MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Moving Win10 from HDD to SSD???
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Software  
Author Moving Win10 from HDD to SSD???
Rex Coil 7
I'm interested in buying a new HDD that has Win10 Pro installed on it already. The seller provides a "key" to register Win10 to the buyer. The HDD is new, and it's sold with Win10 Pro already installed.

My computer has the Z370 chipset, Intel i7-8700, 16GB DDR4, and a 250GB M.2 NAND NVMe SSD. I want to move (install? migrate?) the Win10 Pro installation on the new HDD to the M.2 SSD since the SSD is intended to be the OS/boot drive.

How do I go about getting that done? The seller suggested these two articles ...

LINK =
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2098426/move-from-a-hard-drive-to-an-s sd.html

LINK = https://www.pcmag.com/feature/363387/how-to-clone-a-hard-drive

Any help or suggestions?

(BTW, the bundle is a pretty decent deal ... 1TB Toshiba P300 HDD plus Win10 Pro for $90.00 shipped. I already have one of those HDDs (the exact same one) so this would make a total of 2TB mass storage, and also put me that much closer to my 4-HDD goal (total 4TB). Those Toshiba 1TB P300s typically sell for about $45.00 bucks with nothing on them. Win10Pro is something like $180.00 or so by itself. So this bundle the seller is offering me is attractive.)

cool
andybizarre
Don`t mistake a Windows key with an already installed Windows. For security reasons, I sure as hell would not boot some guys`s Windows HDD in my home network. And since it`s installed with a complete different set of hardware, it most likely won`t boot anyway. w00t

If you find a HDD plus Windows license a good deal, go for it. But please format the drive first in a safe environment, e.g. a Linux boot stick like Clonezilla.
Rex Coil 7
andybizarre wrote:
Don`t mistake a Windows key with an already installed Windows. For security reasons, I sure as hell would not boot some guys`s Windows HDD in my home network. And since it`s installed with a complete different set of hardware, it most likely won`t boot anyway. w00t

If you find a HDD plus Windows license a good deal, go for it. But please format the drive first in a safe environment, e.g. a Linux boot stick like Clonezilla.
The seller says it's never been registered, it comes with the Win10Pro license key.

What I don't know is if Win has been actually installed or if it's just got a copy of the Win10 Pro files on it (as if a Win10 installation disk has been copied to the HDD). Another thing I don't know is if it was ~installed~ was it done as 32 bit or 64 bit (I'm going 64 bit on everything in this new system).

I've asked the seller about all of those issues, he's going to write me back this evening with answers, I presume he's at work right now.

This computer of mine is for music production only. It won't even be physically connected to the internet.

Seller has been an eBay member since 2009, nearly 300 transactions, 100% positive feedback rating. Here's how he's described this whole thing:

(quoting)

"Hello Rex, this 1TB Toshiba HDD has Windows 10 PRO already installed. I will include the license key when it’s shipped. I assume you know your stuff, but the code will allow you to activate windows 10 PRO. If you have any other questions, please ask away!"

(this is another message from him after I asked a few more questions):

"Let me explain the story to this HDD. My brother needed a computer so me being the nerd younger brother, I built him one, myself. I had a Win10 USB that malfunctioned, so I just bought a HDD with Win10 already on it (The HDD for sale). After it was shipped, I found another HDD in an old computer of mine, which had Win8, so gave him that rather than wait for this 1TB HDD to arrive. So to sum this up, I have never used this HDD, and have the Win10 PRO Activation Key.
One last thing I feel I should add, Win10 doesn’t include Microsoft Word, Excell, Powerpoint etc. anymore, Microsoft makes you pay monthly/annually for these softwares now.
If you are still interested in the purchase, I would be more than willing to refund you if it turns out this isn’t what you need."

(end quotes)

He's asking $90.00 shipped for the Toshiba 1TB HDD with Win10 Pro "installed". I just don't know what to think about this.

By comparison, I can get a brand new/sealed package (with nothing loaded on it) Toshiba P300 1TB HDD for $40.00 shipped. Win10 Pro is going for about $190.00 (new on a CD) depending on where you look.

