Starspawn
4. mOBiTh
5. mangros
6. Chrutil
7. peloazul
8. amir
9. Portabella
10. YannickD
11. muffdiver
12. DisappearHere
13. groove
14. duff
15. synthpriest
16. gotama

groove
It's still premature, and honestly, I don't know yet if I should provide components or not. But thanks for bringing it to my attention in this phase of the project.
muffdiver
sduck wrote:
I take it none of you have built a DDRM? This looks like a walk in the park compared to that.


Just finished DDRM. I sure hope so. Dead Banana
groove
muffdiver wrote:
sduck wrote:
I take it none of you have built a DDRM? This looks like a walk in the park compared to that.


Just finished DDRM. I sure hope so. Dead Banana


Yeah, after I completed the DDRM, I swore off any more sdiy projects. That lasted about a whole month. I can't wait for this to arrive, but my wallet hopes it waits a few months.
Pseudo
This project is looking great. Put me down for through hole please.
Sunshine Jones
This is trivial and effectively totally irrelevant, but I've got a question about the interface buttons.

Wouldn't it be lovely, and much cheaper to use opaque plastic caps which reflect the rainbow of the JP-8's middle line rather than illuminated buttons?

I've been messing around with the MSQ-100 lately, and I must admit these little low profile squares in off white, grey, pale orange, and sky blue are really attractive and touchable buttons. Somehow a lot more friendly and inviting than led illuminated buttons.

Might be cool to do a true to the inspiration color scheme with button caps?

aabbcc
Imo transparent caps look cheap and tacky :(
devinw1
What about those little soft touch opaque ones w LEDs behind them? A modern touch for sure, but nice buttons!
Boogie
Hello all,

thanks for the reactions.

The switches I'm using here are from the B3W 9000 and 9010 series.

The special functions have a colored transparent cap, all the others (light yellow in the render) have a milky white cap with yellow led.

I do like these rubber (silicon) dome switches as well, but I'm afraid it's going to get pretty expensive if I have to reflect all fixed costs to the number of units this synth may sell. In case one may have some good references of where to buy, It's not too late to change them if mechanical constraints allow.

Updated the preference list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole od SMD version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

TH
1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
23. muffdiver
24. Chrutil
25. sduck
26. devinw1
27. ST.P
28. NekoNeko
29. LSuveg1
30. Sunshine Jones
31. MrRoper
32. Branko
33. Pseudo



SMD
1. Revok
2. grenert
3. Starspawn
4. mOBiTh
5. mangros
6. Chrutil
7. peloazul
8. amir
9. Portabella
10. YannickD
11. muffdiver
12. DisappearHere
13. groove
14. duff
15. synthpriest
16. gotama
spneca
I'm in for an SMD set.
mongrol
I must admit to being confused as to what people are signing up for. Does the front post need updating? It says voice cards are SMD only, premounted and a mostly through hole control PCB. Now there's alist for SMD or through hole voice pcb's as well? Can someone please clarify?

Edit: Sussed it out. Put me down for the SMD prepopulated option.

Would be great to DIY a fatar keybed onto this.
devinw1
mongrol wrote:

Would be great to DIY a fatar keybed onto this.


Indeed.

The sourcing for avatar OEM boards is very problematic, and affects my pro one project as well. But, stay tuned as I am insterested in trying to get something going with regard to this.
Boogie


[s]https://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/seasonsgreatings[/s]
Edit: Audio track replaced. End Edit
This audio track is a multitrack recording of the JPTR's 8 single voice board.
Chorus and reverb are added by FV1 home written algorhythm.
Apart from volume balancing, in which I'm not a specialist, no further post processing.



Updated the preference list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole or SMD version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

TH
1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
23. muffdiver
24. Chrutil
25. sduck
26. devinw1
27. ST.P
28. NekoNeko
29. LSuveg1
30. Sunshine Jones
31. MrRoper
32. Branko
33. Pseudo

SMD
1. Revok
2. grenert
3. Starspawn
4. mOBiTh
5. mangros
6. Chrutil
7. peloazul
8. amir
9. Portabella
10. YannickD
11. muffdiver
12. DisappearHere
13. groove
14. duff
15. synthpriest
16. gotama
17. spneca
18. mongrol
mongrol
devinw1 wrote:
mongrol wrote:

Would be great to DIY a fatar keybed onto this.


Indeed.

The sourcing for avatar OEM boards is very problematic, and affects my pro one project as well. But, stay tuned as I am insterested in trying to get something going with regard to this.


Dunno what you mean by avatar boards. Doepfer appear to have 49, 61, and 88 key fatar's in stock atm.
jaidee
Interested in through hole...
ACME
Here comes the first track of my own JP8 clone project.:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/markus-malik-656374981[/s]


[/img]
nvining
I'll take prepopulated SMD boards too, thanks.
devinw1
The battle of the Christmas Jupiters! Lol! Sounding great all around yall and happy holidays!
makhho
Interesting development..
FactoryDefault
Unless I win the lottery between now and when this project is released, I'm interested. Please put me down for the through-hole voice boards.
Boogie
Updated the preference list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole or SMD version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

TH
1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
23. muffdiver
24. Chrutil
25. sduck
26. devinw1
27. ST.P
28. NekoNeko
29. LSuveg1
30. Sunshine Jones
31. MrRoper
32. Branko
33. Pseudo
34. jaidee
35. FactoryDefault

SMD
1. Revok
2. grenert
3. Starspawn
4. mOBiTh
5. mangros
6. Chrutil
7. peloazul
8. amir
9. Portabella
10. YannickD
11. muffdiver
12. DisappearHere
13. groove
14. duff
15. synthpriest
16. gotama
17. spneca
18. mongrol
19. oberling
darmklacht@gmail.com
I would be interested in an SMD Version. can´t wait to hear more About all of this
reggiechacha
I’m interested in the through hole version.
Boogie
Best Wishes to you all Rasta-nana It's motherfucking bacon yo Drinking

Updated the preference list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole or SMD version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

TH
1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
23. muffdiver
24. Chrutil
25. sduck
26. devinw1
27. ST.P
28. NekoNeko
29. LSuveg1
30. Sunshine Jones
31. MrRoper
32. Branko
33. Pseudo
34. jaidee
35. FactoryDefault
36. reggiechacha

SMD
1. Revok
2. grenert
3. Starspawn
4. mOBiTh
5. mangros
6. Chrutil
7. peloazul
8. amir
9. Portabella
10. YannickD
11. muffdiver
12. DisappearHere
13. groove
14. duff
15. synthpriest
16. gotama
17. spneca
18. mongrol
19. oberling
20. darmklacht @ gmail . com
ultravox
Hello, I'm interested in the TH version.

