HEX-01 eurorack cable hanger

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1st

Post by jjmcclear » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:27 pm

sduck wrote:Happy to report that I was backer #1!
Haha congrats! :hihi: :yay: Thanks man!

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Post by UltraViolet » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:50 pm

:yay: :yay:

Come on everyone, buy one of these!

Backer #4

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sduck
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Post by sduck » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:34 pm

I have to say, while I think this is a worthy endeavor, and would like very much to have one, the $13,400 goal is pretty optimistic. I've seen a lot of kickstarters fail because of overly optimistic initial goals. Hope this isn't the case here!

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Post by oranginafiend » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:41 pm

sduck wrote:I have to say, while I think this is a worthy endeavor, and would like very much to have one, the $13,400 goal is pretty optimistic. I've seen a lot of kickstarters fail because of overly optimistic initial goals. Hope this isn't the case here!
Yeah. While I'm considering backing, it's probably not going to happen. Only 2786 folks have viewed this thread on muffs. If you were able to somehow miraculously get a 10% sale conversion rate on that view count for the basic tier that actually includes a unit (which is an absolutely unattainable figure), you're still not even at your goal. And sure, muffs and this thread aren't the end-all-be-all of eurorack/modular discussion. But they're pretty close.

Seems highly ambitious to expect $14,000.

Good luck though.

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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:22 am

oranginafiend wrote:
sduck wrote:I have to say, while I think this is a worthy endeavor, and would like very much to have one, the $13,400 goal is pretty optimistic. I've seen a lot of kickstarters fail because of overly optimistic initial goals. Hope this isn't the case here!
Yeah. While I'm considering backing, it's probably not going to happen. Only 2786 folks have viewed this thread on muffs. If you were able to somehow miraculously get a 10% sale conversion rate on that view count for the basic tier that actually includes a unit (which is an absolutely unattainable figure), you're still not even at your goal. And sure, muffs and this thread aren't the end-all-be-all of eurorack/modular discussion. But they're pretty close.

Seems highly ambitious to expect $14,000.

Good luck though.
sduck wrote:I have to say, while I think this is a worthy endeavor, and would like very much to have one, the $13,400 goal is pretty optimistic. I've seen a lot of kickstarters fail because of overly optimistic initial goals. Hope this isn't the case here!
$13,400 for developing and production of a water jet (or "four laser") cut powder coated plate with a few breaks in it? A properly equipped manufacturing facility should be able to produce 200 of those per hour. At the very least.

I've been involved in manufacturing and design since 1983. I was a paid manufacturing consultant and company manager in that field for over 10 years. While I recognize that I most certainly do not "know everything", I'm not afraid to admit that I do have experience in that field. Ok enough of my background (no one wants to hear that!).

I'm not seeing $13.4k there. Especially with today's CNC driven machinery. It's made of one single component, there are no moving parts, no electrical components, no international approval issues.

I feel Member *sduck has some justifiable concerns. While I wish anyone that wants to succeed all the best, I have my own reservations on this one.

Synthesizers.Com offers a mic stand mounted cable hanger that will accommodate up to 156 1/4" cables. Asking price is $38.00 plus shipping. I wonder how many they've actually moved since the marketing began? (That is a rhetorical question ... food for thought).

One observation; that jam nut has too few threads (at least that is what the rendering depicts). If it is to survive consumer use it will need to be 2x as thick with twice as many threads. Not the thread pitch, mind you ... simply more threads/thicker nut. Among a number of other reasons, it's thin design will result in consumers gouging the hanger plate when tightening the jam nut due to the fact that many folks trust the use of pliers on such things. That said, there is very little for pliers to grab ahold of, which will result in slips and then the pliers will skate across the plate ruining the powdercoated finish. Few modular synth owners have complete socket sets or box end wrench sets (which are the proper tools for that type of fastener).

I've presented my opinions, time to shut my trap. I wish all those involved in this project the best of luck. You never know how some things may go over with the buying public, it may be a smash hit ... but then again ....

