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Embarrassing question about 5U...
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Embarrassing question about 5U...
D/A A/D
Ok... I have always been the dark about 5U.

Whats the difference between MOTM and Dot Com??? They both run @ +/-15v, they are the same height, they both use 1/4"... Also which format is Modcan B???

What the differences???

very frustrating

Alex
parasitk
D/A A/D wrote:
Ok... I have always been the dark about 5U.

Whats the difference between MOTM and Dot Com??? They both run @ +/-15v, they are the same height, they both use 1/4"... Also which format is Modcan B???

What the differences???


Different widths.

MOTM is 5v pk-pk. DotCom is 10v.

Modcan B is MOTM format for all intents and purposes - I believe you just need to get it with 4pin connector for power.

I think that covers it, I'm sure someone else will add or correct me! smile
consumed
modcan B is MOTM-format
dotcom and MOTM-format are not compatible re: mounting; however, with care you can mount MOTM modules in a dotcom cabinet.

dotcom uses .1 headers for power connections, MOTM uses .156 just like blacet
modcan B uses .156 3-pin connectors so a simple adapter cable is necessary for connecting to blacet or MOTM power/distribution boards
D/A A/D
parasitk wrote:
D/A A/D wrote:
Ok... I have always been the dark about 5U.

Whats the difference between MOTM and Dot Com??? They both run @ +/-15v, they are the same height, they both use 1/4"... Also which format is Modcan B???

What the differences???


Different widths.

MOTM is 5v pk-pk. DotCom is 10v.

Modcan B is MOTM format for all intents and purposes - I believe you just need to get it with 4pin connector for power.

I think that covers it, I'm sure someone else will add or correct me! smile


I figured it was something along the lines of power peripherals... Dot Com was always tempting because of the price, but 10v is scary with regards to incorporating it with my eurorack.

I have been tempting the idea of a simple Modcan A, but with the only other manufacturer being Cynthia - in light of her recent flakiness I rather go with a format with more options.

So other than price what are some of the reasons people go with Dot Com over MOTM?.
MrDys
DotComs also have Moog-style power connectors. Though, this can be gotten around with a $34 adapter board.

Bruce is happy to make MOTM-style power cables for Modcan B modules (that's how mine are coming). Or you could make them yourself.

The biggest difference/annoyance between the two formats is racking. Them holes just ain't gonna line up.
D/A A/D
MrDys wrote:
DotComs also have Moog-style power connectors. Though, this can be gotten around with a $34 adapter board.

Bruce is happy to make MOTM-style power cables for Modcan B modules (that's how mine are coming). Or you could make them yourself.

The biggest difference/annoyance between the two formats is racking. Them holes just ain't gonna line up.


That's too bad because the Dot Com rack frames are really nice. I also enjoy the price of the Dot Com shit...
JohnLRice
parasitk wrote:


MOTM is 5v pk-pk. DotCom is 10v.


Off the top of my head I thought both MOTM and DotCom are 10v and it's the MODCAN that is 5V???
parasitk
JohnLRice wrote:
parasitk wrote:


MOTM is 5v pk-pk. DotCom is 10v.


Off the top of my head I thought both MOTM and DotCom are 10v and it's the MODCAN that is 5V???


That's quite possible! Though I seem to remember something about the MOTM Frac modules being 5v? Maybe I'm on crack?
consumed
0-10v is pretty common for CV outputs in all formats
-5v - +5v is pretty common for audio outputs in all formats
however, some modules do put out just 5v CVs like motm EGs
modcan puts out -2.5v - +2.5v audio in many modules
you really have to check the manufacturer site for details on the particulars.
JohnLRice
Synthesis Technology FAQ:
https://www.synthtech.com/motmfaq.html

Synthesizers.com technical:
http://www.synthesizers.com/technical.html

MODCAN technical:
http://www.modcan.com/info.html


DotCom has a handy compatibility chart for a majority of all synth modules:
http://www.synthesizers.com/formfactors.html
JohnLRice
parasitk wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
parasitk wrote:


MOTM is 5v pk-pk. DotCom is 10v.


Off the top of my head I thought both MOTM and DotCom are 10v and it's the MODCAN that is 5V???


That's quite possible! Though I seem to remember something about the MOTM Frac modules being 5v? Maybe I'm on crack?


No, you weren't on crack, I just need a smack! Smacked in the head with a trout

I checked my MOTM-310 manual and it says " . . MOTM uses de facto +/-5V pk-pk waveforms . . "
NV
D/A A/D wrote:

That's too bad because the Dot Com rack frames are really nice. I also enjoy the price of the Dot Com shit...


