High quality MultiFX 2019, Eclipse?

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rove74
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High quality MultiFX 2019, Eclipse?

Post by rove74 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:55 pm

Anything else out there?
is the Eclipse long in the tooth at this point?
I have been thinking about a hardware FX unit with at least a few knobs and more versatile than the OTO offerings (which sound cool) and the field is small, no?

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Post by blakeq » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:59 am

Eventide h9 would work if you can handle something not in a rack.

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Re: High quality MultiFX 2019, Eclipse?

Post by syncretism » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:05 pm

rove74 wrote:Anything else out there?
is the Eclipse long in the tooth at this point?
I have been thinking about a hardware FX unit with at least a few knobs and more versatile than the OTO offerings (which sound cool) and the field is small, no?
A Kurzweil KSP8 with expansions and an RSP8 remote is a hard thing to beat for the price, if you can find one.

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Post by calaveras » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:06 pm

I feel like Eventide is the only one left in the game.
Lexicon and TC Electronic both got gobbled up by conglomerates that do not seem very interested in development. Only mining the existing IP for profit.

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Post by rove74 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:31 pm

h9 is great, but the interface is lacking and it's really designed for instrument level input rather than line level.
Considering the factor effects, though they each only do one thing well, but are up for line level signals and have knobs.

What about the Axe FX or even Line 6 HX?

I wouldn't mind having an eclipse, just seems like for the $$$ there'd be something else, or that maybe it would get an update or a price drop.
Computer with VST plugins is an ok option, but the interface is lacking once again.

So many vintage analog hardware devices getting cloned/reissued by the likes of Warm and GAP et al, maybe there will be a rack FX revival at some point.

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Post by fac » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:43 pm

With some patience, you might be able to grab a Lexicon PCM-80/81 for $300-$400. I got a PCM-91 for around $320 a couple years ago; it only does reverb but it sounds amazing.

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Post by calaveras » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:58 pm

There are a couple problems with devices like PCM80. First, is going to be the vintage digital curse. On an old synth you just have to find obscure opamps or transistors (or an SSM or curtis chip!). On old digital you have to source ASICs and obscure digital components that went out of production as soon as new tech was available.
The other problem I have with some older reverbs and multieffects is that even prosumer level audio gear is much higher resolution now. 16 bit reverb sounds kind of bad. Not a problem with some vintage Lexicon and other reverbs where half the magic is the transfer function of the converters and line amps.
But man, my vintage quadraverb sounds like shit now. And I used to love those.

Personally I think I need to get a high quality spring reverb.

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Post by locust_locust » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:45 pm

Lexicon PCM92 is still available, or TC M3000- but they have been around for a long time and haven't really been updated.
Plugins have taken over for most people.

Otherwise you are looking at Bricasti for Reverb (more money but very nice).

I'd be going for the Eclipse or looking for a reconditioned H3000.

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Post by Jcsveth » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:29 pm

Eventide H9000. Expensive but current.

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Post by m:o » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:23 pm

I was recently in a same situation - searching for a hardware fx with vibe.
After checking a H9, and some mediocre stuff (zoom) i could get an H3000 D/SE for a good price. Maaan, i was blown away immediately and understodd the fuzz i was reading about. It oozes vibe, depth and liveliness with almost every algo i tried. it is suprisingly good to edit with only on knob and number pad. I expanded it with a H3500 kit to full scale and can totally recommend it (while knowing vintage digital can be a black hole when i crashes)

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Post by RonF » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:02 pm

The AXEFX is a really good thing to consider.

You can get an AXEFX 1 or 2, second hand, for pretty cheap right now, as the Ver III has taken the field.

Its perhaps the best of both worlds...meaning, ITB and Hardware Rack interfacing. You can use the AXE Edit software to control it and customize it, in your DAW or standalone, to great detail and complexity (if you wish). The quality of the effects algorithms is unbelievable, and somewhat of a sleeper. Its on par with the Eventide boxes. Not exactly the same tone and timbre (meaning, Eventide has a signature sound).....but at the same level of excellence and detail.

