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Waveform morph on Alesis Andromeda A6?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Waveform morph on Alesis Andromeda A6?
analogsplitter
Hi all,

I see the new Moog one has adjustable waveforms (rise/fall times and phase reset), and was wondering if any A6 users have conjured up similar types of wave manipulations on the a6 oscillators?

As far as I know, the pulse width is adjustable. You can select saw (neg or pos), tri, sine, but can't adjust them individually (they are either on or off).

Any ideas on how to get wave morphing (west coast style - triangle slope changes and/or other waveform transformation)???

Also, it'd be great to lag the waveform start time of Osc 1 to get phase offset (compared to Osc 2) too.
JediDJ
I doubt that any of those features exist on A6.
Read manual a while ago.

Multimode ?
And midi cc7 mangling for different parts ?
Angroc
The A6 gives you enough building blocks to make sounds that can sound very westcoast'ish. But no, there's wavefolding on it. That would have been *sweet* though!
JediDJ
Lower the levels ???
Like wohmart site suggests.

Anyone actually tried that tricks ?
Do they really make A6 sound more vibey and less distorted?
Angroc
Yeah you gotta be really careful with your levels on it. I thought the A6 was a very aggressive synth when I first got it, but after learning to mind my levels, it showed of its sweeter side for sure.

Still won't do any wavefolding though.
nectarios
Take VCO levels down on the mixer...like 20% if you plan on mixing sub oscs too. Use your ears to get there.

No waveform morphing on the A6 like the One, but it has both lin and exp FM to do west coastish stuff, hard but also soft sync, help there.

It does allow to mix every output of the "oberheim" filter though and it also allows to mix sines and ring mod back into the filtered output, which allows for solid bottom end, regardless of resonance/cut-off settings, another thing the One does not do.
JediDJ
And what will happen to signal to noise ratio ?
The levels of OSCs are low, FILTER parts are low.
We have LOW signal at output and poor SNR.

??

Not that good.
nectarios
The A6 is not a noisy synth, mine is not anyway, so you can just turn it up on the desk and besides even after pulling the A6 mixer levels down, the output is still loud enough.

I've never had an issue with it.
xparis001
JediDJ wrote:
Lower the levels ???
Like wohmart site suggests.

Anyone actually tried that tricks ?
Do they really make A6 sound more vibey and less distorted?


yes, big time. it's a huge difference.
JediDJ
Can anybody do a short mixture of nice vintage sounds on A6 ?
I mean not that arpegiated insults or trancy stuff.
But solid toto africa brass, vangelis cs lead, jarresque oxygene lead.
This type of stuff.

Because as I understood, Wohmart site contains some examples (mp3)
after level correction.
And these examples...... to my ears.... still kinda not there most of the time.

Of course level drop can fix wave folding and clipping.
But that old CEM and SSMs or SVFs sounded characterfull mostly when pushed, except MemoryMoog that had little bit awful gain staging implemented.

And it would be nice if someone could upload a demo in WAV.
24 44 will be enough.
Just 5-10 examples.
analogsplitter
Ok, after a minimal amount of brainstorming on my own, I created some wave morphing options.

Osc 1 set to saw wave (for example), Osc 2 set to triangle, modulate Osc1 Pre Filter mix with Mod Wheel (at 100%), modulate Osc2 Pre Filter mix with Mod Wheel (at negative 100%). Use the mod wheel and watch the waveform on the oscilloscope transform from saw to tri. Hard syncing the oscillators helps keep them lined up.

Any other creative options? Hopefully something that allows the use of both oscillators at the same time? Perhaps mix mode would allow this, but might be a little complex setting it up.

I'm thinking wavefolding (actual folding of the waveform), rather than waveshaping, might be possible too (with sync and octave shifting somehow)?

I'm also curious to see if there is a way to get phase shifting somehow. Can a single oscillator be lagged somehow via the software?
analogsplitter
... of course...

Wavefolding:
Set both Oscillators to the same waveform, but one Osc up an octave or more, and crossfade with the mod wheel (as indicated prior). Using the different sync options (or leave it off) gives different tonal qualities to the wavefolding.

Works better than running the a6 into a wave folder module, which doesn't really work at all really (the sound fizzes out).
Sinamsis
JediDJ wrote:
And what will happen to signal to noise ratio ?
The levels of OSCs are low, FILTER parts are low.
We have LOW signal at output and poor SNR.

??

Not that good.


