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dougcl
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Post by dougcl » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:21 pm

Apparently there is a sound quality issue with the 131 that makes the 132 a better choice. Both modules do the same thing, but the A-132 is like getting two 131's and you can also pick between linear and exp. Of course the 132 might be too small for you. Weird concept for me. I am always going for max density. I would recommend the Cwejman VCA-4MX for max density.

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felix
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Post by felix » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:16 pm

redroomrecordings wrote:as for the 131 vs 132-3 thing, that is where i get very confused. i had put the 131 in there to be the main out for the system...do i not need to do this? im confused because the 132-3 only has cv outs and not audio outs. the whole cv signal vs audio signal thing is something i will be confused about until i get something in my hands to play with.
What lead you to think it's only CV outs? It is because it doesn't have "audio out" on the label?

There really is no difference between CV outs and audio outs. Some modules might be "DC filtered" or "AC coupled" which means that DC voltages (which many CV signals are) will not pass, but for the most part, "CV" and "Audio" outs are one in the same, which is one of the great things about modular systems. "CV" and "Audio" are both just voltages and in almost all cases, can be used interchangeably.

I bought an A130 VCA originally as my "master out" and I've come to rarely use it, mostly because I don't use a "master envelope" in any of my patches with which to open it. The only advantage it has over the A-132-3 is that it has two inputs, so it can function as a two channel mixer.
dress yourself for the public. you now must exit your home and acquire a dental mirror and lubrication!
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redroomrecordings
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Post by redroomrecordings » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:12 pm

felix wrote:
redroomrecordings wrote:as for the 131 vs 132-3 thing, that is where i get very confused. i had put the 131 in there to be the main out for the system...do i not need to do this? im confused because the 132-3 only has cv outs and not audio outs. the whole cv signal vs audio signal thing is something i will be confused about until i get something in my hands to play with.
What lead you to think it's only CV outs? It is because it doesn't have "audio out" on the label?

There really is no difference between CV outs and audio outs. Some modules might be "DC filtered" or "AC coupled" which means that DC voltages (which many CV signals are) will not pass, but for the most part, "CV" and "Audio" outs are one in the same, which is one of the great things about modular systems. "CV" and "Audio" are both just voltages and in almost all cases, can be used interchangeably.

I bought an A130 VCA originally as my "master out" and I've come to rarely use it, mostly because I don't use a "master envelope" in any of my patches with which to open it. The only advantage it has over the A-132-3 is that it has two inputs, so it can function as a two channel mixer.
aces! that's what i thought, but was unsure...this is good to know that you can essentially send out the audio at just about any stage in the patch then without going into a mixer.

i think i may actually rethink all of my utility modules and go with analogue systems stuff instead, except for the midi module, it looks a lot nicer quality and seems to have a little bit more space knob wise for tweaking.

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dkcg
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Post by dkcg » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:21 pm

redroomrecordings wrote: i think i may actually rethink all of my utility modules and go with analogue systems stuff instead, except for the midi module, it looks a lot nicer quality and seems to have a little bit more space knob wise for tweaking.
If you go with Asys as your main modules, you should get an Asys case, the power connectors on ASys modules are different and paired to their cases, or you will need Asys to Doepfer power cable/adapter for every Asys module you get (around $20-25 per cable at Big City). The ASys cases have power rails for both their modules and about 8 or so Doepfer power connectors, but watch how you plug them in, the keying is not always right and you may have to grind off the key to plug some modules in correctly. Personally, I can't stand the power connectors in the ASys modules, kinda tricky to get the cable connected, and very easy to bend a pin w/o even knowing it.

MIDI 2 CV you could always go for a Kenton Pro Solo, which I hear is a little nicer than the Doepfer (I have the Kenton). ASys midi2cv's a bit pricey for me, I'd just get an encore expressionist if I was spending over $500 on a midi2cv converter.

