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serge alike setup in eurorack
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author serge alike setup in eurorack
ketem13
Hi there,
my current setup change since I started my Eurorack system and now its look like this :



Lately I look upon this type of modular aesthetic :
Jean-Philippe Gross

I was wandering what type of module am I missing to get closer to this type of sounds. (of course the systems(modules) is only a part of the whole thing)

Any recommendations ?
Navs
Feedback.
Euro Trash Bazooka
Just chiming in to mention I had the pleasure to share the stage with Jean-Philippe Gross once, he had an insane Serge set-up, and I have never noise sounding so harsh yet so beautiful. He's a master at his craft.
luketeaford
Agree with Navs on feedback (actually teleplexer looks like it would be awesome for that in a eurorack/serge system).

Specifically a lot of serge modules can be "patch programmed" to do other things and often this requires feedback. Some of the clicks and whirs at the beginning of that video sound like what happens when you glitch out a triple waveshaper on itself (a very different sound from doing this with wave multipliers).

Adding a VCFQ and a SSG or equivalents (Sport Modulator) might take you a long way toward serge patching styles.
ketem13
Can you please detail more when you use the term feedback ?

regarding the VCFQ - isn't the Multifilter similar ?
ketem13
Euro Trash Bazooka wrote:
Just chiming in to mention I had the pleasure to share the stage with Jean-Philippe Gross once, he had an insane Serge set-up, and I have never noise sounding so harsh yet so beautiful. He's a master at his craft.


Yes. Jean-Philippe Gross is really a master in what he does. very harsh and dense and yet so gentle and 'aesthetic'.

I need to give a proper listen to your stuff on bandcamp too - Sounds great from first listen.
luketeaford
ketem13 wrote:
Can you please detail more when you use the term feedback ?

regarding the VCFQ - isn't the Multifilter similar ?


Check out the 4U forum here which is where I learned the most about Serge. Also this site: http://www.serge-fans.com/wizardry.htm will help you understand some of the patching that goes on.

For feedback, it's used for tons of stuff. It changes shapes on envelopes. It makes slews cycle (serge modules don't usually have a switch for that). It turns a VCFQ into an oscillator. In particular I like generating interesting noises and rhythms by patching the VCM for feedback.

I don't know about the multifilter, but I don't think it's the same design as the VCFQ. If you can ping it and use it as an oscillator and use it as a slew, it maybe functionally identical.
Navs
ketem13 wrote:
Can you please detail more when you use the term feedback ?


hihi You have all you need in that box, even just the two Toppo modules will go a long way smile

Set the filter to self oscillate, listen to the LP output, feed a mult to the TWF, take the pulse output and send it to the frequency CV input of the filter. Play with the amounts. Then take another output of the filter and send it to the variable CV input of the TWF. Play with the amounts ...

That's the gist of it. The more elements you introduce the crazier it can get but I find two or three modules will usually yield one interesting avenue to explore and then another coupling will give another flavour. Be careful - or at least pay attention to - the levels.

The next aspect to consider is memory: as the feedback is instantaneous, it's sometimes nice to slow things down or refer to past modulations. You can use a slew limiter or S&H etc. Also vary the impulses/signals ...

Does that give you some ideas? twisted
ketem13
Navs wrote:
ketem13 wrote:
Can you please detail more when you use the term feedback ?


hihi You have all you need in that box, even just the two Toppo modules will go a long way smile

Set the filter to self oscillate, listen to the LP output, feed a mult to the TWF, take the pulse output and send it to the frequency CV input of the filter. Play with the amounts. Then take another output of the filter and send it to the variable CV input of the TWF. Play with the amounts ...

That's the gist of it. The more elements you introduce the crazier it can get but I find two or three modules will usually yield one interesting avenue to explore and then another coupling will give another flavour. Be careful - or at least pay attention to - the levels.

The next aspect to consider is memory: as the feedback is instantaneous, it's sometimes nice to slow things down or refer to past modulations. You can use a slew limiter or S&H etc. Also vary the impulses/signals ...

