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Greentea Looper Construction Kit for Kyma X Needed!!
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Software  
Author Greentea Looper Construction Kit for Kyma X Needed!!
pangea2003
Happy new year 2019 to all Muff Wigglers out there!

Guys, I need your help.

I have just purchased an old Capybara 320 with the intention to get Dennis Leas' Greentea Looping Construction Kit for Kyma X from Symbolic Sound.

http://www.loopers-delight.com/tools/greentea/LooperConstructionKit.ht ml

However, Symbolic Sound doesn't support Kyma X anymore, and the Looping Construction Kit for Kyma X has completely vanished online.
I haven't been able to find a single trail of the current details for Dennis Leas online yet..

So if any of you could just help me out on this I would be immeeeensely grateful.

Cheers,

Pepe
gosh
I'm running Kyma 7 rather than X but would have thought you could knock up what you want using the prototypes/existing sounds without add-on. Still, your best bet is asking on Kyma Q&A site I think:
https://kyma.symbolicsound.com/qa/

Ps. Enjoy!
pangea2003
gosh wrote:
I'm running Kyma 7 rather than X but would have thought you could knock up what you want using the prototypes/existing sounds without add-on. Still, your best bet is asking on Kyma Q&A site I think:
https://kyma.symbolicsound.com/qa/

Ps. Enjoy!




HI Gosh, much appreciated for your answer!

Please note that Symbolic Sound restricts the use of their forum exclusively to their current Kyma 7 users only.
So unfortunately, I am unable to register and post questions to other Kyma users on that link you sent me.

Symbolic Sound closed the old forum supporting Capybara users (quite a few still there) since 2014, and there is no way I can get in touch with other Kyma X users aside than trying on external forums like this one.

I guess this is something to keep in mind whenever Symbolic Sound releases a new box..?

Nevertheless, I'm new to Kyma so I can't afford to spend on a new Kyma system at this stage.
So I just thought that it would be wiser to give it a go first, and start learning Kyma before I commit to any of their current dsp boxes (they are not cheap..)

Just for you to know, the Looper Construction Kit was a sophisticated piece of work by Dennis Leas back in the day.

From Loopers Delight Archives:

"...my Looper Construction Kit (LCK) consists of several new Kyma Sounds, many of which are highly optimised DSP code chunks.

My hope is that with the LCK you can build nearly any kind of looper you want.

It has several Sounds which support recording, overdubbing, and playback.
Some of these provides syntonisation features down to the sample point level.

I have built true quad loopers, for example, that take four inputs and simultaneously loops them.

You can build Undo loopers that perform an undo function like the EDP.
Likewise with the EDP Multiply function, you can also construct a "Divide" function which fragments a loop (the inverse of the EDP Multiply).

Some LCK Sounds provide features like zero-crossing adjustment of recorded sounds.

Several of the LCK Sounds, which I group under the name "EDP Assistant", integrate the use of one or more EDPs.
You can move loops back and forth from the Kyma system to the EDP, for example, or from the EDP to the host computer's hard drive.

You can convert MIDI program change commands to the appropriate EDP note on/off commands so that you can use a greater variety of MIDI foot-switches to control the EDP..."


I use an EDP extensively so the whole point for me to get the Capybara was to extend my looping strategies in conjunction with the EDP if possible..

This would involve to learn how to implement 'Samlltalk' and learn their syntax in order to build effective scripts for looping algorithms.

Thus, the LCK would help me a lot towards that path, as well as using the DSP resources of the Capybara more efficiently..

As any other open platform, it takes time..
So to 'knock off' the LCK would take me a few years I reckon..?
Definitely way more time if I cannot share and learn the language with other Kyma users..

To be honest with you, I didn't know it was going to be so difficult to find and share algorithms with other Kyma users.

I really thought Kyma would be similar to other open architecture platforms such as Max MSP (great user community), and more 'open source'..?

Personally, I really think they are just shooting themselves on their feet by restricting the use of their old hardware boxes..

But hey, that's just my humble opinion so far.

So see how it goes..

Cheers,

p.
Nelson Baboon
i might be wrong, but i really don't think that symbolic sound doesn't allow registered capybara users onto their current forum. I think that there are plenty of people, especially those who had their capybara maxed out, who didn't upgrade. I don't think that they were all kicked out of symbolic sound forums.

I suppose that it's possible that if you bought a capybara used, and never arranged to register with them, that you wouldn't be allowed on, but then I think that you'd need to register the unit with them.

I might be wrong on all of this.....

I too was initially frustrated trying to resurrect the green tea software, which I bought at one time. I checked to see if I still had the sounds, but I guess I deleted it all years ago once it didn't work and I couldn't contact them.
flts
Probably an obvious one, but as you didn't mention - did you get in touch with Symbolic Sound via e-mail and ask about whether they have any contact information for Green Tea Software guy or something else they could informally help with regarding the problem? It's a small company and at least my experience from way back when I owned one of the units was pretty immediate - maybe they could quickly give a hand out of courtesy even if they don't officially support the hardware and version anymore?

