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4MS DLD 'DJ style transitions' patch examples.
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Author 4MS DLD 'DJ style transitions' patch examples.
Rupert the not so great
Hey,

Was just wondering if anyone had any simple patch examples of how to achieve this? I've just read the manual a few times but can't seem to see anything that replicates what I want, however I know it's possible... I just dont know how.. hmmm.....

cheers help
hawkfuzz
Can you specify? What are you trying to do? What do you have?
Rupert the not so great
hawkfuzz wrote:
Can you specify? What are you trying to do? What do you have?


Sure, apologies. I should have elaborated. Im trying to practise a live set, thought a looper could be my friend. Got the LIP, Dixie 2, Quad filter, ADSR, Maths, (<modulation sources>) Batumi and then being sequenced from my BSP. M32 handles low end.


Pretty much, my idea is to have one voice on channel one of the BSP, and the other on the 2nd channel. I want both of them going into the DLD with extra modulation doing it's thing to keep things interesting.

Is it possible to loop channel (1) into the DLD and while thats looping change the sequence that was looped into the DLD. Then do the same with channel 2 and continually change things this way?

seriously, i just don't get it
-S.L-
basically you just want to loop "the end of track 1" to mix it with track 2, like a CDJ would do, then while it's looped, you are already busy working on another sequence/pattern or whatever.

so if that's what you want, it's possible, just when you unloop it, you can't recall it.


Quote:
I want both of them going into the DLD with extra modulation doing it's thing to keep things interesting.


that will be messy for sure.
brandonlogic
Set time division you want your loop to be.
Press the Hold button when you are ready to transition.
Turn wet/dry to fully wet.
Change the sequence on you beat step.
Fade dry signal back in to blend in new sequence.
Turn off hold.
sharkminusbear
Rupert the not so great wrote:


Is it possible to loop channel (1) into the DLD and while thats looping change the sequence that was looped into the DLD. Then do the same with channel 2 and continually change things this way?

seriously, i just don't get it


I think you are going to have a hard time getting the DLD to act like a traditional looper with overdub, etc. It is definitely possible but you’ll need to be controlling the delay feed to start and stop what you are playing from entering the loop.

You can definitely do what you are asking above, just remember that you won’t have any “undo” function and the buffers will get slightly more distorted as you start layering.
Blicken Synths
If I'm reading it right, all your audio is going into the DLD and then out from there? If that's the case you can just use an audio mixer to control what gets sent to the DLD
R.U.Nuts
Blicken Synths wrote:
If I'm reading it right, all your audio is going into the DLD and then out from there? If that's the case you can just use an audio mixer to control what gets sent to the DLD


I have both channels of my DLD hooked up to two send/return channels of my mixing desk. I use one channel for basic delay and the other one for loops and frippertronic style sound on sound effects. - Works wonderful.

Someone mentioned that the DLD can hardly be treated as a traditional looper. That's right but:
1. It can do a lot traditional loopers often can't (most obvious: clock sync and CV control of most parameters)
2. It's probably the eurorack module that comes closest to a traditional looper.
Rupert the not so great
Thanks for the responses. Much appreciated.

I know that Surgeon (if anyones into him) uses the DLD and recommended it over the OT. All a matter of opinion, I know, but his transition's are very effective.

I'd like to setup similar to what he does. I thought when buying the module I would just be able to do what im after no problem.

I do have an external mixer which I suppose could come in handy but not entirely clued up with send/return. Although, by reading i'm sure thats what I could be after.

Could anyone recommend a patch that I can setup where this sort of thing could be put into practise? Or do you's think the manual ones are suffice enough to get me started?

Thanks again,
R.U.Nuts
Rupert the not so great wrote:


Could anyone recommend a patch that I can setup where this sort of thing could be put into practise? Or do you's think the manual ones are suffice enough to get me started?



There's not a lot of patching involved in what you want to do. Just Patch an Audio source into one channel of the DLD and follow the instructions Brandonlogic posted further up.