Cheers!
Boogie
Updated the preference list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole or SMD version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

TH
1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
23. muffdiver
24. Chrutil
25. sduck
26. devinw1
27. ST.P
28. NekoNeko
29. LSuveg1
30. Sunshine Jones
31. MrRoper
32. Branko
33. Pseudo
34. jaidee
35. FactoryDefault
36. reggiechacha
37. ultravox

SMD
1. Revok
2. grenert
3. Starspawn
4. mOBiTh
5. mangros
6. Chrutil
7. peloazul
8. amir
9. Portabella
10. YannickD
11. muffdiver
12. DisappearHere
13. groove
14. duff
15. synthpriest
16. gotama
17. spneca
18. mongrol
19. oberling
20. darmklacht @ gmail . com
21. mcbinc
nvining
Somehow my name got missed. I'm down for either SMD or through hole, but my preference is SMD and prepopulated if possible. If it's not possible to get prepop, I"ll take through hole.
Boogie
Hello all,

here's some update about the VCO's Gain Flatness or V/Oct tracking.
When discarding C0, the other 9.5 Octaves are withing plus an minus 1 cent.
It took some time to optimise the components for good dynamical calibration, but the result is great. Rockin' Banana!

This is pure open loop. No processor or other closed loop applied.
Calibrated voltage generator and frequency analysing software used.
At this level of accuracy, one might doubt the overall accuracy of the measurement setup.
Nevertheless, the tracking error seems to have the correct image.





@nvining
I must have missed it somewhere, but you're on the list now. For now, I've added you to the SMD preferred list.

Updated the preference list.
Anyone who would like to see a Through Hole or SMD version of this voice board ?
You can still add your name to the list.

TH
1. Fitchie
2. aabbcc
3. tobb
4. JanneI
5. Jaytee
6. djs
7. Eric the Red
8. Level5
9. gianni
10. Fredp
11. Arnoid
12. boops
13. Chrutil
14. devinw1
15. CliffordMilk
16. peloazul TH or SMD
17. magman
18. makhho
19. KlangGenerator
20. 4floorsofwhores
21. Nidas
22. D33K
23. muffdiver
24. Chrutil
25. sduck
26. devinw1
27. ST.P
28. NekoNeko
29. LSuveg1
30. Sunshine Jones
31. MrRoper
32. Branko
33. Pseudo
34. jaidee
35. FactoryDefault
36. reggiechacha
37. ultravox

SMD
1. Revok
2. grenert
3. Starspawn
4. mOBiTh
5. mangros
6. Chrutil
7. peloazul
8. amir
9. Portabella
10. YannickD
11. muffdiver
12. DisappearHere
13. groove
14. duff
15. synthpriest
16. gotama
17. spneca
18. mongrol
19. oberling
20. darmklacht @ gmail . com
21. mcbinc
22. nvining
SyntheticDetroit
All in for a Through-Hole PCB set. Thanks!
anarude
Looks awesome! Put me down for an SMD plz
sompost
Amazing project!

While I really like the (potential) compactness of surface mount PCBs, many hobbyists -- including me -- may not be able to reliably solder teeny-tiny-sized SMD components.

Therefore, to play it safe, I'd go through hole.
mongrol
Can I just check the build options. Is the SMD option fully DIY or populated?
grenert
I believe Boogie's plan is to have the SMD boards pre-populated:
"I will appologise up front, as I will not be offering all PCB's in kit form, but rather, as many of you already know, SMD populated. "

I don't have any interest in soldering hundreds of parts per voice whether through-hole or SMD.
mangros
mongrol wrote:
Can I just check the build options. Is the SMD option fully DIY or populated?


grenert wrote:
I believe Boogie's plan is to have the SMD boards pre-populated:
"I will appologise up front, as I will not be offering all PCB's in kit form, but rather, as many of you already know, SMD populated. "

I said I'd like bare SMD boards and was added to the SMD list...

grenert wrote:

I don't have any interest in soldering hundreds of parts per voice whether through-hole or SMD.

But this is the DIY forum hihi
sempervirent
Any chance the voice boards would work as drop-in replacements on a real Jupiter-8? Just wondering if they are mechanically compatible.
Sparky
Looks and sounds great!
I’m interested.

I’d prefer SMD over TH, but DIY is my preference overall. 0603 without big MCUs etc is quite fun.
grenert
mangros wrote:
grenert wrote:

I don't have any interest in soldering hundreds of parts per voice whether through-hole or SMD.

But this is the DIY forum hihi

Ha ha, yes, I recognize the irony! smile
Boogie
Hello all,

maybe some clarification about the boards:

The question, SMD populated or not, has created some doubts at my side whether to provide SMD-unpopulated or not.

Initially, and that's where grenert took the quote (in my very first post), I did not intend to offer unpopulated SMD PCB's.

Over time, more and more requests came for unpopulated SMD PCB's.

At that point I decided to open that door as well.
Thus to provide unpopulated SMD PCB's as well, as at the end, these PCB's can be put apart before populating.

For the component placement on these unpopulated SMD PCB's,
I'll provide a big size silkscreen (searchable) pdf with all designators,
but for the DIY-er to make the color drawings which component goes where.

As there are so many requests for TH boards, I will also re-edesign the boards to TH except for the processor board.
Same story for the component placement.

I hope this is a bit clarifying.
Boogie
Boogie
sempervirent
Quote:
Any chance the voice boards would work as drop-in replacements on a real Jupiter-8? Just wondering if they are mechanically compatible.

You may have a look here for the SMD
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2946068#2946068
The TH version will be designed to fit my mechanics and are not driven to compatibe with the Roland Jupiter 8

mongrol
Quote:
Can I just check the build options. Is the SMD option fully DIY or populated?

Both will be available.
ultravox
I have an SMD reflow oven that I built, but I prefer Thru-Hole for DIY kits.

That said, I don't mind if a TH project has some SMD components like decoupling caps, ARM processors, etc. I can reflow the caps and whatnot onto the boards and then solder the TH parts. The best of both worlds.

Also TH is more forgiving if you need to rework a design after a production run.