:confused:
Never Quit, Die Falling Forward
5U PROJECT - (skip pages 4 through 6, boring junk) ... https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... highlight=

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Post by UltraViolet » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:16 am

While, like sduck, I might have concerns about reaching the goal, it is really bad to post that here. I hope I am wrong, but it would appear that the group of you may have effectively posted flaming dead bananas.

A rack for 1/4 leads won't hold smaller 1/8 inch leads well if at all. There are a lot of cuts needed to make this so it has to cost more to produce than some generic thing the same size. Considering the uniqueness and quality of the design, the price is reasonable for a small run. It is not just functional. It looks really great too.

There is still plenty of time left and the number of backers is steadily growing. You KNOW you want one. Much cheaper cure for GAS than another module.

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Post by jjmcclear » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:19 am

I understand everyone’s concerns on the set fund amount. I’ve crunched the numbers over and over, again and again. I really wanted to get them closer to $30, but unfortunately it just wouldn’t be economically doable.

This might be just a “single piece of metal “ but, consider this... This is almost 12” across. Which is larger than most, has more bends, more slots, holds more cables (360 when I last checked). It has a lot of cuts (takes a bit longer to prototype, time = money) The final product’s center bevel, and bent ends on the prongs... will require a very costly tool and die to be made, so they can do them more rapidly. Then of course the sand blasting and textured powder coating... also not cheap.

Then there’s the factory shipping, which is over $1200 for just 500 units. I then have the shipping supplies (boxes, foam, packaging tape, copy paper, toner) comes to almost $2000. $1000 for a design patent, legal services (didn’t even factor that in the final cost)... lawyers aren’t cheap! lol I’ve spent well over a $1200 on these prototypes, just as promotional examples. Purchased a website domain, paid for hosting, hiring a affordable web developer, a DBA registration for taxes, paid promotional services online (none of which was factored in on the price for these)

I would like to be paid for SOME of my time... design time, administration time, and the product fulfillment time (which I set at a minimal amount to keep costs down). 1000 stickers (that I’m throwing in for free) were almost $400, and again... it does require my time to design them, shop around for the best prices, manage things, etc. (none of this time was included).

I’m also only able to order 500 hangers, which makes them cost more than if I were to do a larger run. It was getting up to $20,000, for a couple thousand (and that’s JUST the manufacturer’s estimate). They do get cheaper the more you order, but $20,000 (or more when you consider the shipping supplies etc) didn’t seem very realistic. I’ve shopped around on pricing, all over the Country and outside. Most of the shops in the states wanted $20 $30 a unit, at cost, for $500 - $2000 units. I did find one in Flint Michigan that would do them for less, but... then there’s the powder coating, which tags on a few more grand.

It’s not easy (or cheap) to start a business, or design a product... I purchased the hardware, 3D software, 2D graphic software... then designing, ordered CAD file conversations, promoting, prototyping, patenting, manufacturing, packaging, with free stickers (again, not all of my expenses were factored in). I’m not jacking the price of these up out of greed or anything. It’s just an expensive process.

I split what I could between 500 units, which I only expect half will sell on kickstarter (if I’m lucky). The other half will either go on the the website for sale, or be sent to retailers at wholesale costs (if the campaign is even successful). Either way, I’m not getting rich. I largely did this because I love electronic music, and like building things that other people might appreciate. Eurorack is a small niche, even for musicians. But I love it.

Again, it may be “just a single piece of metal “ but it takes a lot of time, money, and effort... to create something like this. It doesn’t start and end, all at the shop they’re cut at. I’m on social media sites, Facebook groups, chats, emails, YouTube, Instagram, forums (other than MW)... making phone calls, every day, and night... promoting the hell out of this cable hanger.

I’d really appreciate your support in helping me spread the word. Even if you feel you don’t want one for yourself. I’ve really worked my ass off, because I felt it was something people would want. If you feel you need a better explanation... please feel free to message me. It IS currently 4AM and I’m half awake typing this on my phone, so... I could have left something out. ;)

Regards

Jesse
Last edited by jjmcclear on Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by oranginafiend » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:46 am

Not trying to get further into this, but I'm certainly not accusing you of trying to make a huge profit or laughing all the way to bank. I own a small business and know that it's hard to come out where you need to be after expenses. I, and others, are just expressing our concern over the amount you have to generate in a mere 30 days. Were it available for $30-$40 on a website I would probably just jump in and buy one. Again not telling you to ditch the Kickstarter and take out a loan or drop your savings into this hoping it takes off, just expressing concern.