In some ways, its better than the Eventide H series.....in that the cross platform AXE Edit software is VERY user friendly and accessible as compared to the Eventide VSIG which you'll need a degree from MIT to master. Thus you can REALLY customize in micro detail your own effects and algorithms. While you can do this on the Eventide H series....its daunting to say the least on VSIG (Windoze only too). The H9000 only comes with a software interface, not an algorithm editor as of this writing...no VSIG for it yet.

Granted...you may not need the Amp and Cab facilities of the AXEFX...but they too are fun to play with on your synths. They can add a lot of tone and character. But alas, they also take up valuable DSP resources on the box...so NOT using them leaves lots of power and room for your effects creations. Fractal does make an FX-only unit...but its not a rack, its a floor pedal (a beautiful piece of hardware though), the FX-8. But I'd go for an AXE-FX 1 or 2 rack at this point as a top competitor to an Eventide H-series rack.

I'd put the AXEFX III up against the H9000 for half the cost! Perhaps the biggest thing the H9000 has going for it is its FX-chains...where you can route in series or parallel up to 4 algorithms. That's awesome....but you can do the same with the AXEFX....in some ways with even more flexibility, and no limit of 4 (the DSP is the limit....so clearly a version 2 has more power than a version 1, both of which are eclipsed by the AXEFX 3). So, yes.....AXEFX-3 up against an H9000....a very viable comparison on many levels.

PS... I own an H7600, and Eclipse, and AXEFX1, 2, and now a 3 (I've upgraded every time...but keep the older unit BECAUSE its such a great effects and signal processor!). I've got a few TC racks, have had numerous Lexicons, and plugins up the ying yang, some of which I love, and more pedals that you can throw a stick at. I like the H7600 and the AXEFX the best.

PS....the Eclipse is a wonderful box! But is far less user friendly to use and program than the AXEFX. At max, its two effects....while even the AXEFX1 could easily get you 6 to 8 effects chained (especially if you're not using DSP resources for Amps and Cabs).

All in all...I think the fact that the Fractal is so clearly marketed as a guitar equipment company makes the AXEFX seem like its not in this class. But its modern, supported, NEW, cutting edge tech, and interfaces seamlessly into the DAW and Hardware worlds. Its got I/O for line level stereo synths...extensive routing. I could go on!

PSS...I've played extensively with the Helix....NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS EVENTIDE OR FRACTAL.

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Post by rove74 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:20 pm

That's interesting to hear the opinion that Axe FX is in the same league as the Eventide boxes, I suspected as much, but user reviews that aren't guitar centric are non-existent for the Fractal FX.
(I play guitar and appreciate the amp sim, IR, etc--but also I am pretty content with my current guitar setup...well except I need one more guitar :hihi: )
I just read up on the updates to the Axe FX III and wow, lots going on there. Definitely going to look more into the Fractal options, FX8 looks cool as well.

Thanks, RonF, for the detailed insight.

H3000 would be really fun to try out if priced right, but seems it's in the same $ territory as a new Eclipse... hmm.

H9000 is not going to happen.

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Post by brokensolderingiron » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:42 pm

So everything else is crap? Roland, Yamaha,Zoom, etc?
Is there list of; gargantuan,super,high,decent,resonable,normal, bad and lousy quality effects boxes?

Ehrm! Like this dude goes through loads of reverbs, well, kinda all sounds OK in their own way... perhaps.

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Post by pd_inc » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:24 pm

The Ensoniq DP/4 or DP/4+ is worth considering if you're throwing older rack fx into the mix

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Post by rove74 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:14 am

brokensolderingiron wrote:So everything else is crap? Roland, Yamaha,Zoom, etc?
Is there list of; gargantuan,super,high,decent,resonable,normal, bad and lousy quality effects boxes?

Ehrm! Like this dude goes through loads of reverbs, well, kinda all sounds OK in their own way... perhaps.
I am open to all options, mostly with "hifi" I am referring to the "pro" IO options e.g balanced, digital io as well as the ability to chain some effects. Really not interested in a reverb on its own, hence multi-fx.

What zoom or Roland options do you recommend?
I see Yamaha has the SPX2000, successor to the spx990--that would be a contender I suppose, haven't checked it out.

DP4 seems to be relatively cheap used, I remember wanting one when they came out.

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Post by locust_locust » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:15 am

RonF wrote:
PSS...I've played extensively with the Helix....NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS EVENTIDE OR FRACTAL.
For the most part I agree but the Helix has some convenience factors to it.