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redroomrecordings
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Post by redroomrecordings » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:05 pm

dkcg wrote:
redroomrecordings wrote: i think i may actually rethink all of my utility modules and go with analogue systems stuff instead, except for the midi module, it looks a lot nicer quality and seems to have a little bit more space knob wise for tweaking.
If you go with Asys as your main modules, you should get an Asys case, the power connectors on ASys modules are different and paired to their cases, or you will need Asys to Doepfer power cable/adapter for every Asys module you get (around $20-25 per cable at Big City). The ASys cases have power rails for both their modules and about 8 or so Doepfer power connectors, but watch how you plug them in, the keying is not always right and you may have to grind off the key to plug some modules in correctly. Personally, I can't stand the power connectors in the ASys modules, kinda tricky to get the cable connected, and very easy to bend a pin w/o even knowing it.

MIDI 2 CV you could always go for a Kenton Pro Solo, which I hear is a little nicer than the Doepfer (I have the Kenton). ASys midi2cv's a bit pricey for me, I'd just get an encore expressionist if I was spending over $500 on a midi2cv converter.
good to know, i'll probably scrap the idea.

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redroomrecordings
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Post by redroomrecordings » Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:55 pm

Well a bunch of stuff sold on ebay and i just got off the phone with analoghaven to put in my order!

some changes had to be made, the dual cyclotron isn't in stock and probably wont be for a while so i just went with a A-147 for now. I also changed the vca to the A-132-3 like everyone suggested. I also added in a A-188-1A.

as a bonus they were out of stock on the 6U racks, but had a used one at %20 off. everything is in stock and they are building it monday!

here i go, down the rabbit hole.

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brandon daniel
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Post by brandon daniel » Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:08 pm

redroomrecordings wrote: as a bonus they were out of stock on the 6U racks, but had a used one at %20 off. everything is in stock and they are building it monday!
LOL, you're totally getting one of my racks (that I just traded into AH)! Enjoy!

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chinard
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Post by chinard » Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:27 pm

Hmm.. no lowpass gate? :eek:

Ah well, you got plenty of room for expansion and the makenoise quad LPG is out soon.
I use the plan b model 13 which is easily their best product, however all plan b modules are in short supply these days so you might be on the waiting list for a while.

LPG is one of those modules you dont realize how much you need until you've had a couple of weeks to putz about with them.
Ive pretty much given up on using VCA's for audio use since i started using LPG's.

One thing i would want to mention about the plan B model 9 is that there is a small amount of audio leakage on them.
Cant remember exactly why but this is normal behavior, you just got to learn to work around it.
They do work great as a pre-filter mixer since you can route the signal to two different destinations. Plus each channel can double as a stand alone attenuator.

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redroomrecordings
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Post by redroomrecordings » Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:30 pm

chinard wrote:Hmm.. no lowpass gate? :eek:

Ah well, you got plenty of room for expansion and the makenoise quad LPG is out soon.
I use the plan b model 13 which is easily their best product, however all plan b modules are in short supply these days so you might be on the waiting list for a while.

LPG is one of those modules you dont realize how much you need until you've had a couple of weeks to putz about with them.
Ive pretty much given up on using VCA's for audio use since i started using LPG's.

One thing i would want to mention about the plan B model 9 is that there is a small amount of audio leakage on them.
Cant remember exactly why but this is normal behavior, you just got to learn to work around it.
They do work great as a pre-filter mixer since you can route the signal to two different destinations. Plus each channel can double as a stand alone attenuator.
yes, i will have about half the rack open for expansion and will probably start adding more modules as soon as next month. i sort of wanted to get the perfect starter within my budget then eventually thought "Fuck it!" im just gonna order these modules, i'll play with them, add, exchange, whatever, can't really go that wrong it's all part of the fun.

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dkcg
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Post by dkcg » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:14 pm

chinard wrote:Hmm.. no lowpass gate? :eek:

Ah well, you got plenty of room for expansion and the makenoise quad LPG is out soon.
I use the plan b model 13 which is easily their best product, however all plan b modules are in short supply these days so you might be on the waiting list for a while.

LPG is one of those modules you dont realize how much you need until you've had a couple of weeks to putz about with them.
Ive pretty much given up on using VCA's for audio use since i started using LPG's.

