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so what is "Eurorack" and when did it start?
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Author so what is "Eurorack" and when did it start?
fireclown
Im sure a question that has been asked and answered repeatedly. I dont think I have seen satisfactory answers. Last I recall it boiled down to a 12v PS and a ribbon cable connector. That might be broad/specific enough, but I find it lacking. Any other thoughts on this historic trend?
Klangzaun
As it is alien technology brought to us from the future, it is hard to speak about history. lol
Rigo
http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm
ayruos
Just watch I Dream of Wires.
Bishop Dust
It is an industrial standard brought in the synth world by doepfer in the 90s. I don't know all the specs but it s about the power supply, panel size (3u), measurements (hps) and so on. Funny fact the train company here in Belgium uses the same standard for their electric devices in the train.
organon
http://www.doepfer.de/a100e.htm

Click the blue links for power specs and mechanical specs and so on. In what way is the answer "not satisfactory"?
fireclown
organon wrote:
http://www.doepfer.de/a100e.htm

Click the blue links for power specs and mechanical specs and so on. In what way is the answer "not satisfactory"?


or

http://www.dutchsynth.nl/Synton_synth_3000.html

"EuroRack in 1980 by Synton"
organon
Happens to have the same name, but is a completely different standard obviously. It's obviously not what this subforum is about and it's not what is generally understood under the name eurorack, so I still don't understand your confusion.
fireclown
organon wrote:
Happens to have the same name, but is a completely different standard obviously. It's obviously not what this subforum is about and it's not what is generally understood under the name eurorack, so I still don't understand your confusion.


If I am confused, it would be about who decides the "standard" since it seems to me the voltage supply is almost arbitrary, the ribbon connectors themselves are not standardized at all, despite some widespread conformity.

My recollection is Bob Williams and Dieter Doepfer arrived independently in the same place, both doing their best to resurrect synthesizers that were well out of production at that point.
Perhaps one or the other claims they were their first or that they all reached the same conclusion as they delivered products that were not exactly interchangeable without effort. how many pins on a Eurorack connector, and how many angels can dance?
Do bananas change anything?
organon
fireclown wrote:
who decides the "standard"


Popularity does. I don't think it needs to be ratified by the United Nations or something.
fireclown
organon wrote:
fireclown wrote:
who decides the "standard"


Popularity does. I don't think it needs to be ratified by the United Nations or something.


try applying that rationale to serious nomenclature. wont fly.
Hyberus
I think that although Dieter Doepfer was the first to use what we know as Eurorack technology for synthesizer modules the rack frame, PSU, ribbon etc. was already in use in computing/telecoms (which is where the idea of a standard 19" rack with 17" usable space and 1" rack ear on either side originates from)
Mikeyg3k
You are all wrong becaise Eurorack is a brand of Beheringer that makes mixers and such. Duh
jzwoopwoop
fireclown wrote:
organon wrote:
fireclown wrote:
who decides the "standard"


Popularity does. I don't think it needs to be ratified by the United Nations or something.


try applying that rationale to serious nomenclature. wont fly.


Wtf is "serious nomenclature"?

I think you're asking for something that can't be proved. There is no single, worldwide governing body of eurorack, and it's hard to see how that could ever exist (or why it should ever exist, for that matter). Given that, it seems only natural that "popularity" or the frequency by which a number of different manufacturers have adopted common traits would be completely valid.

EDIT: It should also be noted that what you personally find to be lacking has no bearing on this discussion. You can personally dislike something, and/or find an answer to be unsatisfactory. That doesn't actually mean the answer itself is unsatisfactory - it just shows what your subjective threshold is.
TemplarK
Analogue Systems isn't Eurorack, you can ask Bob if you like, Eurorack follows Doepfer 100 convention, cables from Analogue Systems converting it to Eurorack are available, on one end lies AS header and on the other Doepfer100(Eurorack).

It isn't as complicated as you think.
fireclown
TemplarK wrote:
Analog Systems isn't Eurorack, you can ask Bob if you like, Eurorack follows Doepfer 100 convention, cables from Analog Systems converting it to Eurorack are available, on one end lies AS header and on the other Doepfer100(Eurorack).

It isn't as complicated as you think.


Analogue.
fireclown
jzwoopwoop wrote:
fireclown wrote:
organon wrote:
fireclown wrote:
who decides the "standard"


Popularity does. I don't think it needs to be ratified by the United Nations or something.


try applying that rationale to serious nomenclature. wont fly.


Wtf is "serious nomenclature"?

I think you're asking for something that can't be proved. There is no single, worldwide governing body of eurorack, and it's hard to see how that could ever exist (or why it should ever exist, for that matter). Given that, it seems only natural that "popularity" or the frequency by which a number of different manufacturers have adopted common traits would be completely valid.

EDIT: It should also be noted that what you personally find to be lacking has no bearing on this discussion. You can personally dislike something, and/or find an answer to be unsatisfactory. That doesn't actually mean the answer itself is unsatisfactory - it just shows what your subjective threshold is.


Exactly.
jzwoopwoop
fireclown wrote:
Exactly.