You could make this more elaborat by changing the delay feed CV input into a dry/wet balance CV input via the system settings (I think I remember you can do this -never tried it). Then you could use a manual gate or any gate signal and mult it into the hold gate/trigger input and the dry/wet CV input. This way you could control the process of recording and holding a loop and crossfading/switching between live signal and loop with one button (the manual gate Button).
brandonlogic
This is very easy to do.
Let’s not over complicate things.
Here- I patched this up in 10 minutes



Chan 1 is doing the looping, Chan 2 is just some extra delay for flavor once in a while. At 22 seconds I go seemlesly from dry to wet where the loop is held. As long as your delay is time synced to the correct time division, you Don’t have to worry about ‘reset’ of the loops, It dosnt matter if your just blending like this.

I then change the sequence on the flxs1 and slowly fade from wet to dry, blending in the new sequence. Later in the vid, I then do the same thing, going back to the original sequence.

I’m assuming this is bassibly what your after?
I could have used channel 2 for for a separate voice but instead I just mixed the two voices before going into channel 1. But it would work just the same..
Rupert the not so great
brandonlogic wrote:
This is very easy to do.
Let’s not over complicate things.
Here- I patched this up in 10 minutes



Chan 1 is doing the looping, Chan 2 is just some extra delay for flavor once in a while. At 22 seconds I go seemlesly from dry to wet where the loop is held. As long as your delay is time synced to the correct time division, you Don’t have to worry about ‘reset’ of the loops, It dosnt matter if your just blending like this.

I then change the sequence on the flxs1 and slowly fade from wet to dry, blending in the new sequence. Later in the vid, I then do the same thing, going back to the original sequence.

I’m assuming this is bassibly what your after?
I could have used channel 2 for for a separate voice but instead I just mixed the two voices before going into channel 1. But it would work just the same..



Yeah this is pretty much what I'm after. Cheers for that! What is your patch in this?

I believe the 'ping' is for clocking with external clock? My BSP runs off Abletons clock at the moment so I can stop start and recording's will be in time if needs be. In my experience before, when I change it to 'clock' it's not in time with ableton so I'm unable to overdub when needed.

The reason I'm saying this is because I'm unsure what else I can clock my delay with that will be in time with everything else without using the BSP clock. I guess if there's no other solution then I will just use it! Any suggestions for that?
Rupert the not so great
Actually just tested the 'clock' setting on BSP and it doesn't even start!
brandonlogic
Rupert the not so great wrote:



Yeah this is pretty much what I'm after. Cheers for that! What is your patch in this?

I believe the 'ping' is for clocking with external clock? My BSP runs off Abletons clock at the moment so I can stop start and recording's will be in time if needs be. In my experience before, when I change it to 'clock' it's not in time with ableton so I'm unable to overdub when needed.

The reason I'm saying this is because I'm unsure what else I can clock my delay with that will be in time with everything else without using the BSP clock. I guess if there's no other solution then I will just use it! Any suggestions for that?


It’s really hardly a patch haha just clocking both the dld and the flxs1 sequencer from the same clock source- pams workout.

I wouldnt recommend using abletons midi clock for this. It’s known to not be perfectly stable and your loops might not sound as clean as in my example.
brandonlogic
Rupert the not so great wrote:
Actually just tested the 'clock' setting on BSP and it doesn't even start!


Sorry I don’t know anything about the BSP so I am no help there..
Rupert the not so great
Cool thanks! I've just spend the past 2 hours trying to sync it to my LIP but naaaathing!
brandonlogic
Rupert the not so great wrote:
Cool thanks! I've just spend the past 2 hours trying to sync it to my LIP but naaaathing!


What’s LIP?
Rupert the not so great
Loquelic iteritas percido - sequenced by my BSP.
brandonlogic
Rupert the not so great wrote:
Loquelic iteritas percido - sequenced by my BSP.


That module is a full synth voice right?
I dont think that even matters in this equation.

Bottom line here is: Whatever you’re using as your synth voice, needs to be sequenced by something that’s in sync with the DLD. As long as your sequencer and DLD are clocked from that same source, that’s all that matters here.
Silentnotes
brandonlogic wrote:
Rupert the not so great wrote:
Loquelic iteritas percido - sequenced by my BSP.


That module is a full synth voice right?
I dont think that even matters in this equation.

Bottom line here is: Whatever you’re using us you synth voice, needs to be sequenced by something that’s in sync with the DLD. As long as your sequencer and DLD are clocked from that same source, that’s all that matters here.

