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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Avoiding patch memories.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Avoiding patch memories.
Daionsavage
The "Modern Keepers" thread got me thinking. I realized that I have a problem with knob-laden user interfaces combined with patch memories. I only use my synths at home, i record one song at a time and I usually tweak the synts just before I use them. So... the Monologue was stuffed away whereas the Minibrute is still in use. The Sub 37 was sold after four months of aimlessly twiddling around. My Blofeld is only used as a master keyboard. I have a MFB Dominion X that was stowed in a box after the latest reorganisation of my workspace, but the dreadbox synths kept their places. I have a mantis case full of eurorack modules, I seldom patch complete patches within the rack, but patch a lot to my semi-modulars.

I do have a synth with patch memories that I used as a live instrument before I became a bass player: Roland JX-8P. It's almost untweakable in a live situation, and the UI is clean from knobs and sliders, I like it a lot!

I think this is because When I look at the knobs and sliders: my mind tells me what to expect.When there are no tweakable parts: my mind stays open and doesn't expect any kind of timbre before it reaches my ears.

So the point of this pointless observation is just to ask: do you recognize this line of thinking in yourself or am I a unique kind of idiot?
Fallen_lassen
You are a wysiwyg guy or girl hihi
Jason Brock
There's no right/wrong answer, just personal preferences. I can identify with what you are saying though.

I had a DSI Pro 2 for a while and I really liked the sound and programming possibilities. But when I tried to compose music with it, for some reason I would just wind up saving 11 slightly different versions of the same patch and then spend way too much time trying to decide which one I preferred. I sold it and now both my analog monosynths are the kind without patch storage. I feel like that forces me to record immediately when I find something I like, instead of continuing to tweak.

I did really like my old Juno-60, and that had patch storage with full slider control. But maybe it was because it was so simple and storage was very limited. I couldn't go crazy saving 1,000 different versions of sounds, I had to be selective.
anselmi
I use my Sub-37 a lot but never saved any patch on it...I think it´s because the storage method is somewhat cumbersome (as everything menu-driven in this synth) so I unconsciously avoid it...I realized I never missed it, so I think I´m ready for a Model D w00t
nuromantix
I've had my MKS80 / MPG80 for about 17 years and I've never saved a patch and never used a preset. I just make a patch, use it on a track, then start again.
IR
Daionsavage wrote:
I think this is because When I look at the knobs and sliders: my mind tells me what to expect.When there are no tweakable parts: my mind stays open and doesn't expect any kind of timbre before it reaches my ears.

So the point of this pointless observation is just to ask: do you recognize this line of thinking in yourself or am I a unique kind of idiot?

hmm, so you're saying you don't expect the ones with patches to sound like the patches displayed on the screen?
tehyar
It's common opinion in the synth community, especially here, that all presets are crap. Therefore, as soon as you save your sound as a preset, it's crap.

Sounds like you're doing it right. thumbs up
CF3
I'm all about patch memory at this point. I ditched all modular (after 20 yrs) and went to standalone synths w/ patch memory. Couldn't be happier. So much more productive for me. I'm not opposed to machines without memory, but if given the choice I'd take it. I never use a preset the way it was saved anyways. They're more like archetypes or starting points. It's just a big time saver.
gringostar
I realized this at the beginning of last year which is why I sold everything but my MS-20 and started a eurorack which will have only 2 menu divy modules, the most being a disting, since that's what I wanted no matter how cool the ER-301 might be.

I also jettisoned all my super amazing and deep pedals on my guitar board and now have a much more focused setup that's now even more enjoyable to play than my old one.

Sadly I also love samplers and a good one can never not be very menu divvy, but that and the modular being the only real sound creation stations I have, with each being two different ways to go there depending on my mood, means that I'm finding myself spending much less time endlessly tweaking things and more time writing music.
anselmi
tehyar wrote:
It's common opinion in the synth community, especially here, that all presets are crap. Therefore, as soon as you save your sound as a preset, it's crap.


hihi
Daionsavage
Yeah, ”this doesn’t sound like patch #32”

IR wrote:
Daionsavage wrote:
I think this is because When I look at the knobs and sliders: my mind tells me what to expect.When there are no tweakable parts: my mind stays open and doesn't expect any kind of timbre before it reaches my ears.

So the point of this pointless observation is just to ask: do you recognize this line of thinking in yourself or am I a unique kind of idiot?

hmm, so you're saying you don't expect the ones with patches to sound like the patches displayed on the screen?
GuyaGuy
anselmi wrote:
tehyar wrote:
It's common opinion in the synth community, especially here, that all presets are crap. Therefore, as soon as you save your sound as a preset, it's crap.


hihi
+1

Me, I love memory because sometimes I enjoy exploring patches with no specific musical goal and what results can sometimes inspire a new song weeks later. But sometimes I program something as needed on the fly and may not even save the patch.
luketeaford
It depends entirely on the interface. Elektron is a great synth for presets because the knobs are all meaningless so I never have to think about what I see on the synth being the source of truth or some saved preset. Brilliant and it's exactly the kind of synth you'd probably want to save presets on because editing is a bit of a pain with the menus (I still like it but I learned on a Roland JX-305 so I can understand that workflow).

With a Sub 37, I'd use my own presets but would modify to suit the occasion. I can see the need for a takeover or relative knob mode slowing me down and making me feel slightly disconnected.

I guess I would quickly adapt and accept the presets as a step in the process of using it as a go-to monosynth.
DeanG
I am very into the patch memory on my se-02. I like a lot of dynamic and fractured things and live interactions. I can set up patches with different relationships between them and sweep through them. The se02 song mode also allows patch changes and they can be sequenced. That said I can understand the OPs outlook as sometimes I just want to go to manual knob tweaks. I also find the patch memory can give me various starting points and of course helps me "remember" allowing me to work on a certain thing and variations over longer periods of time.
ObsoleteModular
Do you mean where you have a knob-laden synth with patches and you load a patch and the knob positions no longer correspond to their actual values?