I was all excited about this HDD w/Win10 Pro ~deal~ yesterday ... after doing some research last night/today on all of this business I'm not as enthused today. I'm thinking about just either holding off or jumping on the brand new HDD $40.00 deal.

It's a crap shoot ... will HDD prices go up later, so best to jump on the $40 Toshiba deal now? ... or will they go down later and best to just wait a month or so?

d'oh!

EDIT: Having major second thoughts on the HDD w/Win10 Pro deal. Instead I'll just go with buying a brand new copy of Win10 Home Edition from somewhere like Sweetwater etc. when I'm ready for the OS. I'll add more HDDs later as well. As it stands I already have one Toshiba 1TB (model P300) plus the 250GB M.2 NVMe NAND SSD. Besides it's going to be a good month or more before I even get this computer built and assembled, so I'm not even ready for the OS yet. And who knows, maybe there will be a Win10.1 or something if I just be patient and wait to buy it until the computer is actually ready to have the OS installed.

thumbs up
andybizarre
Thinking about it, there are only 2 reasons I would still buy spinning platter-type hard disks.

1. NAS use
2. if you need a guaranteed, constant write rate for hours of multitrack HD recording. SSD controllers, conflicting cache and write policies could mess things up. Like 32 channels of 24/96 for 4 hours, not your average 8-track 24/44.1 recording of a 30 minute jam..

Other than that, no thanks. I would save the money or invest in the next bigger SSD.
kcd06
Ive not tried it, but win10 might get really snotty about not being regularly connected to the internet so it can call home to hell and get permission to update/screw up your system. I do know that most pay-to-use software will now require a continuous internet connection else it will shut down. Some will get pissy about not being able to phone home even if you aren't using it.

Your reply from the seller is plausible, but raises my hackles. unless you really need a copy of win10, I wouldnt do this, and personally would not install this HDD until it has been completely scrubbed after making sure every sector had been written to. Maybe I'm being excessively paranoid.



Side note, there is no rational reason to pay for microsoft Office. Open Office is 100% cross compatible with the microsoft file system and FULLY backwards compatible with older versions of MS Office and other packages, is more compact, lives on you computer not some mystery place in the cloud, much easier to use, and will edit PDF's natively without any need for 3rd party mystery software or similar such that require you to send them any files you want to convert. Oh, and Open Office has been freeware/community supported for ~20 years now.
sduck
Absolutely not. Do not buy this. Dollars to donuts it's a scam, the key won't work, there's malware installed, etc. It's just asking for trouble.
Rex Coil 7
kcd06 wrote:
Ive not tried it, but win10 might get really snotty about not being regularly connected to the internet so it can call home to hell and get permission to update/screw up your system.
The non-connected to the web Win10 DAW system thing is actually done by some on DAW computers, which is all this new one I'm building is. It's not an internet toy ... that task is assigned to this one I'm typing on right now. I may have to connect the new DAW system now and then (but perhaps not, there are some that don't connect Win10 DAW systems at all after they've done the initial installation).

Win7 and/or Win8 won't work since some of the new hardware tech requires Win10. I posted an entire thread about asking about it ... many replies.

LINK = https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=210790&highlight=

kcd06 wrote:
.. unless you really need a copy of win10.
Well, yea .... after all, I do need an OS for this new DAW system.

kcd06 wrote:
I wouldnt do this...
I won't, I've decided against it.

sduck wrote:
Absolutely not. Do not buy this. Dollars to donuts it's a scam, the key won't work, there's malware installed, etc. It's just asking for trouble.
Thanks Steve ... I've decided not to go through with it. After thinking about it overnight, my better senses took control of my wide eyed stare at the shiney new thing and got through to me, scolding me ....

Nnno. NO! .. BAD dumass! BAD DUMASS!! The MSN Smack!

Thanks for the help fellas. I'm not always the sharpest knife in the drawer. Your help is always appreciated.

nodnod
UltraViolet
andybizarre wrote:
Thinking about it, there are only 2 reasons I would still buy spinning platter-type hard disks.

1. NAS use
2. if you need a guaranteed, constant write rate for hours of multitrack HD recording. SSD controllers, conflicting cache and write policies could mess things up. Like 32 channels of 24/96 for 4 hours, not your average 8-track 24/44.1 recording of a 30 minute jam..

