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Expert sleepers and CV/Gate
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author Expert sleepers and CV/Gate
MuffTickler
Im assembling a sound design system (not for performance, no sequencer) based on a quad VCO. I want good daw/midi interaction and I have been looking towards the expert sleepers ES3/5/8.

Before I can choose the right solution, I need to confirm what types of channels I need and how many.

So ideally I would want

4x trigger/gate (x1 + multiples if its a 4 layer mono sound)
4x 1v/oct (x1 + multiples if its a 4 layer mono sound)
1-4x velocity (with 4 and enough VCA's I should be able to have individual velocity in a 4 note chord)
?? for aftertouch and other fun CV

Is this understood correctly?

My question here is - are CV and Trigger/Gate channels different, or is it only the signal that is different?

Does trigger and/or gate signals go through CV via DC coupled channel on say an ES8 or ES3 and does it behave differently? If yes, does Silent Way or your midi to CV module then decide which type of message to send?

Also as I understand it, aftertouch is just a variable value, which then should just go via CV through DC coupled channels. is that correct?

Thanks a lot for the help! I am new to building a full system, thanks for understanding. Links to other explanations are welcome as well.
mdoudoroff
(deleted—inadequate response)
YogicNet
MuffTickler wrote:

My question here is - are CV and Trigger/Gate channels different, or is it only the signal that is different?


They aren't different when they are output (in this case via an ES module). A trigger or gate is just a specific kind of Control Voltage.

MuffTickler wrote:

Does trigger and/or gate signals go through CV via DC coupled channel on say an ES8 or ES3 and does it behave differently? If yes, does Silent Way or your midi to CV module then decide which type of message to send?


No they don't behave differently. on an ES8 or ES3 you can send any type of CV signal (or audio even) and it doesn't have to be through Silent Way. It could be straight from your daw or through other software - like VCV rack.

On an ES5, however, you can only send out a signal via Silent Way's software and that signal MUST be a gate/trigger signal.

MuffTickler wrote:

Also as I understand it, aftertouch is just a variable value, which then should just go via CV through DC coupled channels. is that correct?


Yes. you could map the aftertouch midi value from your controller to be output by the ES8 or ES3 as a CV signal.

I've never used Silent Way for such a thing - but I'm certain it can be done by the free software VCV rack.


Hope this helps!
MuffTickler
YogicNet wrote:
MuffTickler wrote:

My question here is - are CV and Trigger/Gate channels different, or is it only the signal that is different?


They aren't different when they are output (in this case via an ES module). A trigger or gate is just a specific kind of Control Voltage.

MuffTickler wrote:

Does trigger and/or gate signals go through CV via DC coupled channel on say an ES8 or ES3 and does it behave differently? If yes, does Silent Way or your midi to CV module then decide which type of message to send?


No they don't behave differently. on an ES8 or ES3 you can send any type of CV signal (or audio even) and it doesn't have to be through Silent Way. It could be straight from your daw or through other software - like VCV rack.

On an ES5, however, you can only send out a signal via Silent Way's software and that signal MUST be a gate/trigger signal.

MuffTickler wrote:

Also as I understand it, aftertouch is just a variable value, which then should just go via CV through DC coupled channels. is that correct?


Yes. you could map the aftertouch midi value from your controller to be output by the ES8 or ES3 as a CV signal.

I've never used Silent Way for such a thing - but I'm certain it can be done by the free software VCV rack.


Hope this helps!


thx a lot!! very helpful

Does gate/trigger signals work in a multiple or is that for CV only? Is this a common way for triggering/gating multiple VCO's that need to play at the exact same time? (like a 3 layered kick for example)

What about 1v/oct?

Since playing real chords from midi isn't really a thing in eurorack, this could save me a lot of outputs on a midi module. I could then expand if I wanted to play chords with different VCO's.
MuffTickler
oops and does the same go for velocity as well? I guess that should be possible
sasbom
Triggers work in a normal, passive mult.
Sometimes it can happen that after a while if you mult too much eg 5 copies of the
signal, some modules might not trigger due to voltage drop. (id say that would be highly unlikely but I've had it happen, specifically multing from the korg sq-1 gate)

This voltage drop, however little it may be, is also the reason why you don't
want to mult 1v/oct cv, because it will affect the tuning.
Cv voltages for pitch are best run through a buffered mult, this is a mult that requires
power and that accuratly reproduces the input voltage to all its outputs.

For things like velocity, where you probably won't notice the teeny tiny drop in voltage,
so it would be ok to have a passive mult.

I hope that cleared it up!

tldr just to be sure:
(normal) passive mult: Gates, Triggers, Velocity, Lfo's, things that don't require precision
Buffered active mult: pitch cv, things that require precision
MuffTickler
sasbom wrote:
Triggers work in a normal, passive mult.
Sometimes it can happen that after a while if you mult too much eg 5 copies of the
signal, some modules might not trigger due to voltage drop. (id say that would be highly unlikely but I've had it happen, specifically multing from the korg sq-1 gate)

This voltage drop, however little it may be, is also the reason why you don't
want to mult 1v/oct cv, because it will affect the tuning.
Cv voltages for pitch are best run through a buffered mult, this is a mult that requires
power and that accuratly reproduces the input voltage to all its outputs.

For things like velocity, where you probably won't notice the teeny tiny drop in voltage,
so it would be ok to have a passive mult.

I hope that cleared it up!

tldr just to be sure:
(normal) passive mult: Gates, Triggers, Velocity, Lfo's, things that don't require precision
Buffered active mult: pitch cv, things that require precision


My bad - im talking only buffered multiple modules - I don't use passive ones, since it doesn't win you a lot, but might cost you something here and there.

So to sum up: if I use active multis only, velocity, trigger, aftertouch and 1/v oct is good for a mono sound with multiple layers? meaning that I have no need for the signals to be different from voice to voice (same pitch, velocity and on/off relationship every time)
And that they behave musical like if you had 4 of each instead of using multis?

Thanks a lot
sasbom
Hmm, I think that's a bit on the subjective side but generally yeah!

At least, if your osc's are calibrated correctly and have warmed up properly they sould
all sound exactly the same if you pass the Exact same signals to them with a
buffered mults.

I've had to callibrate my osc's but if you get yours from intellijel or some other reputable company you probably don't have to. I got mine from Ladik, and while they are great, they required some fine tuning.

Warming your osc's up is also pretty important depending on the oscillator. Mine from ladik take about an hour and a half, and from then I can play as much as I want without them drifting on me.

So tldr, yes, 4 voices should exactly be the same
MuffTickler
thanks a lot, very helpful.
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