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Q962 problem
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules  
Author Q962 problem
Putte
I´ve had a growing problem with my Q962. The other day, it turned out it doesn´t work as it should at all.
First, there seemed to be a glitch in the third Signal input. Turning the cable around a bit helped.
Then, the third Signal input stopped working totally, so I just used the other two inputs.
A week ago, I noticed nothiing happened. It lit up, but nothing more. I can shift input manually, but that´s all.

I should mention that I´ve added a switch to get the single/double mode, but that was long Before the problems turned up.

Any ideas, before I turn to Texas?
Just me
Check your -15V rail. When my power supply started failing, the 962 and Quantizer started getting wonky.
Putte
Do you mean the Power supply in general? I have a QPS1 working for 44 U;s in two cabinets, and to power modules on the back. It should be more than well enough power. All the other modules work fine. My Quantizer, a M565, is in the same cabinet, but I don´t use it much.
I´m guessing, though, that you mean the just the -15V coming from the harness. I´ve switched cable, but I could perhaps do more.
JohnLRice
I don't have a Q962 anymore but just in case you haven't tried these things:

Verify that all of the MTA connectors that go to the panel controls are inserted into the headers correctly. If they are OK look closely to see if any of the wires have been pulled out, which may be hard to tell but use a strong magnifying glass to see if you can spot any that don't look as inserted as most of them. I say this since I'm assuming you took things apart to add a switch?

Reseat the chips by carefully but firmly pressing down on them. This is an "old trick" that may not be necessary but you never know. Google for more info.

Use a volt meter to check that the module is getting the correct voltages. It doesn't use much current except for the +15v rail:
Power: +15V@40ma, -15V@1ma, +5@1ma
Also make sure the on board regulator is creating the correct +12 volts for the lamps and that the associated capacitors look OK (not bulging etc).
Putte
Thanks, JLR, I´ll go over it again. Never heard of that chip trick.
JohnLRice
Putte wrote:
Never heard of that chip trick.
It's an old trick that is more related to old (and maybe modern) computer RAM, from what I remember. Sometimes oxidation can build up on the parts of the RAM pins and socket contacts that aren't touching each other initially and then if the chips work themselves loose a little bit the pins might get insulated by areas of oxidation. There is an issue with dissimilar metals too, like gold plated sockets and tin plated chip pins that cause a sort of corrosion, although I doubt that applies in the case of synth modules (no one uses gold plated sockets, do they? hihi ) Anyways, the trick was to reseat the chips and sometimes that's all it took to get a computer of device to work correctly again. If the chip happened to not be all the way down in the socket just pressing down on top of it might move it enough to improve contact. Other times it might take completely removing the chip and reinserting it but . . .in your case I really doubt this is going to help and I worry that if you don't have experience and the right tools for extracting and removing chips you might accidentally make things worse! MY ASS IS BLEEDING oops
gregae
JohnLRice wrote:
. . .in your case I really doubt this is going to help and I worry that if you don't have experience and the right tools for extracting and removing chips you might accidentally make things worse! MY ASS IS BLEEDING oops


What JLR said. And if you do remove the chips to reseat them, do them one at a time (obviously) and pay strict attention to the orientation. You don't want to plug them in backwards - that would be very bad. Dead Banana
Just me
My -15v rail from the ps failed and was only outputing 3volts. The lights out on the q962s was the indication. The quantizer had been weird just previously and was the reason I started pulling modules to check the power. The -15 section of the QPS3 failed. I have enough other power supplies that i just pulled it and ran a cable to the next cabinet.
Putte
The lights are all fine. It´s the 'gear shift', so to speak, that won´t switch, unless I do it by pushing the buttons myself.
Í think JLR:s old trick might be the best option, pushing the chips. I´ve checked the cables, as far as possible. It isn´t easy to sort out what goes where.
I haven´t got the system at home, so it´ll take a few days before I can try it.
JohnLRice
Putte, I can't remember if you checked this but have you verified that what ever module you are using to provide gates to try to switch the Q962 is producing gates at a high enough voltage? This could happen if the gate supplying module is going bad or the power supply is failing to provide enough voltage to it etc.
steffengrondahl
I believe I had a similar problem with two of my three Q962s. Shifting didn't work: Either the Q962 was in no stage (sending 0 V) or in a combination of stage 1 and 2 (sending the average of stage 1 and 2 inputs) confused Manually setting the stage (or setting it with gate) worked but when in stage 1 the Q962 will go into the no stage when receiving the next shift trigger. When in stage 2 (or 3) the next shift will bring the Q962 in a permanent stage 1 and 2 simultaneous eek! seriously, i just don't get it

Some investigations later (ruling power problems out) it seem to work when I attenuate (!) the shifting clock signal. It comes from the Moon 554 Clock divider and is probably too hot (+10)? It doesn't matter whether the attenuator is passive (used a Corsynth C109) or active (used a Q125), however decreasing the attenuation (or in other words turning the signal volume up cool hihi ) the Q962 will go into strange behaviour again.