Other than that, no thanks. I would save the money or invest in the next bigger SSD.


There is a very good reason to buy traditional hard drives. SSDs wear out! If you are doing a lot of writing and rewriting (like recording music tracks) a traditional hard drive is a better choice. This video explains the issue well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XZNr7mS0iw
Rex Coil 7
UltraViolet wrote:
andybizarre wrote:
Thinking about it, there are only 2 reasons I would still buy spinning platter-type hard disks.

1. NAS use
2. if you need a guaranteed, constant write rate for hours of multitrack HD recording. SSD controllers, conflicting cache and write policies could mess things up. Like 32 channels of 24/96 for 4 hours, not your average 8-track 24/44.1 recording of a 30 minute jam..

Other than that, no thanks. I would save the money or invest in the next bigger SSD.


There is a very good reason to buy traditional hard drives. SSDs wear out! If you are doing a lot of writing and rewriting (like recording music tracks) a traditional hard drive is a better choice. This video explains the issue well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XZNr7mS0iw
As for myself, I've seen that video before (I believe I've even posted it in one of my computer related threads .. perhaps the "Modular Computer" project thread, linked in my signature ... or it may have been in the "RAID" thread I started). Here's that same video that is linked in Member *UltraViolet's post above ...



In any case, I agree with the notion that hard drives can be a better choice for archiving over the use of SSDs. SSDs have a finite life span, yes. And if a Hard Drive is handled carefully and placed in a safe location when removed from the system they have (pretty much) an indefinite life span, when it comes to data integrity. This is especially true if the hard drive is used almost like one would use an old floppy disk. You add the data to the HDD when it is time for backups or archiving, remove the HDD from the system, and place the HDD in a safe place until it's time for the next backup.

Some folks use a rotating system of HDDs to reduce mechanical wear/tear on the HDD even that much more.

One of the reasons I prefer the use of a HDD for backups and archiving is that when a Hard Drive begins to have integrity problems (in other words, it's starting to wear out) the user receives little hints that it's getting old/tired. As long as you're keen to the hints, you can replace the ailing Hard Drive before it fails completely. "Hints" such as noisy operation, buzzing, slow reads, and so on.

On the other hand, Sold State Drives ("SSDs") give little, if any, pre-warning that they are beginning to fail (lost sectors, and so on). Then rather suddenly, and most times without any warning at all, they just stop working, catastrophically so. Sure, there are methods of use that need to be adhered to when using Solid State storage tech, which are very much like the same methods of use that apply to Power Supplies in modular synths ... estimate your total need, double that, and that figure provides you with a basic capacity needed. If you estimate you'll require (let's say) 100GB of storage, double that and use a Sold State Drive with at least 200GB (250GB is the available size in that range). As the video portrays, this provides enough space on the SSD to perform "wear leveling" of the storage sectors and reduces the number of read/write cycles on any given sector.

Cost Per Gigbyte is another consideration. The 1TB Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD puts the cost per GB at roughly $0.20 cents. By comparison, the Toshiba P300 1TB HDD costs $0.04 cents per GB.

Keep in mind that I am using the HDDs for mass storage only. For backing up, archiving, storing sample libraries, created content, and any other stuff that I do not require immediate access to or that is some sort of critical programs/applications. I'm using M.2 NAND NVMe SSD storage for the operating system, the DAW program, all of the PDF manuals I need to be accessed while programs are running, various "editors" (for instance the Nord Modular Editor), and any VSTs.

So the M.2 motherboard mounted SSD will store things such as:

** Win10
** Ableton Live 9.7.7, as well as any "packs".
** Nord Modular Editor.
** VSTs.
** All of the PDF manuals.
** Drivers for any hardware attached to the computer (interfaces, and so on).

But all of the samples, created content, and any non-crucial data is to be stored on the HDD array.

