Max/MSP -> Silent Way

Discussion and support for Expert Sleepers' Silent Way software and hardware.

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JP
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Max/MSP -> Silent Way

Post by JP » Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:46 am

Anyone written any patches for controlling silent way from Max? I'm assuming the OSC vst is the way to go.

I was thinking about a setup where I could control a lot of the modular using my monome without needing to have abelton in the control mix.

Figured I'd ask if anyone had ventured into this realm before I go stumbling off, nothing worse than spending hours banging your head against the wall to only later to discover "Oh I tried that, here's a comprehensive FAQ about the process" exists somewhere.

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Post by nickciontea » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:11 am

i know people have.. maybe not using silent way.. but defintiely max and modular.. i hope to get into this in the next year as well..

hopefully someone speaks up

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Post by JP » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:28 am

I just skimmed thru the manual for silent way and I can find reference to OSC being part of the VST's but I can't find mention of what the "api" is, so what values are accepted when doing the osc. Is this detailed somewhere else?

Complete side bar, but it would be AWESOME if there was a max/msp external I could just drop in and use that outputs the expected audio that the ES-1 can use.

It would make developing my own LFO type interfaces really easy and flexible, and would allow me to not have to rely on a vst.

Even a commercial one would be fine ;)

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Post by os » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:35 am

The Silent Way manual mentions that the OSC details are in a separate manual, which you'll find on the downloads page on my site.

As well as the default OSC implementation, you can use scripts to register new OSC paths for Silent Way and so have it respond to pretty much anything you like.

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Post by JP » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:47 am

Ahhha, there it is, down the very bottom, awesome thanks.

So out of curiosity, is the audio that teh VST sends super secret and that's teh special sauce or do you think that's something that could be replicated in Max.

(I know selling VST's pays the bills, so I won't be insulted if you say it's not something you'll ever want to share :-)

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Post by os » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

I don't think it's any secret how the AC Encoder works - it's just amplitude modulation of a high frequency signal.

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Post by JP » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:43 am

Read through the two manuals on OSC and I need to sit down and try a few things out, but does anyone know any example patches that might show something simple like how to control a single voice with OSC from max.

I'm assuming I just need something like…

/set i:param f:value

where param is the voice out and value is the, well, the value.

Is there a list anywhere of the most likely used params and their value ranges?

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Post by JP » Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:36 pm

I'll just try some stuff out tonight, but what sort of level of "high frequency signal" are we talking about.

I was planning on just creating a simple MAX/MSP patch where I can control the pitch of the audio and just keep pushing it until I get some notes out of my ES-1.

I'd love to be able to use all the MSP functionality for creating programmatic ES-1 CV outs for LFO's etc.

It'll never be as accurate as octave calibration stuff, but just getting a full swing LFO straight out of Max/MSP would be awesome.

Any tips hugely appreciated, I'll happily share my adventures.

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Post by Oldstench » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:38 pm

Couldn't you use the DC plugin and have MAX send CC messages to it? CC 2 is the bi-polar level. I'm not a MAX guy so I don't know how (non) trivial that would be, but that's how I'd do it in Reaktor.
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Post by JP » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:50 pm

I'm hoping to avoid sending midi from max to silent way, seems to defeat the purpose.

OSC from max to silent way would better as the scale is much much bigger.

But now I'm thinking if I can just have Max/MSP output the same "audio" that silent way does, I can just go straight from max to the es1 which then gives me loads of freedom to go crazy.

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Post by os » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:26 pm

Yup, that should work fine. Just pump out some audio and see what you get from the ES-1.

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Post by JP » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:59 pm


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Post by Bricks » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:40 pm

I assume your interface is using either a 16 or 24bit DAC? Are my ears crazy, or was that a lot of stepping for that resolution?

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Post by os » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:31 am

Shame the ES-1 isn't visible in the video!