Isnt there an option on DLD to enable Hold on clock pulse? Maybe thats the problem. You need to enable quantized switching of the Hold function.
brandonlogic
Silentnotes wrote:

Isnt there an option on DLD to enable Hold on clock pulse? Maybe thats the problem. You need to enable quantized switching of the Hold function.


As you can see in my video, you don’t have to hit hold in perfect sync since I am just pressing it manually and it’s so tight you can hardly even hear when I fade from live to looped. When you hit hold, it loops what’s currently in the buffer once it reaches the end of the buffer. It does not reset the loop’s start time. Which means as long as your clock synced, you don’t have to hit hold in time at all to retain perfect sync.
Nagasaki45
RE the BSP. You can use one of the trigger channels to clock things. If the clock output is 24 ppq or something that you don't find useful use a trigger output instead with a 4/4 pattern.
Silentnotes
brandonlogic wrote:
Silentnotes wrote:

Isnt there an option on DLD to enable Hold on clock pulse? Maybe thats the problem. You need to enable quantized switching of the Hold function.


As you can see in my video, you don’t have to hit hold in perfect sync since I am just pressing it manually and it’s so tight you can hardly even hear when I fade from live to looped. When you hit hold, it loops what’s currently in the buffer once it reaches the end of the buffer. It does not reset the loop’s start time. Which means as long as your clock synced, you don’t have to hit hold in time at all to retain perfect sync.

That seems odd. How can the timing be tight if you are not hitting Hold on the beat? I would check if the option that Im talking about is enabled on your device.
Silentnotes
From the manual:
Normally, Time, Reverse, and Infinite Hold operate as you would expect in
most any device: changes to the control take effect immediately, no matter when
they occur. In the Quantized Change Mode (or QCM), any change to these
parameters (on both channels) will be delayed until the next pulse of the Ping
Clock. This has great implications for working in sync with rhythm devices and
complex patches.
The factory default setting for QCM is off. To enter QCM, hold down both of the Reverse buttons and tap the Ping button
once. The Ping and Reverse lights will flash three times evenly to show entry into QCM. Exit QCM with the same procedure,
in which case the same lights will flash six times in a staggered pattern.
QCM is best explored with a rhythmic patch, sequencer, or drum unit locked with the DLD clock (DLD can be master or
slave). Asynchronous modulations and triggers can be used freely, since they will be forced to quantize with the Ping clock. In
this sense, QCM might be thought of as a kind Sample and Hold that locks modulation sources with the fundamental time.
R.U.Nuts
Silentnotes wrote:

That seems odd. How can the timing be tight if you are not hitting Hold on the beat?


Because the delay time is synced and the delay is constantly looping in sync. Hitting the hold button offbeat does neither affect the delay time nor does it shift the recorded loop out of phase. Hold only prevents the delay from recording new material into it's buffer and from erasing the recording that was present in the buffer at the moment you hit hold.
brandonlogic
R.U.Nuts wrote:
Silentnotes wrote:

That seems odd. How can the timing be tight if you are not hitting Hold on the beat?


Because the delay time is synced and the delay is constantly looping in sync. Hitting the hold button offbeat does neither affect the delay time nor does it shift the recorded loop out of phase. Hold only prevents the delay from recording new material into it's buffer and from erasing the recording that was present in the buffer at the moment you hit hold.

Exactly applause
Silentnotes
brandonlogic wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:
Silentnotes wrote:

That seems odd. How can the timing be tight if you are not hitting Hold on the beat?


Because the delay time is synced and the delay is constantly looping in sync. Hitting the hold button offbeat does neither affect the delay time nor does it shift the recorded loop out of phase. Hold only prevents the delay from recording new material into it's buffer and from erasing the recording that was present in the buffer at the moment you hit hold.

Exactly applause

Oh ok, I get it. Thanks guys. What is Quantized Hold good for then? I cant think of any other case..
Rupert the not so great
Thanks for the info guys! Im gonna try it all out tonight. I'll try clocking the DLD with a 4/4 trigger from the BSP. Not sure why I never thought of that.. Hopefully it works.

As far as clocking goes.. do I need to clock only the 'PING' or do I need to clock 'loop A' and 'loop B' as well?

seriously, i just don't get it
R.U.Nuts
Silentnotes wrote:
brandonlogic wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:
Silentnotes wrote:

That seems odd. How can the timing be tight if you are not hitting Hold on the beat?


