MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Information
Happy holidays! Please see the year-end funding drive post in the Announcements subforum. Thanks and all my love to you beautiful people.

Selling used synth gear internationally (money transfer)??
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Selling used synth gear internationally (money transfer)??
Rex Coil 7
I may be selling some modular gear to someone in the Mighty UK, I live in the Mighty U.S.A. The buyer has expressed reluctance to use Paypal to pay me "because Paypal is such a ripoff" ( seriously, i just don't get it ).

The transaction total will be somewhere between $200 and $400. The buyer has offered to do a transfer into my bank account. Yes yes ... I know .. "red lights a-flashin' everywhere!!" anytime someone wants to fiddle with your bank information.

However. While I've never met in person this individual, he's a long-time member of this forum, quite vocal, and many people within the 5U sub-group are familiar with him. I suppose it could be said that I "know" him as well as anyone can "know" someone having engaged and interacted with them in a synthesizer forum for several years. What I'm trying to say is that the buyer is (at least) "that trustworthy".

Enough background ... here's my questions:

What means of money transfers do some of you use for international transactions? Is Paypal ~the~ only trustworthy method? In what way does Paypal over charge a buyer in an international transaction like this one I've described? Am I just a dumass?

... ok, I've left myself wide open with that last question .... meh, so be it. ...

lol

Thanks for the help.... Rex. nodnod
tIB
If you use personal payment and transfer the money into the bank account PayPal's cost is just their inflated exchange rate. International bank transfers though have a higher charge though generally, depending on the amount to be exchanged.
oldgearguy
I've had good luck using TransferWise sending money to SchneidersLaden for some gear. Similar to PayPal in some ways, but way cheaper on the fees.

worth looking into, IMHO.
Rex Coil 7
oldgearguy wrote:
I've had good luck using TransferWise sending money to SchneidersLaden for some gear. Similar to PayPal in some ways, but way cheaper on the fees.

worth looking into, IMHO.
A while back I bought some gear from a vendor in the UK. He wanted me to use Transferwise, but he made it seem as though there had to be some sort of "invitation" used on his part to permit me to use Transferwise to pay him. In other words, it's like he's some sort of "member" with Transferwise and the only way I could use it was if he (as a member) invited me to use the service.

I just took a look at the Transferwise site, I used an amount of $300 USD as a test figure just to see how it would come out. The person in the UK would have to pay $238.00 GBP plus a $1.75 GBP "fee" for me to receive $300.00 USD ..... at least I think that's how it would go (if I'm understanding things correctly).

They're guaranteeing an exchange rate of 1.27395 ... at least for today.

Does all of this seem correct?

Thank you VERY much ... I really want this transaction to go through and I want both seller and buyer to be happy with the results.

thumbs up
SoundPool
this is a US vs European bank thing - while I don't know the details and you should use your own brain here it is not particularly likely someone is trying to rip you off just because they don't want to use paypal. European online banking (although I can't speak to UK specifically I guess) is significantly safer and faster and doing direct transfers for all kinds of personal or small business transactions is totally normal. here if you walk into a bank with a check people will wonder what the hell you are doing and why you would use this totally unsafe piece of paper with long processing times to send money around. that said, US banks are in my experience set up equally as poorly for handling what should be routine transfers especially from out of the country the same way here nobody in their right mind takes a personal check. there may be other options but for me unfortunately paypal has always been the easy bridge for getting money between the two systems unless you are looking at large sums of money.
BugBrand
Yes - Paypal's fees do help provide some safety net in theory.

Transferwise is good when set up - it is not invite only (you can invite people to get some rewards - like get 3 people to make transfers and you get an extra $50). I heard a couple of people say it took a while to set up (may depend on bank) while others have managed fine & quickly. Once set it is very good - near instant and low fees compared with Paypal or Bank transfer.
I've used it for a good few times with people paying me (UK) from US.
rean1mator
seems like a bit too much work for only a 200 or even 400 dollar sale. unless your pieces are hard to sell items then imo i would just sell "locally"

i've used transferwise and would recommend that if you must sell it overseas. don't recall it needing an invite. it just require you both to have an account setup which may take little time.
CF3
tIB wrote:
If you use personal payment and transfer the money into the bank account PayPal's cost is just their inflated exchange rate. International bank transfers though have a higher charge though generally, depending on the amount to be exchanged.