Does that give you some ideas? twisted


oh yes!
when you said "Set the filter to self oscillate, listen to the LP output, feed a mult to the TWF"

what does you mean feed a mult to the twf ?
a copy of the LP output ?

shall I consider a sport modulator or in that stage is more then enough ?
Euro Trash Bazooka
ketem13 wrote:
Euro Trash Bazooka wrote:
Just chiming in to mention I had the pleasure to share the stage with Jean-Philippe Gross once, he had an insane Serge set-up, and I have never noise sounding so harsh yet so beautiful. He's a master at his craft.


Yes. Jean-Philippe Gross is really a master in what he does. very harsh and dense and yet so gentle and 'aesthetic'.

I need to give a proper listen to your stuff on bandcamp too - Sounds great from first listen.


Thank you very much, man. Him and Chris Goudreau (Sickness) are kind of where I want to go with my modular sound-wise.
R.U.Nuts
That Jean Phillip Gross video sounds pretty much like no-input mixing type of stuff. So basically instead of a modular all you'd need is an old beaten mixing desk and maybe some cheap guitar stompboxes. twisted
Euro Trash Bazooka
R.U.Nuts wrote:
That Jean Phillip Gross video sounds pretty much like no-input mixing type of stuff. So basically instead of a modular all you'd need is an old beaten mixing desk and maybe some cheap guitar stompboxes. twisted


I use both modular and no-input mixing. I can assure you it doesn't sound the same at all live, and that it is not what he uses.
D_Robot
ketem13 wrote:
Navs wrote:
ketem13 wrote:
Can you please detail more when you use the term feedback ?


hihi You have all you need in that box, even just the two Toppo modules will go a long way smile

Set the filter to self oscillate, listen to the LP output, feed a mult to the TWF, take the pulse output and send it to the frequency CV input of the filter. Play with the amounts. Then take another output of the filter and send it to the variable CV input of the TWF. Play with the amounts ...

That's the gist of it. The more elements you introduce the crazier it can get but I find two or three modules will usually yield one interesting avenue to explore and then another coupling will give another flavour. Be careful - or at least pay attention to - the levels.

The next aspect to consider is memory: as the feedback is instantaneous, it's sometimes nice to slow things down or refer to past modulations. You can use a slew limiter or S&H etc. Also vary the impulses/signals ...

Does that give you some ideas? twisted


oh yes!
when you said "Set the filter to self oscillate, listen to the LP output, feed a mult to the TWF"

what does you mean feed a mult to the twf ?
a copy of the LP output ?

shall I consider a sport modulator or in that stage is more then enough ?


Not putting words in to Navs mouth cool , yes. Feedback relies on multing outputs, attenuating the signal and feeding back in to the same or other modules further back down the line.

With both the Maths and Multifilter capable of self oscillation another thing you can try is using your VCOs for FM, attenuating the VCO output prior to patching into one or more inputs in maths or the filter, rather than using them simply for audio.

I would hold back on adding more modules, personally speaking, as adding more exponentially increases the time it will take to learn to patch what you already have. However, if this were my set up, and for maximum "Sergeness" (whatever that is) hihi , I would add the sport modulator, cold mac, and a matrix mixer/switch like VCAM or WMD SSM to control routing, feedback, switching, muting and so on across the system.
R.U.Nuts
Euro Trash Bazooka wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:
That Jean Phillip Gross video sounds pretty much like no-input mixing type of stuff. So basically instead of a modular all you'd need is an old beaten mixing desk and maybe some cheap guitar stompboxes. twisted


I use both modular and no-input mixing. I can assure you it doesn't sound the same at all live, and that it is not what he uses.


