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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Stereo Shenanigans
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion  
Author Stereo Shenanigans
Vullan
So I've been thinking about getting a stereo mixer or two so I could have a kick and snare "orbit" the listener, like this:
k.....s
.k...s
...ks
...sk
.s...k
s......k
.s...k
...sk
...ks
.k...s
k.....s

Or maybe put a decaying LFO on some signals- general stereo shenanigans.
But I want to know what you've all figured out- what are some of your fun stereo tricks to play with? (And CV stereo modules, if you have opinions on those!)
sduck
Sure. There are several decent stereo cv pannable mixers out there. I've had a yusynth one for my 5U for a long time. It's fun to drive the pan inputs with a quadrature lfo to get several things panning around each other. For the euro i have a MIIIIX by ProModular that does the same thing.
Parnelli
I have wanted a panning mixer for a while now, but they are mighty expensive, so I have found ways around it.

When I got started I would use a Pittsburgh dual VCA for this, running one channel with a slow LFO and invert that signal to run the other channel. Sometimes I'll run each channel with a different LFO to mix it up.

Output of VCA 1 to Left output, 2 to right output, pretty simple. Then I got a Planar 2 joystick and that opened up a number of new options for me with the ability to pan a signal 4 different places.

I recently added a Vector Space to go with the joystick and run it with a couple of different LFOs going as CV through the joystick which allows me to offset all of the CV outputs, and the Vector Space gives me multiple outputs that slew between one another. I generally run those signals through a VCA and send those outputs to one of my stereo sends, I use two Intellijel Mixups sending two stereo signals to a Pittsburgh Outs and an Intellijel In/Out to my mixer.

I can get another stereo channel through my MN Rosie, but I generally only send a couple things spinning in a stereo field or I get dizzy... Dead Banana

The real funny thing is that I purchased all those things over the last couple of years and their cost would about add up to a stereo mixer... hmmm.....
unrecordings
+1 on the Yusynth stereo mixer - it's very good (but only 5U)

If you're wanting to 'orbit' rather than 'ping pong' you need to consider the LFO waveform controlling the panning - sine is probably better than triangle. You also might want to add a touch of EQ to the sounds as they orbit to give a more realistic sense of 'behind' and 'in front' - a VCF modulated in sync with the LFO should manage this. And as sduck says - a quadrature LFO and stereo is a fun pairing

Also for stereo in general, check out the Worng LRMSMSLR - Mid/Side processing is a whole new ball game (but you need a true stereo source for mid/side to work - not mono or dual mono)

https://www.worngelectronics.com
jkjelec
I really enjoy the sound (feel?) of audio frequency panning, for example panning one sound in a mix at a frequency that is a subharmonic of that tone/sound. (for example a sound with a 100 Hz fundamental being panned by a sync'ed subharmonic with a frequency of 50 Hz.
Vullan
unrecordings wrote:
+1 on the Yusynth stereo mixer - it's very good (but only 5U)

If you're wanting to 'orbit' rather than 'ping pong' you need to consider the LFO waveform controlling the panning - sine is probably better than triangle. You also might want to add a touch of EQ to the sounds as they orbit to give a more realistic sense of 'behind' and 'in front' - a VCF modulated in sync with the LFO should manage this. And as sduck says - a quadrature LFO and stereo is a fun pairing


Yeah, actually- how on earth does that "in front" or "behind" feeling come about? putting aside 5.1 speaker setups, with just stereo, how does some sound feel "in front" and some "behind" you?
Joe.
There's tricks with reverb to make the sound forward, and phase witchcraft to make the sound behind.
unrecordings
Just trying to remember my psychoacoustics days. Think about how your head works, where your ears point (to fixed positions rather than moveable like a cat). All these effects can be mimicked, and yes as Joe points out - phase is another one. We use phase for front/side direction, but if memory serves (someone please correct me) sounds in front will appear brighter because they're captured directly by the ear & sounds behind are duller because they need to travel across/through your ear lobe/skull first

This is making me think about cat hearing. Do they get phase ? they must do
JakoGreyshire
unrecordings wrote:

Also for stereo in general, check out the Worng LRMSMSLR - Mid/Side processing is a whole new ball game (but you need a true stereo source for mid/side to work - not mono or dual mono)

https://www.worngelectronics.com


I'm glad this topic just sprang up.... I did a search for "True Stereo" and was looking at all these older posts which had good info in them, but not quite current with what modules are available....

I just built a Worng LRMSMSLR and gave it a test run... I quickly realized that maybe some of my "stereo" modules might not be true stereo...

So, after what I thought was troubleshooting my Worng Mid-side module, I got something going with the Disting doing a Ping Pong Pan delay that was fed into the LRMSMSLR...

I'm trying to wrap my head around how to tell if a module is actually doing true stereo that will be properly decoded by the LRMSMSLR...

Anyone got some resources on this topic? Can true stereo be two mono signals where one signal is phase inverted?

Is the intellijel Mixup true stereo?

What about the Morphagene, true stereo?

Are some of the Disting's Algos true stereo?

Mutable Clouds, true stereo?


Am I off base here asking these questions...?

seriously, i just don't get it hmmm..... seriously, i just don't get it hmmm..... seriously, i just don't get it hmmm..... help

EDIT: At first I was going to start a posting about this if I didn't find a good and current thread....

Also I planned on going over to the LRMSMSLR thread and asking about modules that are true stereo...

I have a feeling that some modules are cheating the stereo field... I could be wrong about that though.... I don't know...
starthief
unrecordings wrote:
Also for stereo in general, check out the Worng LRMSMSLR - Mid/Side processing is a whole new ball game (but you need a true stereo source for mid/side to work - not mono or dual mono)


Nah, I find that having somewhat different signals for mid and side really gives a great sense of depth and width -- for instance, run the same voice through a VCA and an LPG, or through bandpass and lowpass filters, or wet reverb vs. dry. It may take some tweaking of the individual levels to get it to feel balanced but it doesn't have to be "true stereo" to come out fantastic.

I listen in headphones and find panning to be annoying sometimes if things feel too off-center, especially in bass ranges.
unrecordings
starthief wrote:
unrecordings wrote:
Also for stereo in general, check out the Worng LRMSMSLR - Mid/Side processing is a whole new ball game (but you need a true stereo source for mid/side to work - not mono or dual mono)


Nah, I find that having somewhat different signals for mid and side really gives a great sense of depth and width -- for instance, run the same voice through a VCA and an LPG, or through bandpass and lowpass filters, or wet reverb vs. dry. It may take some tweaking of the individual levels to get it to feel balanced but it doesn't have to be "true stereo" to come out fantastic.

I listen in headphones and find panning to be annoying sometimes if things feel too off-center, especially in bass ranges.


Ah yes - I was concentrating on 'stereo' and forgot to add that two similar signals (or two completely different signals) will bring M/S to life - the gist of my original point being - simply feeding the same signal to both inputs won't work

As for 180˚ phase inversion - not sure...
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