Yeah that weirds me out too.

If I like a preset I'll use it and tweak cut off and resonance at the most. Otherwise I'll put the synth in 'panel mode' and work from scratch. For the latter it's generally a one off thing though. I'll rarely save the patch because it'd be a bit pointless. It's more a sound design thing, changing over time, dramatically.
ObsoleteModular
tehyar wrote:
It's common opinion in the synth community, especially here, that all presets are crap. Therefore, as soon as you save your sound as a preset, it's crap.

Sounds like you're doing it right. thumbs up


Manufacturers are getting smarter with their presets though and actually using respected artists to design them. Richard Devine (darling of the Eurorack fraternity) is forever at it, for example
starthief
Daionsavage wrote:
I think this is because When I look at the knobs and sliders: my mind tells me what to expect.When there are no tweakable parts: my mind stays open and doesn't expect any kind of timbre before it reaches my ears.


I totally agree. Pots that point to values that aren't the actual values drive me crazy. The interface is lying to me, and I won't have it.

I sold my Twisted Electrons TherapSID because of it. I got annoyed with Peaks for the same reason, and as much as I liked the concept of Frames, it has a similar issue.

This isn't a problem with rotary encoders with LED rings, but that's a relative rarity (probably due to expense). I'm generally not quite as happy with encoders with no feedback -- like Mimetic Digitalis for instance.

I avoid using presets when I use software synths too -- I only use synths that I think are fun to patch from scratch. LuSH-101, Aalto, Arturia Buchla Easel V, ChipSynth PortaFM, Cadmium, etc.

So I guess the pots with patch memory thing is the worst of both worlds -- a lying interface and presets hihi
DeanG
For awhile I was bugged by the lack of correspondence of my se 02 knobs and recalled patches, plus if you tweak the preset and you had something going in manual, that gets messed up. But I have learned to work with what it is and just save anything I want to go back to as another preset. For what I like to do the se-02 patch memory allows dynamic and timbre changes in sounds that simply can't be gotten from synths with no patch memory. In the case of the SE02 the patch memory, along with the sequencer with plocks etc, expands the minimoog idea into a different beast. And none of it has to be used if I want to manually tweak.
rowsbywoof
I think I lean your direction. If there are gobs of presets, I spend time clicking and experimenting with the sounds, and usually end up with just cool variants of someone else's patch. It's fun, but it doesn't usually lead me to anything I'm too excited about.

Set me in front of a Model D, SH101, or even a Monotribe, and I actually start dialing in cool stuff right away. I've sort of gone your route and focus on things that maybe take a little more set up, but I kind of dig that each time I mess with it, it's slightly different, which is a complete 180 of how I used to approach sounds and recording when I was younger.
Blairio
Presets are intended to showcase the capabilities of an instrument - nothing more. The fact that some presets (think of the DX7 or D50) were so good as to assume iconic status, is merely a side effect. When composers and musicians use these without any customisation, it gives the manufacturers massive free publicity - hence the whole endorsement industry.

Total Recall properly implemented is a great idea, which you can chose to use, or ignore. However, Total Recall that doesn't actually totally or accurately recall a patch, is a real pain in the butt.

There are lots of valid scenarios for using Total Recall - for instance reproducing live sounds created for a recording. Or, as a way of not having to reset few dozen knobs and switches on a synth on a poorly lit stage, as you move from one song to the next.
Daionsavage
Wigglers, you’re drifting away. I was talking about patch memories and why I have a hard time to attach to synths with many controls and patch memories. I wasn’t concerned at all about pre-fabricated presets.


(I am fully aware that the presets are yours to change, wipe away or keep. The general nagging on factory presets are just the naggers jealous way of saying ”i can do that too, and I would do it better than those who got to do it”)
tehyar
Daionsavage wrote:
The general nagging on factory presets are just the naggers jealous way of saying ”i can do that too, and I would do it better than those who got to do it”


Dayum, and here I was keeping my mocking indirect. hihi Smash!


edit: I've always thought that the best of both worlds was the Nord Lead 3. Wish more synths did that.
cornutt
One nice thing about the Juno 60/106 is the "manual" button. Hit that and instantly everything transfers to the panel. I also like the fact that these synths can change patches instantaneously. A neat glitch effect you can do with them is to build a bank of different patches and then sweep your finger back and forth over the patch select buttons.
cornutt
But to answer the original question: yeah, I love patch memory. Like GuyaGuy, I spend a fair amount of my time in front of the synths building patches, without any specific idea in mind. Later, I'll go back and review them, and sometimes get composition ideas from doing that.

I don't use many factory presets directly (except for the Solaris, which has some brilliant ones), but I use them a lot as starting points. Particularly when I've got something new and I'm trying to get the feel for patching it.
Blairio
Daionsavage wrote:
Wigglers, you’re drifting away. I was talking about patch memories and why I have a hard time to attach to synths with many controls and patch memories. I wasn’t concerned at all about pre-fabricated presets.


(I am fully aware that the presets are yours to change, wipe away or keep. The general nagging on factory presets are just the naggers jealous way of saying ”i can do that too, and I would do it better than those who got to do it”)


With respect - no, I don't think the discussion is drifting away. The thing that gives you presets is the same thing that lets you save your own unique patches - Total Recall (without which SSL desks would not have made such an impact).

On idealogical grounds we might kick against the notion that we should be able to recover a previously created sound - but the technology that lets you do this is pretty useful. And not having Patch recall is no barrier to someone hell bent on slavishly reproducing a modular patch they saw & heard on YouTube. It will just take them longer.
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