Yeah, stupid comment by me - I admit. I do some no input mixing with said cheapo mixer and pedal setup for creative breaks from my modular and guitar. But I never tried extensive audio feedback patches on my modular. I guess the fact that you have VCFs instead of EQs and that you can also patch CV into audio and vice versa opens some quite different sonic possibilities...
moremagic
R.U.Nuts wrote:
Euro Trash Bazooka wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:
That Jean Phillip Gross video sounds pretty much like no-input mixing type of stuff. So basically instead of a modular all you'd need is an old beaten mixing desk and maybe some cheap guitar stompboxes. twisted


I use both modular and no-input mixing. I can assure you it doesn't sound the same at all live, and that it is not what he uses.


Yeah, stupid comment by me - I admit. I do some no input mixing with said cheapo mixer and pedal setup for creative breaks from my modular and guitar. But I never tried extensive audio feedback patches on my modular. I guess the fact that you have VCFs instead of EQs and that you can also patch CV into audio and vice versa opens some quite different sonic possibilities...
with a modular feedback doesnt have to be audio control
feeding a modules outputs back to their cv ins is also a source of exciting sounds
natureclubcassettes
i would add a dedicated random module...
parallelepiped
For maximum sergeieness, why not serge eurorack modules?

The function that seems to be missing to me is some fancy routing. Maybe a sequel switch?
D_Robot
parallelepiped wrote:
For maximum sergeieness, why not serge eurorack modules?
...


Presumably because that would be maximum Serge? hihi
ketem13
luketeaford wrote:
Agree with Navs on feedback (actually teleplexer looks like it would be awesome for that in a eurorack/serge system).

Specifically a lot of serge modules can be "patch programmed" to do other things and often this requires feedback. Some of the clicks and whirs at the beginning of that video sound like what happens when you glitch out a triple waveshaper on itself (a very different sound from doing this with wave multipliers).

Adding a VCFQ and a SSG or equivalents (Sport Modulator) might take you a long way toward serge patching styles.


Actually I thought to give up the teleplexer.
Any idea for feedback patching(or other uses) with it?
cloudleft
J-P G is amazing. The Doepfer A-138m is great for feedback stuff, Serge-alike or otherwise. It can be like the brain for a complex feedback system. I can't imagine my setup w/o it. It's pretty affordable, too. In any case Stack cables are a must for a serge like setup.
luketeaford
ketem13 wrote:
Actually I thought to give up the teleplexer.
Any idea for feedback patching(or other uses) with it?


I don't have a Teleplexer (one of the few MN modules I don't own) but are the lower ones inversions of the top ones? I think you'd be best just experimenting with it!
sempervirent
Using the licensed Serge modules from Random*Source would be the quickest route to a "Serge" setup in Eurorack: http://randomsource.net/serge_euro

The sound of the Serge oscillators is pretty special, checking out the R*S NTO in place of the Z3000 might be worthwhile. Different oscillators respond differently to FM and feedback.

Also around 1m 30s you'll see a close-up of the Serge Sequencer/Programmer which is being clocked very quickly (the skipping in the video is probably due to the frame rate of the camera being lower than the sequencer's clock rate, which makes the sequence appear to be random, but I don't think that's actually what's happening). Clocking sequencers at audio rates can be interesting.
Navs
That's an awful lot of Serge in that video eek! His performance with Axel Dörner shows much can be done with much less confused

Good call on the Sequencer/Programmer, sempervirent. Ketem13, you have a Pressure Points so you can use this to preset feedback sweet-spots, as J-P Gross seems to be doing. VCAs will help you control the recursion.
ketem13
Wow!
So I start with the basic setup @Navs suggested and took it from there.
This all 'no input modular' is a new aesthetic of sound I drawn into.
The possibilities of colours and timbers are so wide.

So if to continue this line of thought - would you say a sport modulator or Doepfer 138m mixer should be the next step ?

Thanks
Navs
Great SlayerBadger!

The Sport Modulator can certainly be a little feedback playground by itself. But you could also add a dedicated noise source or an effect like a spring reverb, which is excellent in a feedback patch. Yes, get some mixers, preferably ones which allow you to invert the signal as you will get different results from positive and negative feedback.


edit: ah, the A-138m is a matrix mixer ... I think that could be fun smile
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