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Arturia applies to trademark "Synthi" and releases
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]
Author Arturia applies to trademark "Synthi" and releases
elmerfudd
bwhittington wrote:
Blingley wrote:

Ethics are a luxury. A lot of people making music today are not able to afford them.


That is a truly shocking, dispiriting view.


Oh the irony, 'Ethics are the aesthetics of the future' (poorly translated as the end justifies the means) is a Marxist maxim, now being recycled to justify a naked power (money) grab by predatory capitalists.
Ol Karl is spinnin in the grave. Or laughing, as bougie Synhti owners square off against bougie wannabe artists who think a synthi nameplate on a $300 synth is, like, exactly the same thing!
If they have the skills they should make a low cost synth that captures the synti signal and workflow flexibility and they would sell a load of them, wouldn't matter what they named it, call it THE TURD. But its soo much easier to poach the name and stick it on a turd and just sell the panache.
slow_riot
It would be more interesting to see customers judge how the money they spend is being used... e.g. how are the staff treated, what business practices are employed to obtain the desired results?

For instance, for all of Uli Behringer's marketing of Music Tribe as a people's liberation resistance, almost everyone who worked there disagrees:

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/MUSIC-Tribe-Reviews-E662385.htm

Assuming the customer can afford such alternative strategies towards capital, they may well yield better results for them in multiple dimensions, these big companies are only in it for one reason, no matter what the marketing says.
weinglas
dan_p wrote:
I'm finding it hard to comprehend how anyone can think it isn't at least a little bit out of order to register someone else trademark of a product still in production. And the wigglers citing synthesisers for the masses, starving children and white privilege... Big Lolz


Sad, but true waah
flashheart
bwhittington wrote:
Blingley wrote:

Ethics are a luxury. A lot of people making music today are not able to afford them.


That is a truly shocking, dispiriting view.

Agreed. confused And this attitude while musical tools have NEVER been cheaper in real terms. seriously, i just don't get it
Ceres
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papz
elmerfudd wrote:
But its soo much easier to poach the name and stick it on a turd and just sell the panache.

Well said thumbs up
MindMachine
Arturia is on a marketing roll lately! zombie
Blingley
bwhittington wrote:
Blingley wrote:

Ethics are a luxury. A lot of people making music today are not able to afford them.


That is a truly shocking, dispiriting view.


Perhaps, but it's true - and probably going to not only stay true, but to accelerate into the near future.

flashheart wrote:

Agreed. confused And this attitude while musical tools have NEVER been cheaper in real terms. seriously, i just don't get it


Yes, but democratization also means that the more disenfranchised are trying to get a voice in music. Back when only wealthy people could afford instruments, the only people that could afford instruments could also afford to care about ethics. And as these people were the only people able to afford the instruments, they were the only target market for them - and as such the manufacturers of these products had to care as well.

In addition to that, competition has never been more fierce. Even people from disenfranchised groups and poor countries need to compete on a global scale, should they wish to find an audience for their music.

To put it into perspective, India has 1,3billion people, or close to 18% of the entire world population. The GDP per capita is less than two thousand US dollars - the median wage is likely well below that. Living in a modernizing society, these people will want to take part in the cultural artefacts of the global society - including music. Do you think someone living on $1500/year gives a damn whether or not there is some outstanding IP dispute on their instrument manufacturer? And that is not even the most extreme example: Kinshasa is predicted to become the largest city on the planet by 2075, and D.R. of Kongo sports an astounding GDP per capita of less than $500.

The average person on the planet is poor, likely to get more poor, but still wants to have a voice in the culture of our planet. These people do not, and will not, give a damn about some people on an internet synth geek forum getting their emotions hurt, or some synth manufacturer in a faraway country losing their profits over someone copying their designs. And as these areas grow relatively richer, that is able to afford instruments at all, they will form the largest market for these products. It is as such unlikely that most manufacturers will give a shit either.
papz
Do you think many people living on $1500/year consider buying a synth, even as "cheap" as $300 ? Seriously ?
The manufacturers of cheap instruments rather target wealthier people strongly affected by GAS who always want more and don't care about ethics, like most synth geeks on the forums.
dan_p
Blingley wrote:

Back when only wealthy people could afford instruments


Ahh yes, that time back yonder when the rich landowners kept music away from the proles in the fileds and the poor were left in cultural isolation waiting for someone to invent folk music...
Blingley
papz wrote:
Do you think many people living on $1500/year consider buying a synth, even as "cheap" as $300 ? Seriously ?


There are, believe it or not, people of above average wealth in these countries. People for whom a basic keyboard synth is an investment similar to someone buying a grand piano in the wealthier western countries. And there are certainly people of below average wealth in more wealthy countries. The point is that the relative wealth of the average person interested in making music has significantly decreased as music trends and culture as a whole became global due the the internet.

papz wrote:
The manufacturers of cheap instruments rather target wealthier people strongly affected by GAS who always want more and don't care about ethics, like most synth geeks on the forums.


Or it may be just that being on these forums we get overexposed to that group of people. Besides, most synth geeks won't be happy unless the product is organically sourced from the finest component farms grown in the exact same old-stock conditions of the synths of yore.

dan_p wrote:
Blingley wrote:

Back when only wealthy people could afford instruments


Ahh yes, that time back yonder when the rich landowners kept music away from the proles in the fileds and the poor were left in cultural isolation waiting for someone to invent folk music...


Well, for whatever it's worth, not much of many folk traditions remains to this day and age, and the history of European music for instance is basically laden with church music and relatively wealthy composers. Having good instruments gives you cultural power. Or perhaps you think that many of the churches invested heavily into organs for the sheer lulz of it.

