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Buchla made case vs other cases(3rd party cases)
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge  
Author Buchla made case vs other cases(3rd party cases)
gummyboy
Hi
I am about to buy Buchla modules(259e, 266e, 292e, 281e) for now, maybe expand it later up to 3X4U moduels, and install them into 19" 12U rack case. And I am thinking between Buchla made case and other 3rd party cases


Can you who has used several cases share experiences ?
Buchla case is relatively very expensive over other cases. THere must be a reason. Is this just name value? Do they have more power?
Can I use other cases?


And I have question. I think because this is so easy thing so no one really asked about this. Sorry if this has been asked. I also asekd in another thread but no luck....
So far, as I understand,
You can daisy chain additional passive boats( https://buchla.com/201e-4u-passive-boat/ )
to the powered boat( https://buchla.com/201e-4-powered-boat/ )
by using this cable( https://buchla.com/buchla-36-inch-connector-cable/ )
Am I correct?


How many additional passive boats can I connect to one powered boat? I am thinking 1 powered for now and 2 passives later.


Big Thanks!!!
mritenburg
I've owned both official Buchla cases and 3rd party cases. It's been my experience that a 200e system is more stable and reliable in a genuine Buchla case. Clones are good in a 3rd party case. I know a few of the 3rd party case builders have made updates to provide better support for 200e, but I don't know the status of those efforts.
gummyboy
mritenburg wrote:
I've owned both official Buchla cases and 3rd party cases. It's been my experience that a 200e system is more stable and reliable in a genuine Buchla case.

Aha...I see....Can I ask when that was? like some years ago or some months ago?
mritenburg
gummyboy wrote:
mritenburg wrote:
I've owned both official Buchla cases and 3rd party cases. It's been my experience that a 200e system is more stable and reliable in a genuine Buchla case.

Aha...I see....Can I ask when that was? like some years ago or some months ago?


Not that long ago. I bought a clone 203-30U case at the end of 2016 going into 2017. I populated it with 200e modules and clones. The 200e modules would lock up in the 203-30U case. Near the end of 2017 or early 2018 I bought a genuine Buchla 201e-18U case and moved all of my 200e modules into that case. I haven't had a single lock up since.
gummyboy
I should go for genuine case..... hmmm..... hmmm..... hmmm.....

Anybody please confirm on this? I am just waiting for the answers for this. I asked Buchla and got no answers...

And I have question. I think because this is so easy thing so no one really asked about this. Sorry if this has been asked. I also asekd in another thread but no luck....
So far, as I understand,
If you have powered boat( https://buchla.com/201e-4-powered-boat/ ),
you can daisy chain additional passive boats( https://buchla.com/201e-4u-passive-boat/ ) to the powered boat
by using this cable( https://buchla.com/buchla-36-inch-connector-cable/ )
Am I correct?

How many additional passive boats can I connect to one powered boat? I am thinking 1 powered for now and 2 passives later.
Cobramatic
Here is my experience:
I've used 200e modules in a 3rd party case and never had any problems.
I've got most of the official modules and a couple of clones (259r etc) mixed in my system and even have a couple of Eurorack modules in there too (Make Noise Echophone and Pittsburgh filter) plus some Eardrill Module modules.

It's a bit of a hybrid system but the Buchla preset manager and midi module function just fine and don't seem to be bothered by the other modules in the system (and running off the same power supply).

I think it is important to be sure your power supply is adequate enough to power everything with ampage to spare.

I stress that is just my experience and I'll note that I do use an official Buchla powered distro-board (that I took from a 4 boat case) that is interconnected to another 2 x 3rd party passive distro-boards.
mutierend
I have an 18U SAModular case and I never had a single problem until I moved the 292e to the second row. Then it started to leak audio really bad. I moved it back to its original spot and the leak went away.

I installed my 296e and modules started to lock up, so I moved the power connector to a different slot on the distro board. The problem went away.

That's my 2 cents.
gummyboy
What do you guys mean "lock up"?

Sorry for my bad English.... very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating
Cobramatic
gummyboy wrote:
What do you guys mean "lock up"?


'Lock up' is when the module stops responding or gets 'stuck' - seems it is usually related to the program switch which can always be used on its own (even without a preset manager) to recall the last state of the module after making changes on the fly for example.

Some configurations of some modules in various cases have been known to cause this.
I've never had that problem but I don't have a 296e or 252e (yet!)
captnapalm
I believe Steffen's (SAModular) new distro boards take care of the lock up and leaking issues, IIUC.
gummyboy
Cobramatic wrote:

'Lock up' is when the module stops responding or gets 'stuck' - seems it is usually related to the program switch which can always be used on its own (even without a preset manager) to recall the last state of the module after making changes on the fly for example.