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Post by JP » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:16 am

os wrote:Shame the ES-1 isn't visible in the video!
:D Sorry, next one I promise it will be, it's because it's in a different enclosure sat on the top, and I had to zoom in this tight to be able to see the hz values on the osc.

Next one I'll make sure it's in shot - would be awesome if I was able to add some fancy looking flickering led's as well ;)

I brought the es iphone app last night, which was interesting. The example above, I'm using a very low frequency and changing the amplitude, but on the iphone app, it sounds like the frequency is super high.

Is there a better frequency I should be targeting?

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Post by JP » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:24 am

Bricks wrote:I assume your interface is using either a 16 or 24bit DAC? Are my ears crazy, or was that a lot of stepping for that resolution?
Not sure I fully understand the question, there is no "DAC" persay, it's just audio being output from Max/MSP that is handled by the ES-1 module and converted into a CV.

The max/msp audio out should have great resolution

http://www.cycling74.com/docs/max5/tuto ... dioio.html

I suspect I was sliding jerkyly, next demo I'll throw in a smooth lfo that you can control the speed of, see if that shows the smoothness better.

It might also be my crazy setup to get this recorded which was a line-in-out passthru, being recorded by snapz pro. Pretty sure there's huge latency in that setup.

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Post by skweeegor » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:22 am

edit: nm, got it

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Post by JP » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:31 pm

More updates coming soon, I managed to work out how to do some interesting wavetable things.

and then that got me thinking, am I being crazy or could you actually use the output straight from an ES-1 out as an oscillator? Like a wavetable oscillator?

Presumably if I pipe a oscillating audio into the es-1 and out into a oscillator module I'm going to get some crazy mashed up wave nutiness?

Still hoping to find out if there's an optimal frequency I should be outputting to the ES1

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Post by dalasv » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:08 pm

I'm enjoying watching your progress.

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Post by mr chombee » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:44 pm

^ Me too.

However, can't you just simply load the SilentWay AC Encoder plugin into Max/Msp to drive to ES-1? I have never really used the vst~ object, but I assume that it lets you use ordinary VST plugins inside Max.

@ os: It would be nice if the AC Encoder would be available as a separate product. This could be a cheap solution for all Max / Max for Live folks.

That having said, SilentWay is already quite affordable. :party:

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Post by JP » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:26 pm

mr chombee wrote:^ Me too.

However, can't you just simply load the SilentWay AC Encoder plugin into Max/Msp to drive to ES-1? I have never really used the vst~ object, but I assume that it lets you use ordinary VST plugins inside Max.

@ os: It would be nice if the AC Encoder would be available as a separate product. This could be a cheap solution for all Max / Max for Live folks.

That having said, SilentWay is already quite affordable. :party:
Now that is an idea, I've never used the vst~ object, I might have to look into that. Not sure what I'd pass into the AC Encoder though, looks like Max is waiting for something in, before it does audio out.

Awesome idea BTW, I'd much rather use SW (since I think there is some magic in here I'll never get) and whole heartedly recommend others to get it.

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Post by JP » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:30 pm

Image

This is my current status, 2 channel wavetable to es1 max patch, the final aim is to get it built so that the wavetables can be "drawn" using the monome 256 or 128.

But for now you can draw them in real time with a mouse, and slide the frequency bars below them to change the speed at which Max loops through the table, goes from 1hz up to stupid high pitched whining.

Source will be published shortly, just got a couple of things to tidy up.

I also think I have it backwards, I'm changing the frequency, whereas I think the ES wants a change in amplitude, so I might need swap that round a little.

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Post by JP » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:01 pm

Well now.

I might need to rethink much of this. Getting the silent way vst's into Max and playing nice was a breeze. If I can just hook them up to my wavetable thing, this might be a much easier approach.

Image

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Post by JP » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:48 pm

Oh yeah, this is very very much easier. I have a giant grin on my face.

[video][/video]

Last edited by JP on Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by knobs. » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:39 am

oh, please tell me you're going to make a monome patch!

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