MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

SilentWay RE Velocity Bug
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Expert Sleepers Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author SilentWay RE Velocity Bug
kresbeatz
Hi os!

I have ES-3 + ES-5 + ESX-8MDmkII and I have two questions.

1. I tried SilentWay Voice Controller RE and everything is working good except velocity. I'm familiar with all necessary routing (old user of your devices in other DAWs), but velocity is on fixed amount and it's impossible to change. Here I found the guy with the same problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpyvZ8Fq6Ww&t=8s
Can you comment on this? Is this a bug? Is it planned to be fixed?

2. Do you have any plans for releasing other Silent Way modules (especially ES-5 Controller) in RE format? Now I have to use VST version which is working fine but the routing is super cumbersome due inability of Reason to send midi directly to the plugin (it can send only to "physical" midi port, so I need to use virtual midi cables + bidule, which is not elegant at all)

Thank you for great devices, Igor.
os
I have no plans to develop any new REs or to further develop the Silent Way one.

It was a whole lot of effort for very little reward.
kresbeatz
os
Thank you for reply. Sad, but understandable :(
BasariStudios
Same here, Velocity SW in Reason does not work.
kresbeatz
BasariStudios

Yeah, the only alternative is using VST version, I guess. Not elegant, different interface, but at least it works. I'm not sure how hard will be to fix this velocity bug with existing SilentWay RE, but I have doubts that os will do it after his last reply smile
DJMaytag
os wrote:
I have no plans to develop any new REs or to further develop the Silent Way one.

It was a whole lot of effort for very little reward.

So if I bug was discovered, it wouldn’t be fixed?
DJMaytag
kresbeatz wrote:
Here I found the guy with the same problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpyvZ8Fq6Ww&t=8s
Can you comment on this? Is this a bug? Is it planned to be fixed?

If I understand it correctly, ANY velocity value will show up in the Scope RE as full volume. That’s the nature of digital audio, which is what the SW RE audio is outputting. This isn’t likely a bug with the SW RE, but how you are routing the signal out of Reason or from your hardware to your modules.

What exactly are you trying to control with velocity via CV in your modular or hardware synth?
kresbeatz
DJMaytag wrote:

If I understand it correctly, ANY velocity value will show up in the Scope RE as full volume. That’s the nature of digital audio, which is what the SW RE audio is outputting. This isn’t likely a bug with the SW RE, but how you are routing the signal out of Reason or from your hardware to your modules.

What exactly are you trying to control with velocity via CV in your modular or hardware synth?


It's not just Scope RE, Silent Way RE simply not generating velocities other than 127 I believe. I tried it with modular and with couple other synths (Moog Sub 37, Boomstar 4075) and they both are playing same velocity. So, it's clearly Silent Way RE bug, because with the absolutely same setup, with the same Reason if I use VST version of plugin everything is working with velocity.

I'm not a programmer, so I can't speculate how much time will take for fixing this annoying bug, but as I understand os clearly stated that he don't be even try to fix it due to no interest in the RE platform.

PS I'm trying to control amp envelope (so harder I press the key - louder the sound)
DJMaytag
kresbeatz wrote:
PS I'm trying to control amp envelope (so harder I press the key - louder the sound)

Right, but I’m pretty sure I’ve used the RE with a velocity output just fine, and I have to believe this would be a MAJOR oversight to include such a feature and not have it work.

What sort of audio interface are you using and how do you have it connected to the Sub37 and/or Boomstar?
kresbeatz
DJMaytag wrote:
kresbeatz wrote:
PS I'm trying to control amp envelope (so harder I press the key - louder the sound)

Right, but I’m pretty sure I’ve used the RE with a velocity output just fine, and I have to believe this would be a MAJOR oversight to include such a feature and not have it work.

What sort of audio interface are you using and how do you have it connected to the Sub37 and/or Boomstar?


I have RME UFX, but it doesn't matter. Without changing any connections I can just load VST version of SilentWay RE in the same Reason session and it works, so it is definitely not a connection/synth/interface/pc/es-3 problem. It simply not pass velocity I'm pressing to the output and send one fixed amount all the time. I don't know how to explain it more clearly, but I tried everything and my conclusion with 99.999999% confidence that it is just a bug.

I'm pretty sure you was mistaken about it worked before, but still if you can make it work, don't you mind to upload video and show how you did this?

PS My connections are very simple. Sub 37 is going to Input 1, Boomstar is going to Input 2 of RME UFX. ES-3 is connected via ADAT (I also have ES-5 and ESX-8MD, but it doesn't matter). Dedicated outputs of ES-3 channels are going straight to CV/Gate on my synths.

PPS I fully agree that this feature is absolutely major (considering the RE itself is not free), but still... What we can do? smile
DJMaytag
What are you using for CV outputs? The audio channels of the UFX, or something like and ES-3/8/4?
kresbeatz
DJMaytag wrote:
What are you using for CV outputs? The audio channels of the UFX, or something like and ES-3/8/4?