Bridechamber makes rack rails specifically for this purpose. You screw them into the wood and then mount MOTM-format modules into the metal of the rails. It's a bit more money but not enough to deter purchasing a cabinet from Synthesiers.com, which is still one of the more attractive yet affordable means of racking 5U short of hiring a carpenter.

Here's the link: http://www.bridechamber.com/bridechamber.com/Cab%20Mounting.html

You can also drill the MOTM-format screws directly into the wood, which is the default method of racking Synthesizers.com modules. Whether or not this is as reliable as metal rails is mostly a matter of personal experience, so it may or may not work out for some.
JohnLRice
parasitk wrote:
D/A A/D wrote:
Ok... I have always been the dark about 5U.

Whats the difference between MOTM and Dot Com??? They both run @ +/-15v, they are the same height, they both use 1/4"... Also which format is Modcan B???

What the differences???


Different widths.

MOTM is 5v pk-pk. DotCom is 10v.

Modcan B is MOTM format for all intents and purposes - I believe you just need to get it with 4pin connector for power.

I think that covers it, I'm sure someone else will add or correct me! smile


Synth Tech MOTM uses more expensive pots, jacks and switches than DotCom. These are 'better' components in general but the advantages are debatable. I'm a MOTM 'believer' so that's why I went with Synth Tech as my main system. Not sure how ModCan compares.

Due to the very thick panels and type of jacks used for the MOTM modules, plugging a patch cord in offers little resistance and is very quiet. The same action on a DotCom module offers more resistance and is louder. Both are nice though. With the DotCom it's like loading a cartridge into a high powered bolt action rifle :gun: and with the MOTM it's like sliding your manhood into an 'eager' lover! Hug Both can be very satisfying! hihi

The only other difference I can think of is that with MOTM the circuit boards are almost always mounted perpendicular to the panels and with the DotCom the circuit boards are mounted parallel to the panels. So, with the DotCom a much shallower cabinet can be used.
JohnLRice
NV wrote:
D/A A/D wrote:

That's too bad because the Dot Com rack frames are really nice. I also enjoy the price of the Dot Com shit...


Bridechamber makes rack rails specifically for this purpose. You screw them into the wood and then mount MOTM-format modules into the metal of the rails. It's a bit more money but not enough to deter purchasing a cabinet from Synthesiers.com, which is still one of the more attractive yet affordable means of racking 5U short of hiring a carpenter.

Here's the link: http://www.bridechamber.com/bridechamber.com/Cab%20Mounting.html

You can also drill the MOTM-format screws directly into the wood, which is the default method of racking Synthesizers.com modules. Whether or not this is as reliable as metal rails is mostly a matter of personal experience, so it may or may not work out for some.


Or another option would be to get a 10U high rack like this http://www.audiopile.net/products/Cases/RUE-10_series_rack_cases/R10UE -10_cutsheet.asp and put in one DotCom frame and a pair of MOTM rails.
suitandtieguy
JohnLRice wrote:
Synth Tech MOTM uses more expensive pots, jacks and switches than DotCom. These are 'better' components in general but the advantages are debatable.


the MOTM parts are more expensive. however, the Dotcom parts are easier to replace when they fail. MOTM pots are soldered to the board, Synthesizers.com pots are on wire harnesses with .1 headers.*

and parts _will_ fail. maybe not for 40 or 50 years, but at some point you're going to have to replace a mechanical component.

also, since the dotcom parts are easier to replace when they fail, they are easier to replace if you just want something nicer. see below:

JohnLRice wrote:
Due to the very thick panels and type of jacks used for the MOTM modules, plugging a patch cord in offers little resistance and is very quiet. The same action on a DotCom module offers more resistance and is louder.


the thickness of the panels has nothing to do with insertion force. Synthtech MOTM modules use Switchcraft jacks, and dotcom modules use a different kind of jack of unknown origin.

my jacks are neither, and appear to be identical to Switchcraft 111 jacks, but have a firmer insertion force but not as strong as the normal Synthesizers.com jacks. these are also the same jacks that in Modcan B modules.



*I use exactly the same wiring scheme, with the same pinouts.
sandyb
if it helps at all, power requirements and distribution for the various 5U formats are covered here smile

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1739
D/A A/D
Wow! Thanks gang... My hope is to build a single 5U "rack" mostly for the Modcan VCDO, Miniwave, and CV Recorder - but I want some more mods in there... So MOTM would be where it is at I guess.