That said, when I get through with work today I'll back it.
:party:

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Post by chiavere » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:16 am

Just as a comparison, the synthesizers.com cable holder (which is what I currently use) is $49 shipped in CONUS.

This one is $58 shipped, holds about double the number of cables, and is from a startup, not an established manufacturer like synth dot com - that seems pretty reasonable to me.

I’ve backed it - good luck! :nana:

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Post by Plugler » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:14 am

chiavere wrote:Just as a comparison, the synthesizers.com cable holder (which is what I currently use) is $49 shipped in CONUS.

This one is $58 shipped, holds about double the number of cables, and is from a startup, not an established manufacturer like synth dot com - that seems pretty reasonable to me.

I’ve backed it - good luck! :nana:
This one here has a much better design compared to that on synthesizers.com. And it's really worth the price. If I had to buy as many normal straight holders for the same amount of cables, I would pay a similar price for all together, but would need more space to mount these holders! :confused:

That piece on synthesizers.com is simply a doubled normal holder. Not well designed and much overpriced for that simple design. He can only take this high price, because it's no comparable product on the market.

I've backed it too, and wish also good luck!

BTW:
If this holder ever gets distributed via normal synth stores, please distribute it also over an european store (e.g. Schneidersladen). It's very hard to get good holders in Germany. And buying it overseas is no solution.

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Shipping

Post by jjmcclear » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:58 am

The shipping also goes towards the goal. We would need a minimum of 232 hangers ordered. That’s depending on people’s location, and I’m not including the t-shirt orders.... so, could still get there sooner.

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Post by DSC » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:14 am

Having had a successful Kickstarter campaign I can also mention the fact that 10% immediately goes to Kickstater and the credit card companies. You know they will get paid. Taking your ideas to market is a learning experience. You end up learning more about business than actually having fun with your product or ideas. Anyone willing to learn is good in my book, good luck to you and all of your supporters!

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Post by jjmcclear » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:18 am

Plugler wrote:
chiavere wrote:Just as a comparison, the synthesizers.com cable holder (which is what I currently use) is $49 shipped in CONUS.

BTW:
If this holder ever gets distributed via normal synth stores, please distribute it also over an european store (e.g. Schneidersladen). It's very hard to get good holders in Germany. And buying it overseas is no solution.
Thank you for the support! I have friends in Germany. One recommended his friend's shop... Exploding Shed.
Last edited by jjmcclear on Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by jjmcclear » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:23 am

DSC wrote:Having had a successful Kickstarter campaign I can also mention the fact that 10% immediately goes to Kickstater and the credit card companies. You know they will get paid. Taking your ideas to market is a learning experience. You end up learning more about business than actually having fun with your product or ideas. Anyone willing to learn is good in my book, good luck to you and all of your supporters!
Yeah KS asks 5%. Then there’s a 3% processing fee.

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Post by jjmcclear » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:44 pm

oranginafiend wrote:Not trying to get further into this, but I'm certainly not accusing you of trying to make a huge profit or laughing all the way to bank. I own a small business and know that it's hard to come out where you need to be after expenses. I, and others, are just expressing our concern over the amount you have to generate in a mere 30 days. Were it available for $30-$40 on a website I would probably just jump in and buy one. Again not telling you to ditch the Kickstarter and take out a loan or drop your savings into this hoping it takes off, just expressing concern.

That said, when I get through with work today I'll back it.
:party:
I do understand. And I wasn't trying to be snarky at all... It is a lot, it is optimistic. I have my concerns as well, that it might not succeed. but I don't think posting pessimistic comments about it NOT succeeding... helps anyone. It could even discourage pledges.

