sound of shadows

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DrOctave
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sound of shadows

Post by DrOctave » Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:57 pm

ok my rate knob seems backwards to me. when full ccw it seems to have the most delay so to speak and when turned full cw it seems to have none. is this the way it is to be? and this insert knob the manual says keep it full cw to utalize this module but when i do it seems to let more noise happen. anyone can clarify this?
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Klopfgeist
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Post by Klopfgeist » Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:58 pm

That is the way it should be.

DrOctave
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Post by DrOctave » Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:01 am

so the knob is fine? it starts out so grungy at full ccw made me think it was backwards. i guess i have to start it backwards lol wtf.
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Klopfgeist
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Post by Klopfgeist » Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:39 am

Yeah the knob should be satan-evil-hell fully ccw and super-short fully cw. At the Rate input a higher CV should make it go slower.

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felix
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Post by felix » Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:25 am

Think of "rate" like time. The "faster" the time (higher the Rate) the shorter the delay.

And yeah, it gets nice and grungy on the low end of the range.

Feedback is also really sensitive. On mine, any further clockwise than 11 and it oscillates. IIRC, the manual has a good "starting point" set of settings.
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flight
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Post by flight » Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:52 pm

felix wrote:Think of "rate" like time. The "faster" the time (higher the Rate) the shorter the delay.
Yeah, this is one of those cases of using the wrong term. I called "Rate" to indicate that you are changing the clock rate, said clock controls how fast the digital samples are fed to the output, so faster clock = shorter delay time. So it is labeled correctly, but I don't know of anyone other than myself that will look at that knob and think "clock rate". Everybody else thinks "delay length".
<jargon>
I think it's engineer mentality vs. non-engineer. Technically, rate is a ratio (cycles per second, miles per hour), and can't easily be applied in the sense of "delay rate", as I'm not sure what to use for "something per something". Whereas "time" or "length" is discrete, e.g.: a delay length of 20mS.
</jargon>
And yeah, it gets nice and grungy on the low end of the range.

Feedback is also really sensitive. On mine, any further clockwise than 11 and it oscillates. IIRC, the manual has a good "starting point" set of settings.
I'm not to stoked about the sensitivity of the feedback knob myself. The thought was to allow greater variance when using bipolar CV signals, as that would offset the sensitivity of the pot.
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Animal
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Post by Animal » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:11 am

I'm a fan. My SoS sounds like a rattlesnake sometimes... Or one of those cool sounds from He-Man and the Masters of the Universe. Like when Skeletor banished He-Man to an alien land to wander around for all eternity, not knowing who he was or where he came from. SoS brings me joy and adds a great deal to my sound. It is the only digital delay I have ever chosen to use over my tape delay. :loves:

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Animal
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Post by Animal » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:15 am

.... And there is nothing like cranking that feedback and watching people squirm when a gig isn't going quite as we would like it too. :tu:

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MrBiggs
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Post by MrBiggs » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:18 am

Tacking on to an old thread here because the title is appropriate and it covers a little bit of what I'm wondering about.

The first week I had the SoS, months ago, I got a lot out of it. But it's not found much use since I ate that candy. As mentioned above, the feedback knob scares my children and cats 20% into a turn, and the constant noise/hiss that I get out of it is hard to hide in a track. Just plugging an output to the Mix out gives a lot of that noise. With nothing going into the SoS, the hiss rises as the feedback knob is turned CW. I've found that I can't send anything remotely quiet into it. If whatever I'm inputting is loud I can usually deal with the noise.

Anyways, I find myself usually going back to my delay pedals. Any tips?
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nrdvrgr
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Post by nrdvrgr » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:20 am

Grounding issues or similar?
Mine is a bit noisy too, but nothing like you describe.
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MrBiggs
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Post by MrBiggs » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:25 am

I dunno if its's grounding. After reading a lot about the Doepfer delay's clock noise, which I really have no idea what clock noise is, I just figured that's what it is. I'll maybe have to record some A/B. Edit: Maybe it's subjective and what is totally out of whack to me is just OCD and no big deal to others...