I see. Thanks

captnapalm wrote:
I believe Steffen's (SAModular) new distro boards take care of the lock up and leaking issues, IIUC.

The problem is that I can't make contact with him....


I almost decide to go for genuine case and the last concern is if I can daisy chain 1 powered boat and 2 passive boats using connection cable. This is how you connect multiple boats right?
Cobramatic
gummyboy wrote:

I almost decide to go for genuine case and the last concern is if I can daisy chain 1 powered boat and 2 passive boats using connection cable. This is how you connect multiple boats right?


Yes, correct.
You could also get a genuine powered Buchla smaller boat and connect passive 3rd party boats in the same way if you want to.

Just be sure that the main power supply has enough amps to power ALL the modules you intend to have in the completed case, or collection of boats.
gummyboy
Thank You applause applause applause

Is it free voltage? I use 220V here
weedywhizz
mritenburg wrote:
gummyboy wrote:
mritenburg wrote:
I've owned both official Buchla cases and 3rd party cases. It's been my experience that a 200e system is more stable and reliable in a genuine Buchla case.

Aha...I see....Can I ask when that was? like some years ago or some months ago?


Not that long ago. I bought a clone 203-30U case at the end of 2016 going into 2017. I populated it with 200e modules and clones. The 200e modules would lock up in the 203-30U case. Near the end of 2017 or early 2018 I bought a genuine Buchla 201e-18U case and moved all of my 200e modules into that case. I haven't had a single lock up since.


Most likely to happen on a 30U configuration, there must be a reason why Buchla isn't selling cases that large.
It is proven and also confirmed by former Buchla employees that systems larger than 18U tend to lock up. When you buy a full 24wls system from Buchla they test the setup and move around modules if needed to prevent the lockups on 200e series modules.
weedywhizz
captnapalm wrote:
I believe Steffen's (SAModular) new distro boards take care of the lock up and leaking issues, IIUC.


They are revised and definitely correct the 292e leak issues along with the interconnection cables placed on the most left connectors. Thats why the boards now have a note where to connect the interconnection cables.

I don't offer the boards with integrated I2C repeater circuits yet because the results vary. On some systems they help and on some systems they mess up.
There is also a larger chance for additional faults when a single repeater on one of the busboards fails to work. It will pull down the whole I2C bus.

So yes - with my boards the leak issue is gone but the boards will not prevent 200e lockups in larger systems - just as Buchla boards.

Just an example: I got a 24U case from a customer to fix the 292e audio leak issue. After some time I fixed this issue with revised busboards and included the repeater circuits to make his system as perfect as possible.
When my customer got the case back he noticed that the 292e audio leak is gone but unfortunately the repeaters messed up the I2C bus. It worked perfectly in his 24U system before I did the "repeater-upgrade".

Another customer with a 24U system by me had both issues - 292e leakage and system lockups. I sent him replacement boards including repeater circuits and both of his issues are gone hmmm.....

dougcl
To the original poster's question, a lockup (or preset lockup) happens when at least one module in the system takes control of the preset bus and will not release it. When a lockup happens, one or more modules in the system freezes. The fix is a restart of the system.

Lockups are caused by noise or reduced noise thresholds on the preset bus.

The chance of lockups increases with increasing system size, and also seems to be affected by power availability. So you have to start worrying beyond 18-wls (generally) and/or when your power source is reaching its limit.

Note that power is limited not only by the brick, but also by the supplies on the powered bus board. You need enough current in both places to power your system. You will have to talk to the case builder to find out the limit of the powered busboard to determine how many passive boats (if any) you can add, then make sure you have a brick that can meet that demand.

Not sure how much current to allocate per space. My 18-wls came with an 8.3A brick, so that works out to 461mA per space. I think this is a generous guideline, but I am not sure how much less you can reliably get away with.

Generally, I recommend stringing together many 18-wls systems on 8.3A bricks using bus isolators instead of building monster systems around single powered busboards, but I am not aware of a single person who has taken this advice. smile

Up until very recently, weedywizz had a longstanding grounding problem on his powered busboards that he has now fixed. It was suspected that the problem increased the chance of lockups. At this point I don't think there is any reason to suspect that his cases will be prone to lockups.

I was really hoping the repeaters on his busboards would be an unambiguous improvement, because it would be great to have a comprehensive solution.

My experience so far is that there is no reason to suspect the repeaters (TCA9517A) will fail and bring down the system. I've had no problems whatsoever, and I use them liberally.

Hopefully this clears a few things up.

Doug
gummyboy
Thank you so much for all the inputs.
I placed an order of 4U powered boat with larger power system with samodular
applause applause applause applause applause
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