Because the delay time is synced and the delay is constantly looping in sync. Hitting the hold button offbeat does neither affect the delay time nor does it shift the recorded loop out of phase. Hold only prevents the delay from recording new material into it's buffer and from erasing the recording that was present in the buffer at the moment you hit hold.

Exactly applause

Oh ok, I get it. Thanks guys. What is Quantized Hold good for then? I cant think of any other case..


Three use cases I can think of:

1.: If you want to replace only a section of a loop with a new recording. For example, you recorded a 16 step loop and want to replace the last four steps of that loop with something else.
2.: If you have feedback turned up higher in order to record an overdub. For example you have a loop recorded and hold enabled. now you turn up the feedback so once you disengage hold, a second recording is dubbed over the old one. In this case it's important to keep hold disengaged for exactly the lenght of the loop because if hold is disengaged for shorter you obviously won't record an overdub over the entire lenght of the loop. On the other hand if you disengage hold for longer than one roundtrip of the loop, you'll add a third overdub as soon as the loop has finished it's cycle.
3. If you want to record a loop wich is shorter or longer than the sequence you're recording. For example you have a 16 step sequence running and you have set the DLD's delay time to three steps to record an exact slice of three steps from that sequence.
R.U.Nuts
Rupert the not so great wrote:


As far as clocking goes.. do I need to clock only the 'PING' or do I need to clock 'loop A' and 'loop B' as well?

seriously, i just don't get it


Loop A and B are clock outputs not inputs hihi They spit out a gate that syncs to the delay time of the corresponding channel. Don't wanna sound rude but have you read the manual?
sillyquestions?
Not rude at all. I appreciate the reply. I've read it three times now in two days. Getting there a little but i've learned more asking on here. Some people connect with a manual, I don't.

In saying that, it's definetly one of the better ones ive read. IMO.
Rupert the not so great
wooops! I never signed my bro out on that one ^ that's me btw applause Guinness ftw!
hawkfuzz
sillyquestions? wrote:
Not rude at all. I appreciate the reply. I've read it three times now in two days. Getting there a little but i've learned more asking on here. Some people connect with a manual, I don't.

In saying that, it's definetly one of the better ones ive read. IMO.


Reading the manual doesn’t really help in most cases. You are supposed to play with the functions as you read them. It’s not instant but it’s how you end up understanding what your module can and cannot do and maximize your system.
Mashmore
Rupert the not so great wrote:
Thanks for the info guys! Im gonna try it all out tonight. I'll try clocking the DLD with a 4/4 trigger from the BSP. Not sure why I never thought of that.. Hopefully it works.

As far as clocking goes.. do I need to clock only the 'PING' or do I need to clock 'loop A' and 'loop B' as well?

seriously, i just don't get it


Clocking the ping input clocks a and b. The time knobs and switches do the rest.
brandonlogic
As a seasoned DLD user, I honestly never even tried this specific use of the DLD before I made the video for this thread. I am pleselty surprised by the results. It really is a perfect module for this application IMO. I am going to incorporate this into my next solo live performace. Perfect transitional tool. So much more interesting than just a hard cut pattern change. If you have headphones you could even cue up the next pattern and make all kinds of changes to a patch before and preview it in the headphones before making the transition. Such a useful live performace tool.

DLD is seriously once of my favorite euro modules.
Essential euro module for any system IMo. If I could only have one delay module in my rack, it would be this one.
Rupert the not so great
From what I seen with brandonlogic's video it's exactly what I bought the module for. Im looking forward to trying all this out tomorrow. Im now thinking the 4MS PEG could be a great addition also... but thats me just catching the bug right?... meh

Thanks for all the inputs people. It's much appreciated. Rockin' Banana!
brandonlogic
Rupert the not so great wrote:
From what I seen with brandonlogic's video it's exactly what I bought the module for. Im looking forward to trying all this out tomorrow. Im now thinking the 4MS PEG could be a great addition also... but thats me just catching the bug right?... meh

Thanks for all the inputs people. It's much appreciated. Rockin' Banana!


SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
sharkminusbear
Great tips! I hadn't thought about using it to loop and crossfade like this and it really does work well. It's also fun to mess with the windowing of the loop while holding the button and then switch back to the dry signal.
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