I'm really looking forward to building the JPTR 8 clone!
JUNLAIS
Through Hole plus Keyboard ala Behringer Vocoder!




tobb
ultravox wrote:


That said, I don't mind if a TH project has some SMD components like decoupling caps


Hell no!
synthsearcher2
I am interested in a through hole version.
d.simon
mark me interested in smd unpopulated pcb/panel set
Boogie
I've been silent for about a week,
but would just want to inform you that the project is progressing.

Here are some audio files, published earlier, but might be interesting for new readers of this thread not having to scroll through 10 pages.

The next file contains both samples from the original Jupiter 8 and from the clone.
With thanks to guy who provided the Jupiter 8 samples.
These are single oscillator compares.
[s]http://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/originalvsclonec1c4[/s]

No post processing, just pure voice board.
All sounds two oscillators, non synced.
First some notes with VCO1 and VCO2 at same note.
Then VCO2 detuning 1 quint up.
Some sequences, playing with the filter.
VCO2 tuning back to no transpose.
Paraphonic playing two different notes through one voice board.
Thus 1 VCO per note.
[s]http://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/somequintsandparaphonic[/s]

Some single voice pads.
Oscillators are beautiful tracking CV without sync.
[s]http://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/somesinglevoicepads[/s]

A while ago,
boops wrote:
Imho,dont forget that the charm of the big analog synth ,obx,P5. Cs Jp that i use and well listened, is that the voices are not always perfected calibrated ,filter ,sometime light detune,in mono or polymode,Roland jp synths are often stable thought
when we will listen all the voices of this clone together,we will be surprise ,i hope in the good way

In the mean time I've been able to play a Jupiter-8 and got recordings.
Indead, the tuning is not perfect. That's probably where 'richness' of the sound comes from.
boops
Have you a pic of the voice board tHru hole layout
Please let place to choose Nos parts,like good musical film capacitors in the audio path /and filter for organic sound and character.Parts choice will.make a big difference at the end imho
Boogie
boops
Quote:
Have you a pic of the voice board tHru hole layout
No, I do not have that yet.
First I will finish the complete system, and then the derivatives.
Quote:
Please let place to choose Nos parts,like good musical film capacitors in the audio path /and filter for organic sound and character.Parts choice will.make a big difference at the end imho
For the capacitors and resistors, one can choose the brand and type one wants.These film capacitors easy fit in a 5 or 7.5mm cap.
The fets are choosen to be about compatible with the originals, as is done in the SMD version. The log convertor will probabbly end up being the same SMD components as used in the SMD version but on a DIP8 plug in, thus containing the transistors and Tempco.
Boogie
Hello all,

lately I've been working on and with the Voice Boards.
It ended with an awfull lot of wires which made me decide to do an Intermediate Test Board.
This board contains 4 voice boards and jacks for all the controll signals as well as audio signals. Further some switches are put on to be able to switch the filter orders etc...
The way it is designed allows for both a complete 4 voice board or an upper-lower configuration with 2 voice boards each.

All ideas and feedback welcome.

Boogie
Boogie
CPLD break out board
for running part of dynamic calibration in HW.
This break out board only for system analysis.
The CPLD will be added on the CPU board.

Fitchie
Boogie wrote:


    Ohla, is this hand soldered ?
    Than you have an iron hand !

    applause
Eric the Red
Fitchie wrote:
Boogie wrote:


    Ohla, is this hand soldered ?
    Than you have an iron hand !

    applause


The DIY version comes with this new Soldering Assistance Tool. You need to provide your own tiny iron...


All jokes aside, keep up,the great work and thanks for the constant status updates.

-Eric
Boogie
Fitchie
Quote:
Ohla, is this hand soldered ?
Than you have an iron hand !
Well... one has his techniques ... hihi
Many of those techniques are showed on youtube.

Eric the Red
Quote:
All jokes aside, keep up,the great work and thanks for the constant status updates.

Thanks Guinness ftw!
Tiergrinder
Looks Freaking amazing! Joining the party for the updates love
teleport
Fantastic looking project - count me in for interest in SMD boards!
Boogie
Here's another sound file

JMJ's band in the rain lead melody for about 30 seconds.
Single voice board.
Oscillators detuned to + and - 11 cents

[s]https://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/bandintherain[/s]
makhho
nanners
boops
Is it the vcox2 alone ,not filter ?

Boogie wrote:
Here's another sound file

JMJ's band in the rain lead melody for about 30 seconds.
Single voice board.
Oscillators detuned to + and - 11 cents

[s]https://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/bandintherain[/s]
Boogie
boops
Quote:
Is it the vcox2 alone ,not filter ?

It's one full voice board.
Thus using 2 oscillators, the HP (full open to low), the LPF and VCA.
LPF and VCA are driven by external ADSRs and then a little bit of reverb.
Boogie
Boogie
Today,
my 4 voices system development PCB has arrived.
I will keep you guys informed with the progress.
Edited: replaced picture with higher quality.

Boogie
Still alive and kicking, lot's of work behind the scenes going on.

shogeki
I'm very interested by this. For the smt version, what package size would be used for resistors? 0805? 0603?
Macc29
SMD, If it is 0805. But whatever, as long as this becomes a reality!
shogeki
Macc29 wrote:
SMD, If it is 0805. But whatever, as long as this becomes a reality!


Great, I'm interested in the smd version then. Dip would be acceptable too but and would be ideal.
Fitchie
Macc29 wrote:
SMD, If it is 0805. But whatever, as long as this becomes a reality!

Be sure it will !
cool

I know Boogie irl and can confirm he knows perfectly what he is doing.
Things like this are just a hobby for him, compared to the projects he delivers to his professional customers.
Eric the Red
Fitchie wrote:
Macc29 wrote:
SMD, If it is 0805. But whatever, as long as this becomes a reality!

Be sure it will !
cool

I know Boogie irl and can confirm he knows perfectly what he is doing.
Things like this are just a hobby for him, compared to the projects he delivers to his professional customers.


This is quite the amazing hobby
hono2k
It's a wonderful project.
count me in for interest in TH boards!
LektroiD
TH PCBs for me too, provided the price is reasonable...

Thanks for an awesome project!
fuzzbass
Please put me down as interested, but agnostic on the through hole / smd question. I can deal with either. Thanks.
mikemoretti
Count me in for SMD unpopulated PCBs

I LOVE 0603! I hand solder that for fun!

I'd be happy with an unpopulated SMD main board too.