I could live with it but I find that between the noise and mainly the limited feedback I just get annoyed. I think of stuff I want to do with it but I have to be so damn careful with it.
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flight
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Post by flight » Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:52 pm

Thanks for your post! These help me to find out issues that I might otherwise miss.

Noise:
There is some substantial noise inherent in most delays due to the nature of their operation, but I've been told that the SoS is among the quieter of them. However, I have noticed that it has a lot of noise when the Rate is fully clockwise. Backing it off a bit eliminates this. I''m trying to find the cause here, but no luck yet.
Aside from the above, the noise and distortion is inversely proportional to the Rate setting - lower Rate = higher noise.

Don't forget that all f(h) products carry a lifetime workmanship guarantee. If you feel your item is misbehaving, let me know! I don't like having faulty products floating around.

Feedback Sensitivity:
I agree, the Feedback on earlier units was way too sensitive - too much of the range is wasted. I rarely hear anything about this for some reason though.
There is a simple fix for this (replacing the feedback pot), and I'd be happy to do the upgrade for anybody that has the issue. With the upgrade, the Feedback becomes self-propagating around 2:00 (I don't have one handy to verify this, it may be further CW).

To have your SoS upgraded:
This is a free upgrade, I just ask that you cover the cost of shipping your unit to me. I can't guarantee instant turnaround, but I will do my best to get it back to you as quickly as possible.
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MrBiggs
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Post by MrBiggs » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:01 pm

Hey Flight, thanks for the (as usual) great support.

I'll spend some time thinking about and writing down my issues with the noise. I've not thought about it in terms of which parameter leads to more or less, and I also want to make sure it's not a matter of my feeding a signal that's too low in volume, and therefore cranking up the sound and resulting noise in my output.

As for the pot, do you mind posting what the new value is that you recommend using? I'll pull the SoS out of its case tonight and see how difficult that knob might be to replace with my own soldering iron. If it looks to be any problem at all, I'll likely send it over to you.

Awsum and thanks.
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flight
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Post by flight » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:30 pm

MrBiggs wrote:Hey Flight, thanks for the (as usual) great support.
You are quite welcome! Hell, it's my duty to back what I sell.
I'll spend some time thinking about and writing down my issues with the noise. I've not thought about it in terms of which parameter leads to more or less, and I also want to make sure it's not a matter of my feeding a signal that's too low in volume, and therefore cranking up the sound and resulting noise in my output.
:eek: Damn, that is just awesome, thank you. That will help a lot. Documentation is a good thing!
As for the pot, do you mind posting what the new value is that you recommend using? I'll pull the SoS out of its case tonight and see how difficult that knob might be to replace with my own soldering iron. If it looks to be any problem at all, I'll likely send it over to you.

Awsum and thanks.
I changed the taper to logarithmic, that's all. The new pot is A100k. However, I must say that replacing the pot yourself will void the warranty, as there are a couple of issues here :

1) The delay chip is extremely static-sensitive and easy to destroy through mishandling.
2) The control panel PCB is PTH (plated through-hole), so the pots are difficult to remove without damaging the PCB.
3) You must remove the front panel, which involves removing the knobs and unscrewing the panel nuts of the jacks as well as the potentiometers, and then re-tightening them afterward. Aside from panel damage, over-tightening of the jack nuts can break the ground connection (this is an issue with nearly every phone jack in existence, due to their general construction).
4) The pots are not commercially available. While they are similar to the vertical 16mm Aloha pots available from Small Bear, the ones on the SoS are a bit different - the 90° bend in the legs is 13mm from the pot axis, not 16mm as with the Alphas.
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MrBiggs
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Post by MrBiggs » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:35 pm

flight wrote: :eek: Damn, that is just awesome, thank you. That will help a lot. Documentation is a good thing!
Well don't thank me yet. Let's see if I actually dig the hour out of my week or weekend. I've been building that Choices for seven months, you know. I'm not prompt.

flight wrote: I changed the taper to logarithmic, that's all. The new pot is A100k. However, I must say that replacing the pot yourself will void the warranty, as there are a couple of issues here :

(lots of stuff)

:eek:
Nevermind! It shall be shipped. I'll run these tests I mention above and then will get in touch with you.
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