What nectarios said... no issues with noise... outputs are hot, the internal gain staging can get intense. Even with the oscillators low, I've never had to compensate to bring the signal back up, and I've never had issues with noise.
analogsplitter
A bit more digging, and I found that the square wave level is editable as well, allowing a square wave to added to the existing wave. For example, with a Pos Saw selected on Osc 1, set up mod wheel to fade in the PW level of the same Osc. This will transform the saw into a pulse wave. Selecting a different initial waveform (or set of waveforms, tri+saw for example) leads to interesting results.
peripatitis
There was one sold locally on probably an all-time ridiculously low but it was on a week I had decided there is no chance i'll let my gas overcome me!
I wonder how it fares now with this new analogue era..
Obviously spec wise it is still up there.
nectarios
peripatitis wrote:
There was one sold locally on probably an all-time ridiculously low but it was on a week I had decided there is no chance i'll let my gas overcome me!
I wonder how it fares now with this new analogue era..
Obviously spec wise it is still up there.


There was one for 1800€.
Then two more popped up, one for 750€ and another for 820€.

Pretty sure te 750€ one was a bait to get the price down on the 1800€ A6.

Not sure one the 820€ one though.

I think 1800-2000(max) is a fair price for a mint A6.

I got mine for very cheap, since I traded a DIY 5U rig that cost me 900€.
peripatitis
nectarios wrote:
peripatitis wrote:
There was one sold locally on probably an all-time ridiculously low but it was on a week I had decided there is no chance i'll let my gas overcome me!
I wonder how it fares now with this new analogue era..
Obviously spec wise it is still up there.


There was one for 1800€.
Then two more popped up, one for 750€ and another for 820€.

Pretty sure te 750€ one was a bait to get the price down on the 1800€ A6.

Not sure one the 820€ one though.

I think 1800-2000(max) is a fair price for a mint A6.

I got mine for very cheap, since I traded a DIY 5U rig that cost me 900€.


Oh I didn't see the 1800 one, only the other two!
I never thought these could be bait to lower the price, wow!
Sinamsis
If one really was available for 820 euros that's crazy. I bought mine for just under $3000 US with a flight case and shipping etc a year or so ago. I've seen them on the forum here and on GS for maybe $2600 the lowest. If you look at the sale history on Reverb for the past year there are a few outliers, both on the high and low end. One or two went for low mid 2000s around October or so when the One was announced (haha). I think $3000 is the very upper limit I'd pay, and now that there is a modern alternative spec wise, probably less. I think the A6 is a beast of a synth. It sounds great, and I think side by side with the One, I might prefer the raw sound of the A6. That said the ease of programming on the One is amazing. I really find the A6 cumbersome when programming complex patches. The One is a breeze. Also in terms of stability the One wins for the most part. I've commented on both fairly extensively in other threads both here and on GS, as I have both, but if you have any specific questions feel free to PM me. I think both have their strengths and weaknesses. I think the one big thing the One has going for it is that it's still in production and actively supported; the A6 is a bit of a crap shoot. That said, if you find one that's working, chances are it will continue to work. And if you love it and can't live without it, you can probably buy a functioning one and a parts one for less than the 8 voice One.


Heres a video of my first few patches with the A6:





And then one with the One:


JediDJ
Glad that you prefer the basic tone of A6 )
I had the same thoughts about it even listening from YT.
Great demos btw wink
nectarios
Only heard One on YouTube an Soundcloud but I also prefer the A6 tone.

But then again, most people don't get such deep synths for the basic tone. But yeah, easier to handle polysynth GAS with the A6...but I am eyeing a JX-8P with the programmer these days...
Sinamsis
nectarios wrote:
Only heard One on YouTube an Soundcloud but I also prefer the A6 tone.

But then again, most people don't get such deep synths for the basic tone. But yeah, easier to handle polysynth GAS with the A6...but I am eyeing a JX-8P with the programmer these days...


This brings up a very good point. So I guess core sound might not matter, but if the intended purpose is an all in one synth, then core sound matters. I had intended the One to be my main analog poly, for example. Ok, so if core sound then doesn't matter, then why bother with the expense of a VCO based poly synth? This is something I debate, and I'm not sure where i stand on it. Ha, it may sound like I'm dissatisfied with the One, which I am not. But I certainly am debating keeping the A6, which I thought I would probably sell.
nectarios
Sinamsis wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Only heard One on YouTube an Soundcloud but I also prefer the A6 tone.

But then again, most people don't get such deep synths for the basic tone. But yeah, easier to handle polysynth GAS with the A6...but I am eyeing a JX-8P with the programmer these days...