-m
Boogie
shogeki
Quote:
what package size would be used for resistors? 0805? 0603?

standard SMD 0603, some SO16, some TSSOP8-14-16 with 0.65 lead pitch

Macc29
Quote:
as long as this becomes a reality!

big project, mainly because it's a lot of redesign and not copy.
All analog remains analog with some updates and additions
Digital is completely new.
It will take some time, but I don't see any obstacles that can be taken.

shogeki
Quote:
Great, I'm interested in the smd version then. Dip would be acceptable too but and would be ideal.

It might be both depending on what you would like to order.
The Control Panel is through hole with a plug-on processor board (prepopulated and programmed), Voice boards, voice motherboard and processor board are SMD.
The motherboard and voice boards will be redesigned in TH, the processor board will become prepopulated and programmed.
As I plan to build a number of them 'ready to use' I will have populated and unpopulated SMD voice boards in the end.

Initially, this will be:
SMD voice board (machine populated), unpopulated PCB's will be available as well
SMD motherboard (machine populated), unpopulated PCB's will be available as well
SMD pre-programmed processor control board (probably machine populated), no unpopulated PCBs available.
TH user control board
Pre-programmed SMD processor plug-on for control board (probably machine populated)

Fitchie
Quote:
Things like this are just a hobby for him, compared to the projects he delivers to his professional customers.

Yes,
one has to look at this as being a hobby.

Eric the Red
Quote:
This is quite the amazing hobby

Being a one-man show for this is taking way too much time to market with way too less commercializing to be a sufficient profitable activity, though one never knows what the future brings.
Anyhow, for me it's a hobby.
Some people read books where others are 'amateur' photographers... and I design electronics...

hono2k
Quote:
It's a wonderful project.

Thanks.

LektroiD
Quote:
TH PCBs for me too, provided the price is reasonable...

Being a hobby, the return on investment will probably be somewhere in the distant future.

fuzzbass
Quote:
but agnostic on the through hole / smd question

You'll probably have the choice.

mikemoretti
Quote:
I'd be happy with an unpopulated SMD main board too.

Sorry, that one is a TH by definition because of all the knobs and buttons.
Welcome to MW, I see you're here for 2 years already and your first post is on this thread.
Thank you for that !


I'll publish an updated 'interest list' later tonight.
Boogie


shogeki
Quote:
what package size would be used for resistors? 0805? 0603?

standard SMD 0603, some SO16, some TSSOP8-14-16 with 0.65 lead pitch
Below picture is hand soldered, no reflow.

shogeki
Boogie wrote:
shogeki
Quote:
what package size would be used for resistors? 0805? 0603?

standard SMD 0603, some SO16, some TSSOP8-14-16 with 0.65 lead pitch
Below picture is hand soldered, no reflow.



shogeki
Quote:
Great, I'm interested in the smd version then. Dip would be acceptable too but and would be ideal.

It might be both depending on what you would like to order.
The Control Panel is through hole with a plug-on processor board (prepopulated and programmed), Voice boards, voice motherboard and processor board are SMD.
The motherboard and voice boards will be redesigned in TH, the processor board will become prepopulated and programmed.
As I plan to build a number of them 'ready to use' I will have populated and unpopulated SMD voice boards in the end.

Initially, this will be:
SMD voice board (machine populated), unpopulated PCB's will be available as well
SMD motherboard (machine populated), unpopulated PCB's will be available as well
SMD pre-programmed processor control board (probably machine populated), no unpopulated PCBs available.
TH user control board
Pre-programmed SMD processor plug-on for control board (probably machine populated)

I'll publish an updated 'interest list' later tonight.


Wow, impressive work. Did you use a standard iron tip for the 0603 or some type of smt tweezer?

Do you have the dimensions of the voice boards? I'm wondering if they would fit on my re-flowing plate.

A populated board is probably going to be the best value unless someone already has most of the ICs at hand.
Boogie
shogeki
Quote:
Did you use a standard iron tip for the 0603 or some type of smt tweezer?
No tweezers. All soldering done with this tip. Farnell 2666933. this is for a Metcal solder station.

Quote:
Do you have the dimensions of the voice boards? I'm wondering if they would fit on my re-flowing plate.
Current design is the screen dump below. Final design will be slightly bigger.

Don't forget there are some SMD connectors on the backside

Quote:
A populated board is probably going to be the best value unless someone already has most of the ICs at hand.
Depending if one counts the hours put in assembly.
Boogie
Hello all,

Just to keep you posted,
this weekend I designed the Audio IF Board.

The JPTR-8 will provide a stereo audio image with 2 differential XLR Pro-audio outputs build around the THAT 1646 differential drivers and 3 Jack outputs for Left, Right and Mono.
An additional Pro-audio Headset output is also foreseen.
All Jack outputs are independent buffered.

The board contains power supply filtering and has separated analog GND and Chasis GND.

EMC filtering is foreseen on all outputs except the Headset output.
Overvoltage protection on the differential outputs has also been foreseen to protect the drivers agains faulty connection to a mic. input with fantom supply switched on.

Below some renders of the PCB design.



tobb
Nice work! thumbs up
ultravox
I agree with tobb - Nice work!
devinw1
Bitchin!
grizzle
Please put me down for smd populated, BUT i would be happy with unpopulated smd or thru-hole.

Cheers,
Alex
Fitchie
Another great job !
Keep on going !
applause
Boogie
Boogie
And here's the MIDI Interface Board.

shogeki
Looks great, makes me want to update all my libraries to include 3d models.

Regarding the midi interface, I'm looking to build a polyphonic Midi-CV simple interface (currently using a commercial module but I need something simpler I can include on a PCB). Did you replicate the original interface, use a micro controller or something simpler with some DACs/octocouplers?
Boogie
Hi shogeki

This is a MIDI In-Out interface.
So no analog stuff involved in this part.
It's just the connector board with galvanic separation and level conditioning.

It's using an opto-coupler to avoid GND loops and provides digital info to a processor which is on the main JPTR-8 board.

The JPTR-8 is an extensive project with multiple DAC's with different resolution depending on the function.

The standard Microcontroller I use throughout all my projects is a Microchip dsPIC33FJ256A10.
Sticking to this processor allows me to re-use parts of previous written software.

I do not make use of public libraries, as one is never sure what the latest version is, or in my case,
when selling something, I do not want to sell something based on libraries written by a third party.