So Putte, it might be worth sending the shift signal through an attenuator or signal processor.
Putte
You just won´t give up on me, will you? Thanks for all the help, guys, you might just be on to something.

First of all, the Q960 and the Q962 are patched exactly as suggested on the Synhtesizers.com homepage, just to be sure. The Output goes to the Offset VC of a krisp1 Croglin filter. In short, I was using the Q960 to control the filter, and I wanted more effect. Usually the the voltage output on the Three Q960 rows are set to X1, but in this case I turned them to X4. I had no idea two modules 'made for each other' could do that. I´ll try X1 tomorrow, and see if you´re right.

Still, I wonder if the problem doesn´t lie in the stage outputs, ending gate signal to the Shift input on the Q962. I can´t find any information on what voltage goes out there. Surely, that can´t be controlled by X1-4 switch..... or? Row 1 knobs turned to zero would then have solved the problem, right?
Putte
Thanks so much, all of you. The problem/sollution laid in the voltage being fed into the Shift input. The lower section of a Q125, set to offset +0,2, helped. More or less wouldn´t work, but around +0,2 and all three inputs work.

The thing is that everything works perfectly when the Q960 clock is used, but recently a MIDI signal from a Roland Fantom G8 has been fed through a M553, into a M554, one of which outputs have gone to drive the Q960. Could there be too many links in the chain?
JohnLRice
Putte wrote:
Thanks so much, all of you. The problem/sollution laid in the voltage being fed into the Shift input. The lower section of a Q125, set to offset +0,2, helped. More or less wouldn´t work, but around +0,2 and all three inputs work.

The thing is that everything works perfectly when the Q960 clock is used, but recently a MIDI signal from a Roland Fantom G8 has been fed through a M553, into a M554, one of which outputs have gone to drive the Q960. Could there be too many links in the chain?
thumbs up

Are all the modules in the same cabinet and using the same power supply? If not and you are running some off of one power supply and some off of another power supply and you don't have the zero volt rails tied together with a very low resistance cable there "might" be a slight offset between the two systems that is causing the problem?

But, it could just be that the Moon modules aren't putting out enough voltage to switch the Q962? This could just be because of a slight difference of specifications between the two manufacturers or modules by one or both manufacturers are slightly out of spec for some reason?

I can't see the problem being "too many links in the chain" since the M553 and M554 are 'active' modules and there shouldn't be any weakening of the signal like you might get with passive modules.
Dilibob
steffengrondahl wrote:
I believe I had a similar problem with two of my three Q962s. Shifting didn't work: Either the Q962 was in no stage (sending 0 V) or in a combination of stage 1 and 2 (sending the average of stage 1 and 2 inputs) confused Manually setting the stage (or setting it with gate) worked but when in stage 1 the Q962 will go into the no stage when receiving the next shift trigger. When in stage 2 (or 3) the next shift will bring the Q962 in a permanent stage 1 and 2 simultaneous eek! seriously, i just don't get it

Some investigations later (ruling power problems out) it seem to work when I attenuate (!) the shifting clock signal. It comes from the Moon 554 Clock divider and is probably too hot (+10)? It doesn't matter whether the attenuator is passive (used a Corsynth C109) or active (used a Q125), however decreasing the attenuation (or in other words turning the signal volume up cool hihi ) the Q962 will go into strange behaviour again.

So Putte, it might be worth sending the shift signal through an attenuator or signal processor.
i had close to the exact same situaion, where one of two 962 was just doing funky stuff (both on the same power supply). I just ran the gates through a signal processor and it fixed it. My gut feel is something gets the relay/switches stuck, I think I was doing audio generation through the sequencer when it happened(and it continued thru a power cycle). Generally I don't worry about this at all, it's part of the quirks/charm of running analog gear and needing to know my system. So I just run triggers and gates thru something when I see it act up.
burdij
Does grounding all of the individual trigger inputs affect the operation of the module?
Putte
JLR: All but the M554 are in the same cabinet. Both of the cabinets are, however, powered by the same QPS1. I have four cabinets, the other two powered by a second QPS1, and they are all patched up together in other ways. The M554, being the heart of my blood system, clocks M569s in the third and fourth cabinets.

Burdij: Grounding the inputs? Not sure how you mean.
burdij
Take an output that is known to be low, like the output of an unused (but powered) ADSR, route it to a mult and then send three mult outputs to each of the three trigger inputs on the module.
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