I have an Axe FX II, Fractal FX8, Kemper & a Helix (both floor and plugin versions) here in my studio and mostly use them as guitar processors but I have used all of these to process synths (as well as drums, vocals and various other things).

When Cliff Chase designed the original Axe FX the amp modelling was bolted on almost as an afterthought- he was really trying to design an FX processor to compete with Lexicon/Eventide/TC and such. The amp modelling took off because it was an order of magnitude better than anything else at the time and here we are now.

The converters in the Helix are not to the same standard as the Axe FX II, but if you use the digital IO with the Helix I find the effects very usable (LA2A style compressor, bleat chop trem, Adriatic delay, barber pole mod are all excellent).

My main concern with Line 6 generally has been how everything was built to the bare minimum price (cheaper parts- switched, knobs and such) and they didn't hold up to professional levels of touring abuse.
I went through 3 Pod Pro XT's back in the mid 00's, and the DL4 kept breaking as well.
Largely this has been fixed with the Helix, although you do hear the odd complaint.

None of them have particularly amazing pitch effects- it is the one area that I feel that Eventide are still dramatically above the rest.
I use the AFXII's pitch delays quite a bit.

The Axe FX II and the FX8 have an incredible reverb.

If you don't need amp modelling and want a floor based thing then then FX8 is a really good option.
Has a fantastic looper too.

I mostly gig (as a guitarist) with the Helix though- one box, no messing about, integrated expression and it sounds very good indeed.

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Post by jimfowler » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:30 pm

Just get yourself an Eventide and be done with it. I've owned: DSP7500, Eclipse and (now) Orville. I won't ever be without one of their boxes in my rack. H9000 looks rad but I'll wait until it's been out and Eventide has committed to supporting it long-term(-ish).

For live use the Eclipse is great. But for studio use I'd always recommend one of their 2u units.

- Jim

P.S. - Also owned a KSP-8...kinda wish I still had it.

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Post by Jean Luc Cougar » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:54 am

Following along as I’m in the same boat.

Trying to decide between an H9, H3000, and Eclipse.

I love the Eventide VSTs, and everyone says the HW is better and more expansive. I think I am between the H3000 and the Eclipse at this point trying to decide between power/clean and mojo/classic.

What I will say about the DP4 (I have one):
Great unit, definitely dark and colored and sounds amazing for gritty flanges, etc. compared to Eventide VSTs and demos though - it’s not in the same league as the Eventide stuff.

Also: possibly the worst UI of any unit I own. Enough that I occasionally switch to a different unit to work faster.

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Post by fac » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:56 am

What's a good price for an H3000 these days? Also, I have no idea about the differences between versions; do they have a big impact in price?

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Post by Jean Luc Cougar » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:19 pm

H3000s seem to go for 1-2k

Factors:
Age: they were in production for 20 years, newer units command more
Algorithms: expanded units command more

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Post by johnnywoods » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:36 pm

I would heartily recommend the Orville. I cant imagine life without it. If you're patient, you can find good deals on it used. Super flexible with i/o, sounds as good as anything out there imo.

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Post by Funky40 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:24 pm

AXE is still on sale: 10%
For sale:........it won´t sell, so i stopp bother you ;)

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Post by Jean Luc Cougar » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:59 am

johnnywoods wrote:I would heartily recommend the Orville. I cant imagine life without it. If you're patient, you can find good deals on it used. Super flexible with i/o, sounds as good as anything out there imo.
I truly, truly wish it was in my price range - at the moment I’m
In H9 or used H3000/Eclipse territory

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Post by rove74 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:17 pm

I decided on an H9. Already have one Max, got a good deal on a core, so doubling up on H9s.
I was really tempted by the Axe, but I just know I would replace my current guitar setup with it and find myself still looking for multi fx :roll:

Didn't want to splurge on a new eclipse or try to track down a working H3000 for the same $$.

H9 is no slouch, though.

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Post by GovernorSilver » Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:44 pm

Oh yeah if you already had an H9 Max, a good deal on a Core to double up is hard to beat.

I was surprised how quick and easy it was to learn Expert Mode to access all 10 params for a given algo on the pedal - without busting out my iPad.
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