???
flts
This is one of the things where opening Wikipedia actually produces satisfactory, if not completely error-free answers. The forum software doesn't like the links and hides my whole message if I try adding them, but go to Wikipedia and open "Eurocard" and "Eurorack" articles.

1) The original industry standard that Doepfer's "Eurorack" and a number of other 3U synthesizers were based on is the Eurocard mechanical standard (originally an actual industry standard), more exactly the 3U height Eurocard subracks.

2) The loose Eurorack "standard" itself sort of propagated organically from Dieter Doepfer's modular format and the specifications he wrote down.

The Wikipedia article on "Eurorack" also mentions eg. the aforementioned Synton system - it uses the same 3U Eurocard standard as mechanical basis but is not "Eurorack".

So "Eurorack" specifically refers to the Doepfer specification - mechanical, power, connectors and all, as detailed on Doepfer's page and in some parts (nominal signal levels!) neglected by everyone including Doepfer himself.

The fact that eg. Analogue Systems, Synton or Elektor Formant use the same "Eurocard" mechanical standard as basis is easily explained by the fact that standard 3U Eurocard subracks are easily and widely available in Europe, and have been so for decades and decades. And it appears Doepfer built eg. Elektor modules himself earlier, which was probably a factor in him choosing the same 3U industrial subrack system for his own A100 system.
flts
TL;DR:

Eurocard mechanical standard is what several European manufacturers have adopted for their modular systems, most probably because of the widespread availability, being used everything from lab gear to process automation hardware. Eurocard is an actual industrial standard (or actually, several different industrial standards) governed by eg. IEEE.

Eurorack is what was grown out of Dieter Doepfer's A100 system specification, when 3rd party manufacturers started offering modules for the same format. Eurorack is a number of loose de facto standards (thanks Wikipedia) that manufacturers generally follow to ensure at least some kind of baseline compatibility with each other. There is no governing body or certification involved, so calling it a "standard" with quotation marks included is probably the best approach here.

The mechanical standards in Eurorack are also based on Eurocard due to the use of Eurocard 3U subracks / frames in the system.
fireclown
TemplarK wrote:
Analogue Systems isn't Eurorack, you can ask Bob if you like, Eurorack follows Doepfer 100 convention, cables from Analogue Systems converting it to Eurorack are available, on one end lies AS header and on the other Doepfer100(Eurorack).

It isn't as complicated as you think.


this is well worth belaboring. If Bob Williams says his equipment is not "eurorack" than what is it? Having a good number of Doepfer and ASol modules in my ASys cases, which feature nice keyed sockets for these type of products, I would love to know the proper term for Analogue Systems module format. Obviously a reworked ribbon cable with a 16 pin connector will plug into my Doepfer cases. I suppose the bussed CV and Gate is a major difference.
Very good stuff, as is Analogue Solutions. Those freaking connectors are a difficult job to install. For certain I cant treat his modules the way I do Doepfers (like a patch cable laying around until I rearrange modules and use a loose one. Connectors sometimes get a little screwed up). Any problems I have had with A Sys pinned connectors is fairly easily straightened out. Yet to trash one completely, but I dont move them very often at all.
which forum is appropriate to discuss A Sys?
Multi Grooves
I've had my AS gear for a little shy of 20 years... Great as it is, I'd call it - based on its connector type - as nipple chafing or a fucking pain in the anus.

thumbs up
fireclown
Multi Grooves wrote:
I've had my AS gear for a little shy of 20 years... Great as it is, I'd call it - based on its connector type - as nipple chafing or a fucking pain in the anus.

thumbs up


nice piece!
KSS
fireclown wrote:
this is well worth belaboring. If Bob Williams says his equipment is not "eurorack" than what is it? Having a good number of Doepfer and ASol modules in my ASys cases, which feature nice keyed sockets for these type of products, I would love to know the proper term for Analogue Systems module format.

You just used it. Analogue Systems Module format.

Ever notice how the creators aren't usually the ones trying to fit into some box? No, that comes later, when the catalogue-ers feel the need to take something individual and perfectly ok as is, and try to assert some kind of new order to it. It already is. What it is. And has enough order without trying to haranque others into agreement about what to call something which already has a perfectly good name.

ASol and ASys format both work just fine as descriptive terms. As does Doepfer. No additional classification needed. Or useful.

The fact that "Eurorack" has come to be widely understood as being capable of supporting these different and already named formats is just fine. The fact that there are small differences which require adapters is also fine.

It appears you've created a problem in your head which doesn't exist and now need to find someoen to agree with you about its resolution.

My Eurorack system has Doepfer, ASys and ASol formats in it is a perfectly good and accurate statement.

Quote:
which forum is appropriate to discuss A Sys?

Now it seems you're just being intentionally dense. meh Provocative, moody, needy, combative also work. Guinness ftw!
fireclown
Quote:
which forum is appropriate to discuss A Sys?

Now it seems you're just being intentionally dense. meh Provocative, moody, needy, combative also work. Guinness ftw![/quote]

you know, at the risk of rewarding your personal attack here, I brought it up because of some discussion in another forum, thought I would see what people thought about it.
I also saw some other long time members remark on the change of climate here, which I cannot argue.

thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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