One thing i would want to mention about the plan B model 9 is that there is a small amount of audio leakage on them.
Cant remember exactly why but this is normal behavior, you just got to learn to work around it.
They do work great as a pre-filter mixer since you can route the signal to two different destinations. Plus each channel can double as a stand alone attenuator.
I think most of the existing line is in stock, just newer things are a little low, but M15s M12, M13s, are usually in stock now.

The 132-3 sounds nice in exp mode. Nice n tight, especially with a exp envelope feeding it. I bet if you put the M12 after the 132-3, it could get close to sounding like a M13, but I LOVE my m13s. I couldn't do without them.

The M9 comes in very handy. I use it as a quad atten more than a mixer really.

A dual LFO could be a decent replacement for the dual cyclotron. I like the Cwejman D-LFO a lot.

Welcome to the machine redroomrecordings. :)

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Audio Resistance
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Post by Audio Resistance » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:37 pm

redroomrecordings wrote: here i go, down the rabbit hole.
Down the rabbit hole and hemorging cash the whole way. :help:

I am 4 moths into it and looking towards a third 6u rack now. I also love the Cwejman D-lfo, and the MX-4s is a in constant use also.

Cheers,
Rob
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My Music

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Post by flippantminister » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:00 pm

dougcl wrote:I don't really get the appeal of the dual cyclotron. It has nothing to patch, it's huge, and what now, no output attenuation? What's ulitmately underneath all of that? A couple of LFO's?
yeah, i never got the livewire thing either... their stuff is beautiful, but so big(which matters to those of us with small cases) and i never got really pumped about any of the demos or videos i saw/heard... before i actually bought any modular gear i would look at pictures and lust for them, but once i got into it i totally lost interest. maybe i am missing out, but...

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Post by wetterberg » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:16 pm

dkcg wrote:A dual LFO could be a decent replacement for the dual cyclotron. I like the Cwejman D-LFO a lot.
I am thinking about getting the MFB dual LFO for just this purpose, too. A lot smaller than the cyclotron, too, and it has some nice normalling going on, a random waveform, etc.

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felix
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Post by felix » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:05 pm

dougcl wrote:I don't really get the appeal of the dual cyclotron. It has nothing to patch, it's huge, and what now, no output attenuation? What's ulitmately underneath all of that? A couple of LFO's?
Ultimately, yes, 3 LFOs. The identical pair are each switchable between triangle and square, with variable waveform symmetry and independent rates. They are "mixed" together via the "axis tilt" which is really just a crossfader between the two LFOs. Intensity is an attenuator for their output (either to the Auxilary output jack, or the modulation amount to the other "blue led" LFO.

The "blue led LFO" is somewhat similar to the other LFOs accept that it's range of speed is considerably faster and has a variable slew limiter and waveform shape between square and saw (chunky/jagged).

The mode switch/dial at the bottom selects the source for the modulation of the rate of the blue led LFO. Manual means it's adjusted manually and no external modulation is applied. "External" means it's modulated by the signal patched into the "External CV" input. "Normal" means the signal of the mixed LFO pair is used to modulate the rate. Again, here, "Intensity" becomes the attenuator and controls the modulation amount.

To each his own, I guess, since this is one of my favorite modules. The only way I think it could be improved would be CV control over the "Axis Tilt".

It's also not just an LFO either. All 3 of the LFOs can go into audio rates. Now that I've got a frequency counter in the TipTop Z3k, I'll check to see how high it does go.
dress yourself for the public. you now must exit your home and acquire a dental mirror and lubrication!
i recommend a hat, or a helmet. if a helmet, ensure that it is both convincing and unbiased. -citizen mori
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/78959
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/225002
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dougcl
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Post by dougcl » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:12 pm

Thanks for the additional information, felix.

Doug

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felix
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Post by felix » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:29 pm

you're very welcome!
dress yourself for the public. you now must exit your home and acquire a dental mirror and lubrication!
i recommend a hat, or a helmet. if a helmet, ensure that it is both convincing and unbiased. -citizen mori
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/78959
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/225002
https://jimdrones.bandcamp.com

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