Or perhaps your argument is that the poor should be content making music for only their close circle to hear and happy being forgotten, without even trying to make a mark on the world, letting the rich people to do it instead? hmmm.....
chamomileshark
Maybe we can drop the political economics and stick to the original subject?

The original subject has nothing to do with producing cheap hardware versions of existing products. It has nothing to do with the purchasing power (or lack of) of potential customers.
dan_p
thumbs up

chamomileshark wrote:

The original subject has nothing to do with producing cheap hardware versions of existing products. It has nothing to do with the purchasing power (or lack of) of potential customers.
bwhittington
Blingley wrote:
bwhittington wrote:
Blingley wrote:

Ethics are a luxury. A lot of people making music today are not able to afford them.


That is a truly shocking, dispiriting view.


Perhaps, but it's true - and probably going to not only stay true, but to accelerate into the near future.


I think I may have been misunderstood. I consider your conclusion and the fact that someone would draw such a conclusion to be shocking and dispiriting. You seem to think your opinion represents the state of the world. I see it more as an absurd notion in support of your consumer habits (or your internet arguments, or whatever). I'm sure you are a great guy in real life and aren't reading your comment in as horrifying a light as I am. I'm hearing that ethics, the foundation of society in my view, are trivialities next to you being able to buy cheap gear. For the sake of, you know, all mankind, I'll hope your wrong on that one.

For what very little it matters, I'd definitely take surviving European folk music traditions over the modern Euro/synth scene. hihi
Blingley
bwhittington wrote:


I think I may have been misunderstood. I consider your conclusion and the fact that someone would draw such a conclusion to be shocking and dispiriting. You seem to think your opinion represents the state of the world. I see it more as an absurd notion in support of your consumer habits (or your internet arguments, or whatever). I'm sure you are a great guy in real life and aren't reading your comment in as horrifying a light as I am. I'm hearing that ethics, the foundation of society in my view, are trivialities next to you being able to buy cheap gear. For the sake of, you know, all mankind, I'll hope your wrong on that one.

For what very little it matters, I'd definitely take surviving European folk music traditions over the modern Euro/synth scene. hihi


For whatever it's worth, I own neither Arturia nor Behringer products. But I also come from a wealthy European nation, and have lived my entire life in relative luxury. I can factor ethics to my consumption habits. Presumably, so can most people on this forum. Modular synths are not a cheap hobby.

But I've certainly been to places and met people who can't. And yet I believe these people deserve to have access to instruments that allow them to compete in the global music market; that they have meaningful contributions to make. So people - especially people living in privilege - making blanket statements about manufacturers catering to this market and the people buying their products really rubs me the wrong way.
papz
chamomileshark wrote:
The original subject has nothing to do with producing cheap hardware versions of existing products. It has nothing to do with the purchasing power (or lack of) of potential customers.
Misk
Blingley wrote:

Ethics are a luxury. A lot of people making music today are not able to afford them.



lol this shit is straight tone deaf — Are you seriously suggesting that there's a relationship between wealth and ethics?

go back to reddit.
lud
There are more important things than modular synths blingley, ethics are one of them. The poor are the ones being exploited to make knock off Synthis and Moogs. Arturia are almost like scammers the way they're treating the industry
chamomileshark
Now out

https://www.arturia.com/products/analog-classics/synthi-v/overview

Just watched the videos and listened to the sound demos and I have to say it has absolutely nailed the sound of an Arturia software synth.

Listened to the Mellotron and that sounds nothing like any Mellotron I've heard either...
richard
I don't care two figs about the product but I'd sure like to massacre their copy writer
ryangaston
richard wrote:
I don't care two figs about the product but I'd sure like to massacre their copy writer


Was thinking exactly the same thing confused
Siren
I don’t know it for a fact that Arturia keep releasing the same exact software synth under different names.
I just know it’s true..

razz
ArguZ
The funny thing is that most synths are very much the same in the hands of new people.
That explains the success of the Access Virus.
Anyway, their predatory politics aside , isn't it time for some AB comparisons ?
Maybe a vintage vs a Clooney vs Arturia ?
Graham Hinton
The real difference is that many people have got through a gig using an EMS Synthi without it crashing, and still do after 50 years. If you don't like a particular part of the design it can be fixed. That's not a reputation that Arturia have earned...
This picture on a screen is as much a Synthi as a Beat Step "Pro" is professional.
seamonkeyman
Just listened to the demos, and as above, it sounds nothing as in NOTHING like a Synthi.

I'm lucky enough to have an AKS and a VCS3 at arm's reach to attest to this. help

Despite the somewhat weird sixth form political ramblings above, I can also confirm that although I have access to these great synths, I'm not part of the 'bougie' (sic) (bourgeoisie?), (but yes Sir, I can boogie).... nanners

FWIW, I've previously been very broke, homeless, eating instant noodles with a coathanger as I didn't have a fork level of poor, and I can absolutely confirm that at that time I wasn't that bothered about having a 'voice in the culture of our planet'. That's a totally mental perspective, I was very concerned with basic survival at the time, but anyway I don't want to encourage the armchair revolutionaries to dive back in.

The ethical thing here to me is important, just because something is possible, and perhaps everyone else is doing it, doesn't make it necessarily 'right'. Grabbing somebody else's stuff is never cool, whether it's conducted through some legal process or otherwise is irrelevant, if Arturia snagged the 'Synthi' name, by anything other than a direct approach to Robin Wood to me is a deal breaker in buying any more of their shonky stuff. (Sorry, had to get that in as my Minibrute fell to bits).

Before a gang of Che Guevara acolytes pile on me for being a covert 'bougie', I'm personally so far left of centre that you're wasting your time, and I didn't acquire my stuff through exploiting the proletariat. (mods please forgive me for skirting politics in a vague attempt at humour).
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