About the 3D.
It's quite some work, but after a while your library will get rather complete (as far as it ever will be complete) so after a while one only has to create a couple of shapes per project, where as for the first next project one starts using 3D shapes, one will have to create, find or buy all the shapes.

I use the following to find the 3D component shapes:
https://www.3dcontentcentral.com/
https://www.ultralibrarian.com/
https://grabcad.com/library

Added and then of course the manufacturer's website.
Quite a lot of manufacturers put their 3D shapes online these days.
shogeki
Boogie wrote:
Hi shogeki

This is a MIDI In-Out interface.
So no analog stuff involved in this part.
It's just the connector board with galvanic separation and level conditioning.

It's using an opto-coupler to avoid GND loops and provides digital info to a processor which is on the main JPTR-8 board.

The JPTR-8 is an extensive project with multiple DAC's with different resolution depending on the function.

The standard Microcontroller I use throughout all my projects is a Microchip dsPIC33FJ256A10.
Sticking to this processor allows me to re-use parts of previous written software.

I do not make use of public libraries, as one is never sure what the latest version is, or in my case,
when selling something, I do not want to sell something based on libraries written by a third party.

About the 3D.
It's quite some work, but after a while your library will get rather complete (as far as it ever will be complete) so after a while one only has to create a couple of shapes per project, where as for the first next project one starts using 3D shapes, one will have to create, find or buy all the shapes.

I use the following to find the 3D component shapes:
https://www.3dcontentcentral.com/
https://www.ultralibrarian.com/
https://grabcad.com/library

Added and then of course the manufacturer's website.
Quite a lot of manufacturers put their 3D shapes online these days.


Thank you for all the info! What software are you currently using?

I'm still using Eagle which recently added 3d support, it is a little limiting sometimes and was thinking of switching platform to something better. I'm not a professional EE however and do not have access to Altium or anything in that price range.
Boogie
shogeki

Quote:
Thank you for all the info! What software are you currently using?

I'm still using Eagle which recently added 3d support, it is a little limiting sometimes and was thinking of switching platform to something better. I'm not a professional EE however and do not have access to Altium or anything in that price range.

You're welcome.
I'm using a licensed Altium version.
I'm downloading component shapes in STEP 214 format.

I create my schematics symbol, with necessary references to e.g. distributors and local datasheets.
I then create the shape, add the 3D model in the shape and then update the schematic symbol with the correct footprint.

Altium then automatically imports the 3D shapes in the PCB while importing the PCB shapes and netlist.

Hope this is of help.
peloazul
Altium - a brave soul! I have some EE friends at work that use it for projects there and it does seem comprehensive, if needing a steep learning curve.

Continued good luck with your project! All the updates are great!
devinw1
peloazul wrote:
Altium - a brave soul! I have some EE friends at work that use it for projects there and it does seem comprehensive, if needing a steep learning curve.

Continued good luck with your project! All the updates are great!


That's what our EEs use at work. They seem to like it. Their library is ridiculously detailed though, so unfortunately when they send me a board step, the files are MASSIVE. Thousands of little SMD parts with polygonal text on each one... just makes SolidWorks cry haha.
Boogie
peloazul
Quote:
Altium - a brave soul! I have some EE friends at work that..


devinw1
Quote:
That's what our EEs use at work.

well,...
quite some time ago I used to do it as a part of my day time job.
I started long time ago, but switched to PROTEL 98, ... in 1998.
Then later on, Altium bought the core of PROTEL, and still today, all the graphical stuff behind it is PROTEL.
Altium successively added the dBase structures and generators, only later on adding new routing features (also features one can use in manual routing).
Nevertheless, I bought my latest version end 2015, and am still using it today.
All my PCBs are manual routed. No autorouting. Probably because of my EMC background.
Boogie
Hello all,

A preliminary picture of the prototype voice boards on the debug board below,
and a sound file using the two Voice Boards.
Dual notes a quint apart, thus two oscillators per note, and further UNISON, thus four oscillators per note, tuned and slightly detuned.

Timestamp:
00.00 dual tones (Quints)
00.34 VCLPF cuttoff variation
00.41 pizicato like attack
01.28 bending VCO (I'm an amateur ;-))
01.58 4 oscillators gently fading to detune
02.10 some nice basses
02.24 LPF attack delay, some string sounds
02.47 some basses
03.06 LPF attack and cutoff modifs
04.02 some more bass
04.28 Pad like bass
04.37 Cello like

Pls let me know what you think.
Thanks Chugging Beers

[s]http://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/2vb-trial-1[/s]


I'll post a better picture over the next days.
Panason
Sounds awesome. Your craftsmanship/ artistry is incredible!
Please put me on the list for populated SMD... I have someone who can build it for me.
Thanks
Sparky
Oh, that sounds wonderful!
Boogie
Panason
Sparky
Thank you guys for the heads up Chugging Beers

I've done a small sound scape.
Two voice boards, ands lot's of reverb.
Very slow attack and decay, and even longer release, on the LPF and VCA.

The soundscape has some artifacts, as well as part two contains a lot of noise.
The latter comes from the first voice board I built, the second one has some updates which aren't yet implemented in the first one.

Pls listen to the sounds and try to bypass the clicks and noise.
All feedback welcome.
Enjoy !
Thank you.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/2vb-soundscape[/s]
tobb
Boogie wrote:
Hello all,


Pls let me know what you think.
Thanks Chugging Beers

[s]http://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/2vb-trial-1[/s]



thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up
makhho
beautiful!
certain parts from that soundscape remind of me of how the JP4 sounds when you crank on the VCA level..
ultravox
Awesome work Boogie!
Moogrok
Add me to the list for TH.

Looks really interesting, keep up the great work!
amonti
Please add me to the list for:

Unpopulated SMD voice boards
Unpopulated SMD motherboard
SMD pre-programmed processor control board
TH user control board
Pre-programmed SMD processor plug-on for control board

Thx!
devinw1
Sounds great! love
mOBiTh
looking forward to this!

any ideas on time scales at the moment please?
Boogie
tobb, makhho, ultravox, Moogrok, amonti, devinw1, mOBiTh
Thank you all for the heads up.

amonti
Quote:
Unpopulated SMD voice boards
Unpopulated SMD motherboard
SMD pre-programmed processor control board
TH user control board
Pre-programmed SMD processor plug-on for control board
I've added you to the SMD list.
The Control Board is by definition TH.