The plan all along was to buy a rack mount kit and a 5U rack...

Alex
thermionicjunky
One of the major drawbacks of Dotcom, particularly for those coming from a small format, is the width. One needs to commit to quite a sprawling system in order to achieve the complexity of other formats. However, if you have the space, the value is excellent. Some modules lack badly needed voltage control, like the EG, but a VC EG is most likely to be the next release. I reduced my system to one rack frame, though I had to sell some modules that I really liked, in order to make my use of rack space more efficient. The primary benefits are, as noted, the construction, shallowness, delivery time, value, very useful utility modules, and oddities like the Clipper/Rectifier (I still need to make a space for that - probably by replacing my multiple with a rack unit). I feel that it increases the utility of a Modcan and/or MOTM system dramatically.
D/A A/D
thermionicjunky wrote:
One of the major drawbacks of Dotcom, particularly for those coming from a small format, is the width. One needs to commit to quite a sprawling system in order to achieve the complexity of other formats. However, if you have the space, the value is excellent. Some modules lack badly needed voltage control, like the EG, but a VC EG is most likely to be the next release. I reduced my system to one rack frame, though I had to sell some modules that I really liked, in order to make my use of rack space more efficient. The primary benefits are, as noted, the construction, shallowness, delivery time, value, very useful utility modules, and oddities like the Clipper/Rectifier (I still need to make a space for that - probably by replacing my multiple with a rack unit). I feel that it increases the utility of a Modcan and/or MOTM system dramatically.


You have a Modcan/MOTM and Dotcom right???

How well do they all play together?
Suburban Bather
Another thing to consider is that Suit and Tie Guy is in the process of making a multi format power distribution board.

As far as Dotcom and MOTM goes, you could just build your own cab and pre-drill your mounding holes in the wooden rails as you add modules. Mounting hole distances between Dotcom and MOTM will no longer be a problem.
sandyb
i knew i had this somewhere. this might help when planning mounting dotcom and MOTM/Modcan B in the same case. in the space that 5 dotcom modules takes up you can fit 6 MOTM/Modcan B modules + 1/8inch gap.





sandy
JohnLRice
suitandtieguy wrote:
the thickness of the panels has nothing to do with insertion force.


Correct. But the insertion force combinded with the panel thickness/material affects how loud the sound of insertion will be. The DotCom panels are thin and resonant, the MOTM panels are thick and dead.

Flick an inflated ballon with your fingernail and then thump a tire with your thumb! razz Mr. Green
JohnLRice
sandyb wrote:
i knew i had this somewhere. this might help when planning mounting dotcom and MOTM/Modcan B in the same case. in the space that 5 dotcom modules takes up you can fit 6 MOTM/Modcan B modules + 1/8inch gap.





sandy


Well, the last time I challenged someone's info today I was wrong oops but . . . from what I know, in a standard 19" rack width you can fit the following in one row:

MOTM - 10 1U or 5 2U or 3 3U (with 1U left over)
DotCom - 8 1U or 4 2U or 2 4U or 1 8U
Suburban Bather
JohnLRice wrote:
suitandtieguy wrote:
the thickness of the panels has nothing to do with insertion force.


Correct. But the insertion force combinded with the panel thickness/material affects how loud the sound of insertion will be. The DotCom panels are thin and resonant, the MOTM panels are thick and dead.

Flick an inflated ballon with your fingernail and then thump a tire with your thumb! razz Mr. Green


I don't know John, on some modules the jack slides right in/out without making a loud ker-plunk sound and on others, I have to use a little bit of force to get the jack to plug in/out. Also, I have a variety of brands for the actual plug on my cables- Switchcraft, Neutrik, GH, etc... Some plug in/out with more or less ease within the same jack. It could also be the part of the jack that clamps down onto the plug needs to be pushed up or down a little.

Just some variables to think about.
sandyb
JohnLRice wrote:


Well, the last time I challenged someone's info today I was wrong oops but . . . from what I know, in a standard 19" rack width you can fit the following in one row:

MOTM - 10 1U or 5 2U or 3 3U (with 1U left over)
DotCom - 8 1U or 4 2U or 2 4U or 1 8U


ah yes - for 19 inch rack mounting with metal rails you are indeed correct smile
i should have said - the diagram refers to building a case and using wooden rails that you drill the mounting holes in yourself. makes it easier to mix and match the formats if you make the rails multiples of 5 dotcom/6 MOTM wide
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