As I wrote I'm using ES-3 due the UFX is not DC coupled.
DJMaytag
Ok, so where are you connecting your velocity CV to on the Sub 37? On the Boomstar?
kresbeatz
DJMaytag wrote:
Ok, so where are you connecting your velocity CV to on the Sub 37? On the Boomstar?


On Sub 37 to "VOL CV", on Boostar to "VCA AM"

And to presume your question, the output light on ES-3 that is setup for velocity is blinking same red without any changes, so it's clear that ES-3 is outputting the same velocity doesn't matter how hard I press my keyboard.
DJMaytag
Can you load up your VST Voice Controller, and take a screen shot of the “outputs” tab?
kresbeatz
DJMaytag wrote:
Can you load up your VST Voice Controller, and take a screen shot of the “outputs” tab?


Of course, here you are:

Little explanation:

Audio IN2 - Boomstar (signal for tuning SilentWay)

Audio OUT1/2 - Master Speakers
Audio OUT15/16 - ES3 1/2 (pitch and gate)
Audio OUT17 - ES3 3 (velocity)
DJMaytag
15/16
17/18
19/20
21/22

These are your ADAT audio outputs to the ES-3?
DJMaytag
The problem is not in the RE, as what you think is velocity is actually an envelope output. Output #6 of the Voice Controller is set up to send velocity, so route that to output 17.

You’re going to find that the problem is in the VST, so there’s something else going on, and it’s NOT a problem with the RE.

My ES-3mk4 is lit up fully red when I route velocity to it, regardless of it’s the RE or VST. This is an interesting bug, and I suspect it could be something with our RME setup (I have an RME Digiface USB).
kresbeatz
DJMaytag wrote:
15/16
17/18
19/20
21/22

These are your ADAT audio outputs to the ES-3?


Yes, exactly. On Boomstar - 15 is going to CV IN, 16 to Gate IN, 17 to VCA AM. Velocity is responding correctly, no problems here.
DJMaytag
Ah, it looks like you have velocity scaling set to control ENV 1, which is why what you’re doing at least appears to work.
kresbeatz
DJMaytag wrote:
Ah, it looks like you have velocity scaling set to control ENV 1, which is why what you’re doing at least appears to work.


Of course, it always worked this way. However in RE version we have velocity max and min as well as dedicated velocity out and it's not working. I attached the screenshots of my RE connections. Seems very logical and easy to me, but it is not working.
kresbeatz
DJMaytag wrote:
The problem is not in the RE, as what you think is velocity is actually an envelope output. Output #6 of the Voice Controller is set up to send velocity, so route that to output 17.

You’re going to find that the problem is in the VST, so there’s something else going on, and it’s NOT a problem with the RE.

My ES-3mk4 is lit up fully red when I route velocity to it, regardless of it’s the RE or VST. This is an interesting bug, and I suspect it could be something with our RME setup (I have an RME Digiface USB).


Sorry, didn't see this message. Yes, I fully understand your point and I'm pretty sure that you're right. I just don't get why we have velocity output in RE plugin if it's not working as it should. I'm pretty much sure that it's not RME bug, because I also tried it with UA Apollo 16 and it was the same.
DJMaytag
kresbeatz wrote:
I just don't get why we have velocity output in RE plugin if it's not working as it should.

Again, I have the same problem with the VST, so it’s not the RE.

The way you have your SW VST configured, you are NOT outputting velocity. Your setup is configured to output SW VC’s Envelope 1, which is being controlled by velocity. It may well feel and appear as velocity, but it’s not velocity. Send output #6 of the SW VC to output 17, and you’ll see that pure velocity from the VST is doing the exact same thing.
kresbeatz
DJMaytag wrote:
kresbeatz wrote:
I just don't get why we have velocity output in RE plugin if it's not working as it should.

Again, I have the same problem with the VST, so it’s not the RE.

The way you have your SW VST configured, you are NOT outputting velocity. Your setup is configured to output SW VC’s Envelope 1, which is being controlled by velocity. It may well feel and appear as velocity, but it’s not velocity. Send output #6 of the SW VC to output 17, and you’ll see that pure velocity from the VST is doing the exact same thing.


I'd like to admit you are right, thank you for taking the time for explanation!
So my workaround with Env Amt is not working in Reason due missing Env and Env Amt control smile I hope it will be fixed, at least on VST version. I will check it today on UA Apollo one more time to be sure it's not RME problem.
DJMaytag
I have to believe that the problem lies elsewhere, as I seriously doubt that Os has made any software updates to the SW RE in quite a while.

What levels are you setting your Total Mix channels to, software playback and hardware outputs?

I’ve not used my RME for connecting to my modular much at all until now, though I’ve had the Digiface USB for almost a year now. I had a handle on using the ADAT outs of my old MOTU 828mk2, but maybe something is different in the Total Mix setup?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Expert Sleepers Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Page 1 of 2
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group