Moogrok
Added you to the TH list

mOBiTh
Quote:
any ideas on time scales at the moment please?
The way it is going, I expect it to be ready around the summer holidays.

Boogie
Hello all,

today the PCBs of the audio and midi IF boards have arrived.


amonti
Boogie wrote:
Hello all,

today the PCBs of the audio and midi IF boards have arrived.


Lovely boards, but the audio interface board has one chip with a thermal dissipation pad and no via - impossible to solder with an iron; I do have reflow, but have 'cooked' chips in the past; any advice for us 'unpopulated' folks? My go to is to drill a small hole though the pad and hit it with an iron, but hate to take a chance with a multilayer board...
Boogie
Hello amonti
Quote:
Lovely boards, but the audio interface board has one chip with a thermal dissipation pad and no via

One should not put via's in the thermal pad, but right next to it.
Usually for SMD soldering, the stencil will not have one big hole but like in this case 4 smaller hole which not even fill the complete pad. True, I designed this board with reflow in mind.
Quote:
impossible to solder with an iron

That's not really the idea confused
Quote:
My go to is to drill a small hole though the pad and hit it with an iron

Pls absolutely do not do this.
Quote:
but hate to take a chance with a multilayer board

It's a double layer.
Quote:
I do have reflow, but have 'cooked' chips in the past

In that case I would run some trials. and find a good setting.
Long time ago, I didn't frie them, but used a very simple uncontrolled (except for time) solution.
(And now guys, don't start laughing with me, it's realy long time ago hihi )
I built my own heating plate.
One can use a 60-80W incandescent lamp, and a tin can.
Make sure the lamp is as high up as possible in the can preferably touching the can's bottom. (bottom side is now top)
Pre-tin the pads the chip is placed on, add some flux and put the chip on the PCB
Place the PCB on the tin can, and let heat do it's job.
If everything is OK the flux will start getting more fluid after some 2 minutes and after some 4 minutes one will see the chip sink into the solder, wait some 5 seconds and turn of the heat. Don't burn your fingers, and pls be carefull with using mains voltages. No liability accepted.
Probably others have other low cost solutions, and in that case, it might be interesting one starts a seperate thread for that.
Boogie
Here's the assembled audio PCB.



amonti
Thanks for responding - not my intention to offend; I saw that you hand-soldered a couple of the voice boards, which is something I tend to enjoy vs. reflow, and I assumed you were designing all the boards with this approach as an option.

boogie wrote:
Usually for SMD soldering, the stencil will not have one big hole but like in this case 4 smaller hole which not even fill the complete pad. True, I designed this board with reflow in mind.

Indeed, I have stencils with the holes in the middle for this purpose (and they aren't 'drilling' templates hihi).

boogie wrote:
amonti wrote:
My go to is to drill a small hole though the pad and hit it with an iron

Pls absolutely do not do this.

Sad to say I've done this before for re-work with better results than reflowing an entire board. I haven't mastered pre-heat/hot air re-work without blowing away components around the chip (even with the proper chip die and heatsinks). In this case, I could pre-heat the and air solder that particular chip first and then worry about other components.

boogie wrote:
amonti wrote:
but hate to take a chance with a multilayer board

It's a double layer.

Didn't think an interface board would have many layers; good to know, thanks.

boogie wrote:
I built my own heating plate... *snip*

Ok, I've heard and seen many homemade reflow plates and ovens, but I've never heard of a light bulb-based one (as in an "EZ-bake" reflow oven?). My son is actually working on a soldering project for school this weekend, and I'm going to try this out, but I'll start another thread if it works!
boops
Boogie wrote:
Here's the assembled audio PCB.





Up ,look very nice...
bujbot1
This is really cool. Great work.

I'd be interested in the through hole version.
jonny_w
Definitely interested in a SMD version (unpopulated), but TH is fine by me too.
Boogie
Quote:
not my intention to offend

I don't feel offended, it might be the way I reply. Sorry for that, but that's just me. Chugging Beers

Thank you all for the heads up.
I'll do an update on the interest list this coming Sunday.

In the mean time,
Here's an update on the midi board assembly



JohnnySlick
Interested in an SMD set.
boops
makhho wrote:
beautiful!
certain parts from that soundscape remind of me of how the JP4 sounds when you crank on the VCA level..

yes with a jupiter in your studio ,magic appears here a little demo of my jp4v2 ir09 vcf that ive fully restored ,just a few notes ,its simple. liquide and magic !imho

[s]https://soundcloud.com/buchlaventure/arp-buchla-227-pan[/s]
Fitchie
Boogie wrote:
Here's the assembled audio PCB.





Again Boogie-rated !
applause
Boogie
sines
Boogie wrote:


me and a friend could spruce for 2-4 JPTR-8s.. SMD please!
Boogie
Hello sines
great to hear that.
I'll start by adding 3 pcs on the SMD preference list.
Update will follow by Sunday.
Boogie
mongrol
I'd like to move to through hole please. Thanks.
anonimouse
I have enjoyed watching your progress. Please add me to the TH list.
Jackdamery
Please add me to the SMD populated list.
Boogie
Hello all,

thank you for your ongoing heads up and showing of interest.
I've updated the preference list as per request.

I've moved mongrol to the TH list
anonimouse has been added to the TH list
Jackdamery has been added to the SMD list

Small update

After evaluating the first Voice Board prototypes I decided to do a redesign of the voice board adding a wave shaper to VCO2 and third channel (not 3rd VCO) to the mixer so that both VCO's have the same waveforms.
Noise can be mixed separated, meaning the mixer has 3 channels.
VCO1-VCO2-and noise seperately.
Further, the selected connectors are realy a pain......, to solder the inner row if not reflowing.
Therefore I took the decision to move away from that and move to DDRx socket.
Apart from solderability, the selected connectors started suffering bad contact after plugging in and out only some 20-30 times.
The new SMD voice board will thus have a whole bunch of edge gold plated contacts of which plenty are in parallel reducing the 'bad contacts' to as good as zero.

That's it for now.
More to follow.

Chrutil
Hi Boogie,
I am following this with interest, and your redesign seems like a good idea.
I did notice that my name seems to have been added more than once - in facc I am featured twice the the TH list and once in the SMD list.
I am equally comfortable either way, but maybe for this I would pick TH, so maybe you could remove me from the SMD list (#6) and remove one of my entries (#24) from the TH and I'm all set.