I spent a lot of time thinking about the goal amount. I kept trying out a large number of outcomes, numbers etc. I just didn't have any other option right now, unfortunately. And If it doesn't follow through on KS... I'll look at other options. Although, I've tried... It's just hard getting a business loan, having just started out, and not having any actual sales to show.

Realizing that I don't have a brand presence as of yet, and I wanting to be competitive with what's out there... I would have like to offer these at a lower price. But it's not exactly like what's out there.

If things work out, and I'm able to order larger numbers, in the future... I would definitely pass the saving on to my customers.

I do appreciate the feedback and support! :)

Kind Regards

Jesse

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Post by jjmcclear » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:55 pm

I couldn't remember if I shared these links, but... I have a number of eurodesk-z social media accounts online. If you want more updates?

https://www.instagram.com/eurodeskz/

https://www.facebook.com/eurodeskz

https://twitter.com/EurodeskZ

https://www.eurodesk-z.com

The website is currently being worked on.

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Post by sduck » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:10 pm

Sorry to stir the pot with my comment, so to speak. Hopefully if falls into the category of "any publicity is good publicity"! As the campaign gets closer to the end, I may have to bump up my pledge, if that helps.

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Post by jjmcclear » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:44 am

sduck wrote:Sorry to stir the pot with my comment, so to speak. Hopefully if falls into the category of "any publicity is good publicity"! As the campaign gets closer to the end, I may have to bump up my pledge, if that helps.
Oh you're fine. I just wanted everyone to understand why the goal was set so high.

Jesse

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Stickers

Post by jjmcclear » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:47 pm

A small run of promo stickers came, today. I may do rounded corners on both next time, but... they turned out pretty cool! :nana: Even though the colors are a bit off in this photo. lol

Image
Last edited by jjmcclear on Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by jjmcclear » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:01 pm

More news,

I've been in touch with some YouTube ninja masters, over the past several weeks... about possibly checking out, and showing some HEX0-01 campaign love. I've shipped out prototypes to DivKid Ben, Mylar Melodies Alex, BoBeats, and Andrew Huang. You guys should have those shortly!

I very much appreciate they're help with spreading the word. Thanks so much guys! :yay: Links to all their channels, are posted below. Make sure you subscribe, if you haven't already. They have awesome channels, with tons of great demos, and reviews.

Image

DivKid
https://www.youtube.com/DivKidVideo

Mylar Melodies
https://www.youtube.com/mylarmelodies

Andrew Huang
https://www.youtube.com/andrewhuang

BoBeats
https://www.youtube.com/bobeatsmusic


:nana:
Last edited by jjmcclear on Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:13 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Post by UltraViolet » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:26 pm

Best of luck with the YouTube reviews. Very smart move. There are plenty of potential buyers if you can get the word out to them.

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Post by jjmcclear » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:35 pm

UltraViolet wrote:Best of luck with the YouTube reviews. Very smart move. There are plenty of potential buyers if you can get the word out to them.
Thanks. My fingers and toes are crossed! :hihi:

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Post by thx2112 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:05 pm

They look awesome. Count me in.

The price is about right. A couple years ago I made a much, much smaller hanger:

Image Image Image

They were laser-cut aluminum (a tad more expensive than steel), and the bending/powder-coating was done in-house -- and for a selling price of $15 (what similar items were selling for) it just wasn't worth it unless we made 1000 of them at a time.

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Post by jjmcclear » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:55 pm

thx2112 wrote:They look awesome. Count me in.

The price is about right. A couple years ago I made a much, much smaller hanger:

They were laser-cut aluminum (a tad more expensive than steel), and the bending/powder-coating was done in-house -- and for a selling price of $15 (what similar items were selling for) it just wasn't worth it unless we made 1000 of them at a time.
Those look excellent! Really nice quality. I was thinking of doing mine in aluminum at first, but thought steel would be less likely to bend. Plus it costs less. Those look very nice though.

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Noodle Test

Post by jjmcclear » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:14 am

Yesterday I did a quick test... how many Pittsburg Modular eurorack cables, fit on a single HEX-01 cable hanger...??? pause for dramatic effect... 444 Nazca Audio Noodles! That's a lotta pasta, guys! ;)

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