I've yet to cook up which HHD storage "rotation" method I'll be adopting (such as one of the RAID types, or perhaps a manually managed disk rotation schedule/method) ... but I will get that worked out in due time. What I do know is that I'll need 4 separate HDDs ... at least, probably more like 6. Not that I'll have 6 HDDs on line at all times, some of those will be safely stored, removed from the computer, and used in the rotation schedule. Keep in mind that for every one GB of SSD storage, I can buy 5 or 6 GB of HDD storage. So buying six 1TB HDDs will cost roughly the same as a single 1TB M.2 PCIe SSD. (6x $40.00 = $240.00 ... which is roughly the cost of a single 1TB SSD that is worth owning). The Toshiba P300 1TB HDD is $40.00 bucks shipped free ... the Samsung EVO 970 M.2 NAND NVMe SSD is $240.00 shipped free.

I will admit that a SATA3 SSD is roughly half the cost of the M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD, (but then again M.2 NAND NVMe PCIe SSDs are easily twenty times faster than SATA3 SSDs). For instance a San Disk SATA3 1TB SSD runs about $0.13 cents per GB ... however that is still THREE TIMES the cost per GB of a 1TB HDD "worth owning". The Toshiba P300 HDD is one of, if not the best consumer grade HDD on the market (making it "worth owning") and may be purchased new for $40.00 bucks shipped. Emphasis on "consumer grade". If we're gonna get into "Enterprise level" stuff then the entire paradigm shifts. However, using an M.2 PCIe SSD connection with a NAND NVMe SSD is far more cost effective than using an "enterprise grade" SATA3 SSD.

There are some very nice storage containers made these days ... here's one example:

LINK = https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORICO-30-Bays-Shockproof-2-5-3-5-HDD-Hard-Dri ve-Protective-Case-Storage-Box/192379845950

I may even elect to create a "mixed-type" of mass storage array that will use both HDD and SSD technologies. In that case, all of the storage types will be SATA3 protocols. It's so easy to design an on-line "storage rack" that uses "hot swap" removable storage trays so that no matter if the drive is HDD or SSD, the drives themselves are mounted in removable trays which require no screws to install or remove the drive from the computer. The same metal "rack" can accept either 3.5" or 2.5" drives, and Hard Disk Drives or Solid State Drives. There are SATA3 connectors at the back of the rack which connect/disconnect the drive units to power and SATA3 information connections any time the tray is either removed or installed. I've ordered one of these as a test piece to get some idea of how I can use such technology....

DRIVE TRAY LINK = https://www.ebay.com/itm/StarTech-com-5-25in-Trayless-Hot-Swap-Mobile- Rack-for-3-5in-Hard-Drive/264113085002?epid=2100856014&hash=item3d7e5d da4a:g:iXoAAOSwBPRcK1C5:rk:6:pf:0

DRIVE "RACK" LINK = https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-25-to-5x-3-5-SATA-SAS-HDD-Cage-Rack-Hard-Dr iver-Tray-Caddy-with-Fan-Space/401559172879?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26a lgo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D55991%26meid%3D80537867c9f747ff95632713 53f60b8d%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D332743720543%26itm% 3D401559172879&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219

I paid roughly $12.00 for the tray, and $14.00 for the metal rack, with free shipping on both items. Keep in mind these are test pieces, so I can get an idea how well all of this will work. There are also some very well built (all metal) 3.5" to 2.5" adapters so whether a 3.5" drive or a 2.5" drive is used, and whether it's HDD or SSD, it can be easily adapted to the sliding tray thing.

In my situation (since I am building my own custom computer case) it's no problem to design the needed hole in the case, as well as how the drive rack will be mounted in the case.

Just one of the many advantages to designing and constructing your own Modular Computer case. thumbs up

I'll be posting entries in the "Modular Computer" project thread, linked in my signature, as these parts arrive and I begin test fitting and so on ... of course there will be many pictures within the project thread entries. That thread is done in the same manner as my Super Mini Modular "photo journal" project thread (which is also linked in my signature).

thumbs up
zygurt
Just so that you're aware, the Windows license is tied to the motherboard. I recently just did a rebuild, and as part of that went from an SSD boot drive to an M.2 NVMe boot drive. I tried using the SSD initially, but Windows didn't activate, so I got a new Education Edition License through my uni and put the ssd with the previous mobo in a different rebuilt computer. There is probably a way to contact Microsoft to get the key reassigned to your machine, but I wouldn't count on it.

I certainly agree with Rex, suggesting OS and application install etc on the SSD with other content on a platter disk.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Software  
Page 1 of 1
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group