Thanks,
C
Boogie
Hi Chrutil

updated.
I'll publish again this Sunday.
Panason
I seem to have been removed from the list for populated SMD and sines is there 3 times seriously, i just don't get it
Boogie
Panason wrote:
I seem to have been removed from the list for populated SMD and sines is there 3 times seriously, i just don't get it
I don't know when that happened seriously, i just don't get it , but added you again. Chugging Beers

Re: Sines
Yes, he asked for 2 to 4 pcs. So I added 3.

darmklacht@gmail.com
I´m sorry boogie... I will have to pull out.
My Finances will need to go elswhere.

Good luck with the project nevertheless! it looks like a ton of fun and its surely goinna make a bunch of people happy!
Ayab
Boogie, this looks like a dream design by Boogie.

I would be interested depending on final spec (see below) and cost in - ALL PRE POPULATED SMD. I would rather remove my own skin than try and trouble shoot my own thru hole build of such a beauty.

I am interested to know if you have looked at implementing midi at all? An advantage of the Deckards Dream is the classic cs80 polyphonic after touch via midi.

A stand alone polysynth without midi for me is an issue of the controller keyboard - I don't know any without midi.

Because I don't have the skills to build a keyboard that could scan the CV's and all that stuff it.

Outside of the hardcore diy community I see this could be a sticking point -unless I am missing something obvious here (have not read thread exhaustively yet).
devinw1
I won't speak for Boogie, but I'd be super duper surprised if he wasn't planning on having MIDI. I don't see why you'd make a balls out standalone polysynth desktop unit that didn't have MDI. For simple Euro modules, sure CV and gate are fine, but for this... yeah MIDI seems to be the way to go.

I'd actually love to see it done as a keyboard unit, but it seems again, desktop is the preference of people on this board.
JanneI
Boogie already posted the Midi board (3D pic), so just browse the thread..
moogah
I'll be watching closely and would want pre-populated SMT boards depending on my available budget when it's ready.

Cheers!
Ayab
Thanks JanneI

I will read the rest of the thread - sorry, I was late on this and haven't had the chance to read up on it (and then got ahead of myself). But it is out of enthusiasm. Have been stuck in a bit of a hole recently and not seen this up to now. Very exciting project.

I look forward to Boogie giving details of the midi implementation.
Virusinstaller
Looks like an interesting build!
I must red up on this more
Boogie
darmklacht @ gmail . com
No problem, but If you don't mind,
I'll leave you in.
It's only a list with people expressing their main interest.


Ayab
Quote:
Boogie, this looks like a dream design by Boogie.

Wow, thanks for the heads up.
Quote:
An advantage of the Deckards Dream is the classic cs80 polyphonic after touch via midi.

The unit will have midi In and Through.
Midi out still to be implemented.
Thank you for the remark on aftertouch, I'll update one another to implement it. It's not too late yet.

devinw1
Quote:
I'd actually love to see it done as a keyboard unit

Maybe in the 2020 (2021) version, who knows. cool

moogah
I'll add you to the list

Ayab
Quote:
I look forward to Boogie giving details of the midi implementation.

I'll do that by the time everything is about to finish. Tha would also be a moment in time to add some software features in both capabilities and midi implementation, though it should not go in the way of a thousand questions resulting in a 'never ending story'.

Virusinstaller
Quote:
I must red up on this more

Yes please feel free to catch up as much as possible.
Some previous work of mine can be found here:
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=202248
darmklacht@gmail.com
Boogie wrote:
darmklacht @ gmail . com
No problem, but If you don't mind,
I'll leave you in.
It's only a list with people expressing their main interest.


Ok Boogie,

No problem leave me in. I might end up still going along... who knows. I just can´t commit right now.
looneytoonz
Hi everyone - first-time post on this thread.

I am following this development with great interest - Also after successfully building the DDRM. I'd be interested in a TH Kit.

Boogie: Are your kits meant to be complete (i.e. PCBs + All Components + case)? I'm just curious what else I would need to source to build a complete product.

Thanks,
Kevin L
devinw1
Boogie wrote:

Maybe in the 2020 (2021) version, who knows. cool


hihi hihi thumbs up thumbs up
Boogie
darmklacht@gmail.com
Quote:
No problem leave me in. I might end up still going along... who knows. I just can´t commit right now.

No problem, who knows what time brings. Always welcome.

looneytoonz
Quote:
Are your kits meant to be complete (i.e. PCBs + All Components + case)? I'm just curious what else I would need to source to build a complete product.

Good question, no straight forward answer.
SMD PCB's will come populated and bare PCB, no SMD components delivered.
TH PCB's will only be unpopulated. Adding the TH components may be an option, but would add the kitting to the price. I've done this for my MiniP7 kit, where it turned out to be a huge job, even for a only a couple components.
There are some fellow MW's who do kitting of components. If they would be interested to do it, I would not mind.

Below the updated interest list.


markelm
Hi! Please sign me up as interested in an SMD board (populated or unpopulated, depending on cost). Thanks!
makhho
second'd on the keyboard version, however I totally understand where the priority rests.
RowanH
Put me down for SMD (populated).

Many thanks.
mckenic
Cost and timing (on this side) depending please put me down for TH (or populates SMD - either is fine).

Thanks mate!
Warpus
Please put me in for populated SMD. Thanks!
looneytoonz
Quote:
Boogie:
Quote:
Quote: looneytoonz
Are your kits meant to be complete (i.e. PCBs + All Components + case)? I'm just curious what else I would need to source to build a complete product.

Good question, no straight forward answer.
SMD PCB's will come populated and bare PCB, no SMD components delivered.
TH PCB's will only be unpopulated. Adding the TH components may be an option, but would add the kitting to the price. I've done this for my MiniP7 kit, where it turned out to be a huge job, even for a only a couple components.
There are some fellow MW's who do kitting of components. If they would be interested to do it, I would not mind.




Thanks for the response, Boogie.

I guess my biggest concern was the case. I think you may be supplying that, since I read all of the previous discussions about panel layout and form-factor.

If BOMs are published for each option, that would be very helpful. For DDRM, SynthCube (US) kitted components for almost all parts. It would be great to arrange with them, as they are pretty reputable.

Best,
Kevin L
Boogie
Hi looneytoonz
Quote:
I guess my biggest concern was the case

Yes, I will provide the case.
Quote:
If BOMs are published for each option, that would be very helpful
At the time, I will certainly release the BOMs.
Quote:
SynthCube (US) kitted components for almost all parts

They are on my list to be contacted, or if they want, they're always welcome to contact me already, though that would be a bit too soon.
Boogie
Boogie
Hello all,

An in between update.