This brings up a very good point. So I guess core sound might not matter, but if the intended purpose is an all in one synth, then core sound matters. I had intended the One to be my main analog poly, for example. Ok, so if core sound then doesn't matter, then why bother with the expense of a VCO based poly synth? This is something I debate, and I'm not sure where i stand on it. Ha, it may sound like I'm dissatisfied with the One, which I am not. But I certainly am debating keeping the A6, which I thought I would probably sell.


Oh I am not saying raw tone does not matter, by all means it does matter to me a great deal too, as the A6 is my only analog poly and I want it to cover the raw analogue stuff too... To be honest I bought it mostly cause I wanted OB-XA-like and Memorymoog-like, patches an then I learne to appreciate the A6 for what it is and not the convincing emulations of vintage synths.

But with all the stuff its capable of, it goes into complex territory, very quickly, where of course, raw sound matters, but its mostly about the stuff that goes on in the patch, modulation/expression wise.

If raw sound did not matter to me, I would just use the Virus/soft synths all the time.
Sinamsis
nectarios wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Only heard One on YouTube an Soundcloud but I also prefer the A6 tone.

But then again, most people don't get such deep synths for the basic tone. But yeah, easier to handle polysynth GAS with the A6...but I am eyeing a JX-8P with the programmer these days...


This brings up a very good point. So I guess core sound might not matter, but if the intended purpose is an all in one synth, then core sound matters. I had intended the One to be my main analog poly, for example. Ok, so if core sound then doesn't matter, then why bother with the expense of a VCO based poly synth? This is something I debate, and I'm not sure where i stand on it. Ha, it may sound like I'm dissatisfied with the One, which I am not. But I certainly am debating keeping the A6, which I thought I would probably sell.


Oh I am not saying raw tone does not matter, by all means it does matter to me a great deal too, as the A6 is my only analog poly and I want it to cover the raw analogue stuff too... To be honest I bought it mostly cause I wanted OB-XA-like and Memorymoog-like, patches an then I learne to appreciate the A6 for what it is and not the convincing emulations of vintage synths.

But with all the stuff its capable of, it goes into complex territory, very quickly, where of course, raw sound matters, but its mostly about the stuff that goes on in the patch, modulation/expression wise.

If raw sound did not matter to me, I would just use the Virus/soft synths all the time.



Ha yeah, I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm more musing/wondering myself. I actually DO question the role of a complex analog poly after having owned a couple. When you get into patches involving complex modulation, I think the original sound source matters less. Basically I'm questioning the value of something like the One compared to a Virus or the new Waldorf Kyra, etc. When it gets into heavily modulated patches I'm not sure you'l hear the difference. For other stuff, I think so. FM is another area I thing you may hear the difference. Unfortunately I really don't think I care for the sound of FM on the One, and is a big reason I'm considering keeping the A6. I also feel like it does get close the OB sound, or at least close enough to me.

Regarding the JX-8P, I owned an MKS-70 for a while. Great sounding synth. The PG 800 is incredibly cheap feeling. If you could get the synth for cheap and buy a third party controller, I think you'd be better off. Also, I think someone made an updated OS for the MKS-70 with some added features, don't recall all the specs; there's a thread on GS. I suspect it's not available for the JX-8P but I'd look at it. It might sway you towards an MKS-70. Me, I'm eventually going to snag an MKS-80. Haha.
nectarios
I don't mind cheap feeling stuff if they just work and the PG800 goes with the synth...so *if* I go for it, I'll get that too and if I don't like it for some reason, I sell it and replace it with an ipad or something.

MKS-80 (Rev4) with the MPG-80 was one of the synths I always wanted, but alas, insanely expensive, not as much insanity as the JP8 prices but yeah...nope.

The reason I was thinking the JX-8P is because the only thing I miss in the studio is some "Roland sound".

A6 covers (for me) the OB and Moog sounds, I have a Virus Indigo (I've had B, C, Polar TI, Snow) and Nord Lead 1 for the VA sounds... and although I do have a x0xb0x which I love, I don't have a Roland analog poly, yet...time will tell if I end up getting one. Also I think the JX-8P sounds brilliant, especially for the price.
Panason
Wave morphing/ folding/shaping, and /or wavetables. I 'm not buying another synth if it doesn't have at least one of these...

Quote:
When it gets into heavily modulated patches I'm not sure you'l hear the difference.


When I got my Neutron I very easily made a fairly complex patch involving 10 patch cables, and it sounds fantastic. I have found that I just never get round to programming such patches in synths if it involves menu diving. This is one thing that the One seems to have improved on over most other digitally controlled synths...

Having a button on each source and destination and just pressing those to connect the two is what we need, not menus.
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