Was gonna post this. Bank transfers to Europe from the US are crazy expensive. I was forced to do one recently, and won’t do that ever again. Haven’t used any of the other tranfer services, because honestly, I rarely if ever sell internationally. It’s too risky. IMO.
GGW
I once sold a piece of gear on eBay from Canada for about $200. The purchaser was in Australia and said that they did not have a credit card or PayPal account, would I take a bank transfer, and he would wait for it to clear. I was not comfortable providing a long list of bank transfer codes, but my bank said it would come through a secure system. When the funds arrived, I got about $125. I asked my bank about the amount and they showed me the record of all of the transactions. It had traveled through many institutions, including a couple in the US and each one took a fee. The buyer paid $200 and probably a fee as well. I don't have any experience with some of these other systems being discussed here, but I would never do a straight bank transfer with anyone again.
Rex Coil 7
BugBrand wrote:
Yes - Paypal's fees do help provide some safety net in theory.

Transferwise is good when set up - it is not invite only (you can invite people to get some rewards - like get 3 people to make transfers and you get an extra $50). I heard a couple of people say it took a while to set up (may depend on bank) while others have managed fine & quickly. Once set it is very good - near instant and low fees compared with Paypal or Bank transfer.
I've used it for a good few times with people paying me (UK) from US.
My experience was like that ... it took nearly two hours to provide them with all of the jumping through hoops to make it all happen (I was the buyer, the seller was in the UK). In the end I decided to go with Paypal because I simply could not get the Transferwise set up to work. I told my wife about it, she rolled her eyes and said "here, let me do it for you" ... after about an hour (and hearing her cuss like a sailor a few times, which is not like her) she gave up.

It was probably issues with my bank that created the frustration ... however that is just a guess.

rean1mator wrote:
seems like a bit too much work for only a 200 or even 400 dollar sale. unless your pieces are hard to sell items then imo i would just sell "locally"

i've used transferwise and would recommend that if you must sell it overseas. don't recall it needing an invite. it just require you both to have an account setup which may take little time.
Well, I'm not willing to blow off the buyer, I correspond with him regularly in the subforum here in Miffwugglers that I typically haunt. The items are just a couple of synth modules, but I don't want to refuse doing business with someone I banter with regularly here in-forum just because it may inconvenience me. It's just the way I am, I suppose.

I'd much rather work out a solution that suits us both. And thanks to those that have replied in this thread, we're getting closer to arriving at one!

GGW wrote:
I once sold a piece of gear on eBay from Canada for about $200. The purchaser was in Australia and said that they did not have a credit card or PayPal account, would I take a bank transfer, and he would wait for it to clear. I was not comfortable providing a long list of bank transfer codes, but my bank said it would come through a secure system. When the funds arrived, I got about $125. I asked my bank about the amount and they showed me the record of all of the transactions. It had traveled through many institutions, including a couple in the US and each one took a fee. The buyer paid $200 and probably a fee as well. I don't have any experience with some of these other systems being discussed here, but I would never do a straight bank transfer with anyone again.
And there we have the nightmare scenario ... exactly what is making me feel pensive about the bank transfer method.

I see the potential buyer has left me another PM (I've yet to read) .... let's see where this is going ...

thumbs up
bimbom
I’ve sold things on gumtree recently , and through no fault of people ‘abroad’ I’m only selling to people in the uk(where I’m at)

Even with PayPal there might be currency exchange charges plus their normal fees , though in general people seemed ok paying friends and family.

The main thing which puts me off is the shipping costs , no matter how well I estimate , pack , measure I seem to often undercharge by accident .. once it’s sent I feel uncomfortable requesting more cash .
Shipping items with insurance kicks the price up even more.

Ive done bank transfers (IBAN?) , I ussually assume the transfer rate is worse than online , maybe %5 , worse ...I guess it’s still less than eBay fees.
To add a little more confidence i’m not ripping people off I often send details of other ways to contact me (Facebook page etc ) ..

Overall selling abroad often becomes much more likely that I end up with less than the asking price even if the person is paying it.
Panason
The info you need to send someone so they can send you money via bank transfer does not compromise your bank account security as far as I know.

If you use Paypal and they use the option "sending money to friends and family" then Paypal doesn't charge you a fee to receive the money and the buyer doesn't get any protection. They have no recourse if anything goes wrong.

If they use "paying for goods and services" you get charged a selling fee (5- 10%) and then they can decide to return the stuff for any reason within the first month or so and you have to refund them when they send it back.... If you refuse to accept the return, Paypal will usually refund them anyway and put your account in the red. They could send back a broken item and you would have a difficult situation. This is why a lot of people say "Paypal Friends&Family only" , to avoid this .