Before finishing the new voice boards I have been working on some low power VCO saw cores.
These cores will have a lesser power consumption of at least 100 mW @ 30V compared to the original schematic. (and thus less self heating)
All this without sacrificing the purity of the SAW as original designed.
It took a while to select the right components, and it's been a lot of work to get there.
I used some spare boards of the previous version of the Voice Board to experiment, though now it's time to try them on their appropriate PCB for evaluation. Screen dump below.
Once this is done, I finish the new version of the Voice Boards.

Next step is the DAC board to hold the Voice Boards and the processor board.
Though that last one may get implemented on the DAC board.

Planning wise,
well, end of june doesn't seem realistic anymore.
I'll keep you updated along the road.

All the best to you all.

Eric the Red
End of June, end of July, end of August... I don’t think it matters to us.keep up the good work.
Boogie
Hello all,
short update about the low power VCO I've been working on.

I forgot to order 1 chip , so I populated it with an SO8 (placed vertical and some small wires) instead of a VSSOP8.
Fully functional, but not so nice to show pictures yet.
That'll be for 2nd half next week when the part arrives.

This new design of my Saw-core VCO remains its linearity and has
improved long term stability.

One another for the total power of only: 202 mW. @ plus and minus 12V.

I'm considering to make this a DIP 28-like plug on module.
Would be usable for those willing to make their own VCO or whatever.

In case of sufficient interest I'll start a separate thread for it.
tobb
Boogie wrote:
Hello all,

I'm considering to make this a DIP 28-like plug on module.
Would be usable for those willing to make their own VCO or whatever.

In case of sufficient interest I'll start a separate thread for it.


That would be cool,should be +/-15v compatible then to. (so it can be used for other formats like 5U,4U)
synthetic
I am interested in the populated SMD version. The samples sound incredible. I haven't heard a polysynth sound this good in decades. Tremendous, legendary work.

It is probably too late, but if the case could be 17" wide instead of over 19", we could attach ears for rack mounting. And I like the jellybean colored buttons, that's a big part of the experience for me.
Boogie
tobb
Quote:
That would be cool,should be +/-15v compatible then to.

All frequency influencing circuits are supplied by local stabilized references and all opamps can handle more than +/- 15V.
I did that as an oscillator should not depend on the stability of its supply which I see is unfortunately happening quite a lot in modular designs.
This oscillator is foreseen and functional to work on both +/-12V and +/- 15V without any jumpers.

synthetic
Quote:
I am interested in the populated SMD version
I'll add you to the list.
Quote:
The samples sound incredible. I haven't heard a polysynth sound this good in decades. Tremendous, legendary work.
Thank you !
Quote:
It is probably too late, but if the case could be 17" wide instead of over 19", we could attach ears for rack mounting

I've been considering that initially, but there are so many controls that in order to keep them well accessible during live performances, I had to space them at a realistic distance.
As well as by now, the control panel lay-out is quite final as well.
Thanks for the input but no 19" version for now. Though the sound expanders, discussed earlier in this forum, will probably fit into a 19" 3U rack.
About the knobs, one may always remove the assembled ones and replace them by their own preference. Otherwise, it would make me end up with dozens of different knobs.
Boogie
Low Power VCO core
The screen dump below shows a tuning analysis over 8 octaves.
The B7 indicates +100 cent which is C8 +/- 0 cent.

Initial tuning of C4 after 20 sec was +9 cents.
Below a sceen dump after a warm up of 10 minutes. (after all, it's analog...)

Starspawn
Id love a simple saw core to use with fritz waveshapers and things.
synthetic
Understood about the layout. This seems very far along and I just discovered it last week. Also I already have a Super Jupiter & Programmer so the rack thing is covered. wink

Use some orange paint on the front panel if you can afford it. smile
Boogie
Hello all,

Picture of Low voltage VCO below.

Soldering is less good, but was for evaluation only (prototyping)
As I've put quite some time into optimizing and component selection,
I prefer not to disclose the used IC's yet.
Thank you for understanding.

Boogie
ultravox
Boogie wrote:
Hello all,

Picture of Low voltage VCO below.

Soldering is less good, but was for evaluation only (prototyping)
As I've put quite some time into optimizing and component selection,
I prefer not to disclose the used IC's yet.
Thank you for understanding.


Nice going and no problem about using discretion with your prototypes. It's your design and to quote from War of the Worlds: "..intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic, regarded this earth with envious eyes, and slowly and surely drew their plans against us".

As such, I'm waiting for the big reveal later this summer / autumn! thumbs up
lukexi
Hi Boogie, I'd be in for an unpopulated SMD!
jbdiver
Please add me to the SMD list.
Boogie
Now and Zen
Hi Boogie,

I'd like a set of populated SMD boards please...
Boogie
vicpop
Please put me on the SMD list
groove
Hi Boogie,

Is this project still live?
devinw1
I was just thinking of this the other day! Hope everything is all good Boogie!
Portabella
Fingers crossed we're not worthy
Boogie
groove
devinw1
Portabella

Hello all,

I slowed down, yes.
It will arrive, though not on extreme short term.

I hope to be posting again in a couple weeks.

B rgds,
Boogie
Panason
Bump 'n' grind
devinw1
Right on, Boogie. Good to hear from you! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
nicdro
nice project.
please put me down for smd
thanks!
edit: i suggest polyAT if it is possible we're not worthy
B0bcat
Please put me down for through hole smile
plushterry
I'd like to go on the list for a couple of smd boards please. Great project, by the way. Really inspiring work!
JanneI
...just wondering if Boogie signed a NDA and we'll see a Bupiter-8 pretty soon? hihi
devinw1
JanneI wrote:
...just wondering if Boogie signed a NDA and we'll see a Bupiter-8 pretty soon? hihi


lol
zaxby
Please add me to the SMD list, thanks!
303monkey
how much us a set of boards?
maybe interested
Kevin Mitchell
303monkey wrote:
how much us a set of boards?
maybe interested

I'd like to know as well. This thread is some serious candy. The bigger the project - the bigger my appetite.

Great work.
-KM
oberling
JanneI wrote:
...just wondering if Boogie signed a NDA and we'll see a Bupiter-8 pretty soon? hihi

at least something must have happened: even nabla-instruments.com is down...
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