(I know people generally do that as a first resort and the answer was "sorry, can't help" which is why they post on public forums online, but I suppose it never hurts to ask!)

FWIW, archive.org has the whole site including the LCK info: https://web.archive.org/web/20080216234448/http://www.green-teasoftwar e.com:80/lck.htm ... But that isn't of much use as they only list mail addresses and a postal box address.

FWIW Google search for Dennis Leas turns up things related to company called GH Accessibility: http://gh-accessibility.com/ / http://ghbraille.com/ ... Seeing it's involved with audio programming, possibly the same person - maybe ask the company if they have a clue?
pangea2003
Nelson Baboon wrote:
i might be wrong, but i really don't think that symbolic sound doesn't allow registered capybara users onto their current forum. I think that there are plenty of people, especially those who had their capybara maxed out, who didn't upgrade. I don't think that they were all kicked out of symbolic sound forums.

I suppose that it's possible that if you bought a capybara used, and never arranged to register with them, that you wouldn't be allowed on, but then I think that you'd need to register the unit with them.

I might be wrong on all of this.....

I too was initially frustrated trying to resurrect the green tea software, which I bought at one time. I checked to see if I still had the sounds, but I guess I deleted it all years ago once it didn't work and I couldn't contact them.



eeerm, yes you are totally wrong.

Kyma X users can only register to this dead forum:
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi

The current Kyma Q&A an other parts of the current Kyma Community can only be accessed by Kyma 7 registered users EXCLUSIVELY.

I'm telling you this right after regitering my recent purchase of a Capybara 320 on eBay and contacted Symbolic Sound for transferring and updating my current details with them..

Kudos

p.
pangea2003
flts wrote:
Probably an obvious one, but as you didn't mention - did you get in touch with Symbolic Sound via e-mail and ask about whether they have any contact information for Green Tea Software guy or something else they could informally help with regarding the problem? It's a small company and at least my experience from way back when I owned one of the units was pretty immediate - maybe they could quickly give a hand out of courtesy even if they don't officially support the hardware and version anymore?

(I know people generally do that as a first resort and the answer was "sorry, can't help" which is why they post on public forums online, but I suppose it never hurts to ask!)

FWIW, archive.org has the whole site including the LCK info: https://web.archive.org/web/20080216234448/http://www.green-teasoftwar e.com:80/lck.htm ... But that isn't of much use as they only list mail addresses and a postal box address.

FWIW Google search for Dennis Leas turns up things related to company called GH Accessibility: http://gh-accessibility.com/ / http://ghbraille.com/ ... Seeing it's involved with audio programming, possibly the same person - maybe ask the company if they have a clue?



Thanks for your help Flts!

Yes, that was the first thing I did.

I asked Symbolic Sound directly for the Greentea LCK or any info they could provide in order for me to get these modules..

Their answer:

"The Looper Construction Kit has not been available for 10+ years since Green Tea Software went out of business."


Thanks,

p.
pangea2003
flts wrote:
Probably an obvious one, but as you didn't mention - did you get in touch with Symbolic Sound via e-mail and ask about whether they have any contact information for Green Tea Software guy or something else they could informally help with regarding the problem? It's a small company and at least my experience from way back when I owned one of the units was pretty immediate - maybe they could quickly give a hand out of courtesy even if they don't officially support the hardware and version anymore?

(I know people generally do that as a first resort and the answer was "sorry, can't help" which is why they post on public forums online, but I suppose it never hurts to ask!)

FWIW, archive.org has the whole site including the LCK info: https://web.archive.org/web/20080216234448/http://www.green-teasoftwar e.com:80/lck.htm ... But that isn't of much use as they only list mail addresses and a postal box address.

FWIW Google search for Dennis Leas turns up things related to company called GH Accessibility: http://gh-accessibility.com/ / http://ghbraille.com/ ... Seeing it's involved with audio programming, possibly the same person - maybe ask the company if they have a clue?


I have also found two email addresses of Dennis Leas on Loopers Delight but they seem to be expired.

I'll try to send an email to that company you kindly suggested asking for him to see if there's any luck..

Cheers,

p.
bphenix
First all, congrats on getting a Kyma system. It remains my favorite musical instrument / environment / playground.

The LCK stuff was nice but you can create your own versions, I think there are some examples on the old wiki. It isn't particularly hard, especially if you download Pete's Microsound helpers from the old Tweaky that given you things like UpDown counters.

I'd be surprised if you can track down a copy to purchase. It was hard to even when Capy's were common once Dennis stopped selling it. All of those sounds (and more in a similar vein) have examples and prototypes in current default Kyma 7+ library.

As for SSC, my experience is that they provide outstanding support along with ongoing software updates for Kyma. Software upgrades are almost always free. There may have been paid upgrade with Kyma X but I think it was free or heavily discounted for most users and only paid if you bought used hardware, it so long ago I can't remember the exact details. Unlike almost all hardware providers, they provide trade-in programs when releasing new hardware.