But if they're a long time member here I doubt they will pull such shit for a few hundred bucks..
oldgearguy
The other thing about PayPal and bank transfers is that you get a horrible exchange rate. So if the seller is in US and the buyer is in Europe and they send Euros, the exchange rate cuts even farther into you total received.

That's the interesting thing about Transferwise once I read up on how it worked. You get a very very competitive transfer rate 9almost what you see on places like oanda.com and such).

Bank fees + exchange rate == low enthusiasm for a bank transfer these days.
Back in the pre-internet days, it was basically your only option, but now you have options.
Rex Coil 7
How about revolut ??

LINK = https://www.revolut.com/us-en/






Multi Grooves
Transfer wise was recommended by Happy Nerding and was a joy to use..
blipson
Aside from fees, on the security side, it's not insecure to provide the information necessary for bank wire transfer: bank SWIFT code, routing number, and your account number. Along with names and addresses, that's not enough info to incur more risk of criminal fraud than other paying methods. I.e. someone can't use that information to steal money out of your account unless they also either have your authentication codes or take some fraudulent ID to the bank personally to impersonate you.
BugBrand
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
My experience was like that ... it took nearly two hours to provide them with all of the jumping through hoops to make it all happen (I was the buyer, the seller was in the UK). In the end I decided to go with Paypal because I simply could not get the Transferwise set up to work. I told my wife about it, she rolled her eyes and said "here, let me do it for you" ... after about an hour (and hearing her cuss like a sailor a few times, which is not like her) she gave up.

It was probably issues with my bank that created the frustration ... however that is just a guess.


Well (if I remember right) one person had to submit documents (I think I also had to when setting up my business account - like passport scan) which took a few days to confirm, but someone else seemed able to get it set fine on his phone while wandering around Disneyland.
I'm sure I did hear something about different US Banks having differing issues - I know diddly about US banking ways though!
arthurdent
blipson wrote:
Aside from fees, on the security side, it's not insecure to provide the information necessary for bank wire transfer: bank SWIFT code, routing number, and your account number. Along with names and addresses, that's not enough info to incur more risk of criminal fraud than other paying methods. I.e. someone can't use that information to steal money out of your account unless they also either have your authentication codes or take some fraudulent ID to the bank personally to impersonate you.


THIS. I recently sent a large sum of money to a man in Bolivia. Went to the local branch for my bank with the guy's info, the woman at the bank did the whole thing for me on her computer, took about 5 minutes.
Panason
Quote:
I recently sent a large sum of money to a man in Bolivia

Multi Grooves
arthurdent wrote:
blipson wrote:
Aside from fees, on the security side, it's not insecure to provide the information necessary for bank wire transfer: bank SWIFT code, routing number, and your account number. Along with names and addresses, that's not enough info to incur more risk of criminal fraud than other paying methods. I.e. someone can't use that information to steal money out of your account unless they also either have your authentication codes or take some fraudulent ID to the bank personally to impersonate you.


THIS. I recently sent a large sum of money to a man in Bolivia. Went to the local branch for my bank with the guy's info, the woman at the bank did the whole thing for me on her computer, took about 5 minutes.



I was about to ask how many Kilo Grams...
myecholalia
Transferwise +1.
Use it all the time also to transfer between my own bank accounts in different countries.
Works extremely well and fees are low compared to anything else I know.
Rex Coil 7
This is making my hair hurt thinking about it all.

Transferwise .. "It's great!" .. "It sucks!"

Bank Transfers .. "It's great!" .. "It sucks!"

Revolut .. (crickets)

The only consensus is that Paypal is too costly, which is something we all seem to agree on.

Beyond that, this seems as though it's one of those situations where you can put all of the options on a piece of paper, hang the list on the wall, throw a dart at the list with your eyes closed, and go with whichever option the dart stuck closest to.

seriously, i just don't get it
BugBrand
No, Paypal is extremely useful & convenient - but it does have some fees on both ends for international transfers. I'm personally happy to move more transactions over to Transferwise where possible, but understand that isn't always viable.

For a one off, just go with Paypal and split fees - then move on to other worries in the world!
Panason
SoundPool
Panason wrote:
Quote:
I recently sent a large sum of money to a man in Bolivia



not to totally derail the thread here but hey maybe we can also not get off topic by posting racist bullshit?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Page 1 of 2
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group