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Help me solve this compelling and complicated MIDI issue!
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear  
Author Help me solve this compelling and complicated MIDI issue!
12ian34
I've spent a long time trying to research this but I haven't really made progress so I think I might be lacking some knowledge on equipment or cables that could help me with this. Whilst I save up some money to take the plunge into modular, I thought I might as well get the most out of what I own. I know this forum is full of super-knowledgeable technical people and I'm sure this thread has the potential to help others relatively new into Synths and getting them all connected to each other!

My current setup, intentionally DAWless:
Behringer UMC404HD Audio Interface [UMC]
Elektron Octatrack MK II [OT] (Audio Out to UMC)
Korg Monologue [KM] (Audio Out to OT)
Korg Volca Beats [KVB] (Audio Out to OT)
Waldorf Blofeld [WB] (Audio Out to OT)

Objective:
DAWless loop-based jams using the OT as the master for everything. It has 8 tracks whch can be used for sampling along with another 8 tracks which can be used to control external gear via MIDI, receiving the audio. So, I'd like to be able to use the OT to control/sequence both the KM and WB via MIDI. Meanwhile, in testing out sounds I want to be able to play both the KM and the WB independently, both using the KM keyboard (I don't mind turning the volume of one of these down to only be able to hear the other). Also, I want to use the WB Multitimbrality thus being able to control multiple timbres independently through separate OT MIDI tracks, all via one cable.

The issue:
I currently have the KM MIDI Out and OT MIDI Out both going into the MIDI Splitter and feeding into the WB. This allows me to test out sounds on the WB both using the KM keyboard as well as control the WB via OT MIDI control. BUT, with this set up, I cannot control the KM from the OT via MIDI. One option is to run the OT MIDI Out into the splitter, and then to both the WB and KM, and separately run a MIDI Out from the KM to the OT. In my test, I've been able to control the WB by the KM through the OT (!) but the real big issue is that the KM MIDI Transmit and Receive Channel has to be the same! I've checked the KM Manual and this cannot change. Thus, this option means that given that the KM and WB must be on the same MIDI Channel, the OT will control both simultaneously with the same exact MIDI data. This also prevents me from using the WB multitimbrality.

Available MIDI Ports:
UMC: In, Out
OT: In, Thru, Out
KM: In, Out
WB: In

Currently owned cables:
MIDI DIN (Male to Male) x3
MIDI DIN Splitter (1 Male to 2 Female) x1

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this - I'm really confused by this problem and any help would be significantly appreciated! I hope I've explained this relatively complex problem clearly, please ask me questions if anything is unclear. Note that I'm happy to spend some money (<£100?) on devices that might help but I'm keen on sticking with the KM keyboard, rather than buying another MIDI keyboard.
Zenn
Short answer: currently this puzzle is unsolvable.

Unfortunately, I'd still advise a (cheap, e.g. Behringer) master keyboard and a midi cable.

so (midi-wise) you end up with
master keyboard->OT
OT -> Thrubox
Thrubox-> KM & WB

you could use something like a MidiPal, but... it just complicates things imo.
chvad
Grab a Kawai MAV-8. It's old and cheap. Just wait for one to pop up. It offers up flexible computer-less MIDI routing and will let ya' do all the junk ya' wanna do.
https://reverb.com/item/887515-kawai-mav-8
Panason
I second Zenn's solution.

Also, bear in mind that editing the Blofeld in Multi mode is a royal PITA .

The problem with using the OT as the master sequencer is its single MIDI out port, which means having to ensure all your synths are set to different channels. A good solution is to use fewer synths. razz
CF3
If you want to use the OT as the master and control the other gear with the Monologues keyboard, disable the LOCAL on the Monolgue. This basically seperates the Monologues keyboard from its synth engine. That fixes the midi “IN” problem (midi out of the KM into the ON of OT). Now to fix the “out” side, a MIDI THRU BOX is needed. Like one IN (from the OT) and four OUTS, for instance. Go midi out of the OT into the Thru Box, then out of the Thru Box into the various devices you want to control and sequence. Choose the midi channel you want to control on the OT track.
acidbob
I have been thinking a little bit and the only solution I seem to end up with is either a master keyboard and a thru box. Connect the master keyboard into the OT and pass this to thru and into the thru box, and you go out from the OT into the thru box.

Another solutions is to re-route the midi channels, either by software https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=300566, which would be ok if you have a soundcard with midi, mind you this is just for playing the KB. Or you get a physical device, like the midipal or http://www.midisolutions.com/prodrte.htm

The whole problem seems to be the KM. Where the in channel has the be the same as the out channel.

Now, one last thing, the WB has keyboard split and range, this way you could actually use the same channel for both synths, with different ranges on the keyboard eek!
flashheart
CF3 I think has the right solution. Also, while it can work you shouldn't use a splitter to join 2 MIDI streams. The only way to correctly join 2 streams is a MIDI merger.
DiscoDevil
CF3 wrote:
If you want to use the OT as the master and control the other gear with the Monologues keyboard, disable the LOCAL on the Monolgue. This basically seperates the Monologues keyboard from its synth engine. That fixes the midi “IN” problem (midi out of the KM into the ON of OT). Now to fix the “out” side, a MIDI THRU BOX is needed. Like one IN (from the OT) and four OUTS, for instance. Go midi out of the OT into the Thru Box, then out of the Thru Box into the various devices you want to control and sequence. Choose the midi channel you want to control on the OT track.


This.
gruebleengourd
12ian34 wrote:

Objective:
DAWless loop-based jams using the OT as the master for everything. It has 8 tracks whch can be used for sampling along with another 8 tracks which can be used to control external gear via MIDI, receiving the audio.

I'd like to be able to use the OT to control/sequence both the KM and WB via MIDI.

I want to be able to play both the KM and the WB independently, both using the KM keyboard (I don't mind turning the volume of one of these down to only be able to hear the other).

I want to use the WB Multitimbrality thus being able to control multiple timbres independently through separate OT MIDI tracks, all via one cable.

Available MIDI Ports:
UMC: In, Out
OT: In, Thru, Out
KM: In, Out
WB: In

Currently owned cables:
MIDI DIN (Male to Male) x3
MIDI DIN Splitter (1 Male to 2 Female) x1


Get a MX-8 midi patchbay.
OT midi out -> MX-8 input 1
KM midi out -> MX-8 input 2

MX-8 output 1 -> KM
MX-8 output 2 -> WB
MX-8 output 3 -> OT

now in the patchbay configuration.
set output 1 to transmit data from input 1
set output 2 to transmit data from merged input 1 and 2
set output 3 to transmit data from input 2

that's the basics.. if you need to rechannelize the ouput of the KM you can do this

http://www.voodoolab.com/manuals/mx8_manual.pdf

Should be available for less than 100 quid used.

The biggest issue I see is if you want to be demoing different blofeld patches in a multi timbral setup from the KM. You can handle this by saving different presets in the MX-8 that maps input 2 to different midi channels and switching between them.
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