I think that is source of the confusion is that there is a new and old forum aka the black Kyma.5 forum. I see you on the old forum which is actually the forum with the most activity and history so for Capy users that is by far the most useful. The new forum and additional resources are read view without registration so while you may not be able to post, you can still see the conversation about Kyma though not everything will work or be relevant since there are so many new prototypes and capytalk that only work on Pacaranas.

Btw, take care of the external hardware. It is nearly impossible to replace parts like the firewire box or the db25 cable (which is special and not really a db25 cable).
pangea2003
bphenix wrote:
First all, congrats on getting a Kyma system. It remains my favorite musical instrument / environment / playground.

The LCK stuff was nice but you can create your own versions, I think there are some examples on the old wiki. It isn't particularly hard, especially if you download Pete's Microsound helpers from the old Tweaky that given you things like UpDown counters.

I'd be surprised if you can track down a copy to purchase. It was hard to even when Capy's were common once Dennis stopped selling it. All of those sounds (and more in a similar vein) have examples and prototypes in current default Kyma 7+ library.

As for SSC, my experience is that they provide outstanding support along with ongoing software updates for Kyma. Software upgrades are almost always free. There may have been paid upgrade with Kyma X but I think it was free or heavily discounted for most users and only paid if you bought used hardware, it so long ago I can't remember the exact details. Unlike almost all hardware providers, they provide trade-in programs when releasing new hardware.

I think that is source of the confusion is that there is a new and old forum aka the black Kyma.5 forum. I see you on the old forum which is actually the forum with the most activity and history so for Capy users that is by far the most useful. The new forum and additional resources are read view without registration so while you may not be able to post, you can still see the conversation about Kyma though not everything will work or be relevant since there are so many new prototypes and capytalk that only work on Pacaranas.

Btw, take care of the external hardware. It is nearly impossible to replace parts like the firewire box or the db25 cable (which is special and not really a db25 cable).



Much appreciated for your guidelines.
It seems that it will be impossible to get the LCK at this stage as well as any development for my actual set up. It is what is.. (or what it was..).

I can't afford the price of a "new" SSC DSP unfortunately.
I think their choice of not integrating the IO's on the new boxes was a bad idea.. (for the users..)

Being able to 'watch' their new forum but unable to participate actively with other Capybara users doesn't make it happy to be honest with you. It's a great marketing strategy I have to confess..

Their old forum is completely dead I'm afraid, and I haven't found any useful resources for I want to do there so far.

I have found most of the interesting things on the also closed Tweaky website though.

I'm now looking tot meet and discuss algos with other Kyma X users out there if possible. So if you know about any other site with people like me I'm all ears.. smile

I can't imagine how to learn a new language just speaking to myself in a desert island.. but hey.. I have a dictionary!
So see what i can do with it..

But certainly, everyone must know that Robinson Crusoe survided thanks to his previous learning within society so he knew how to use and exploit efficiently the left resources from the sink ship in his deserted island..

There you go, a bit of socialism for the capitalist liberals out there!

Regards
(from the Kyma X savage of the island..)


p.
Be Sandy?
I'm guessing you have found, or are aware of, a couple of dictionaries to help you on your journey!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kyma-Sumofsines-Disco-Jeffrey-Stolet/dp/12579 79272/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1546590748&sr=1-1&keywords=kyma

http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Products/KymaXRevealed
pangea2003
Be Sandy? wrote:
I'm guessing you have found, or are aware of, a couple of dictionaries to help you on your journey!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kyma-Sumofsines-Disco-Jeffrey-Stolet/dp/12579 79272/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1546590748&sr=1-1&keywords=kyma

http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Products/KymaXRevealed



YUP, THANKS!

smuff
Just an FYI

I completely understand your frustration at not being able to access the green tea software. There are numerous bits of software that I have seen turn to vapour ware over time.

I just wanted to address the tone of your response. Symbolic Sound is a company of two (plus one admin) Not supporting old hardware is pragmatic choice not a marketing ploy to force you to upgrade. Carla and Kurt are committed and passionate about the platform and are striving always to keep it up to date and to respond to forum questions with limited resources in a timely manner. With that in mind it would seem reasonable to not support legacy items and forums.

There is no question that Symbolic sound are a company with all that entails but they are not a faceless conglomerate solely focussed on profit.

Nevertheless it was news to me that these options were closed to you as a Capybara user. My best friend still has one and we have one here at the Uni that I work in. Access to information and dialogue is key to those who still wish to use their systems

Perhaps by starting a Capybara forum somewhere you might be able to hook up with others. If you do I will post in the main SS forum so that those Kyma users can chime in.

P.S the old Kyma 5 forum is still working!. I was able to post. This surely means that other Capybara users are out there. You are not alone!! I know other Kyma users check in every now and then, I know I do!
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