5U questions from a Eurorack user !

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-S.L-
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5U questions from a Eurorack user !

Post by -S.L- » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:59 am

Hi !

My first post in the 5U forum section :yay:

I'm a Eurorack big system owner. I do love it. The endless choice, the possibilities etc...

Some stuff that I like a bit less, the size of the module and ergonomy might be too small at some point.

Anyway, I have zero experience with the 5U format. I just love the way it looks (no we don't buy instrument only for the look), but the big size and uniformity of a big system is very appeallinng i have to say :love:

So from the experienced users here, would you say that 5U is (even) more expensive than Eurorack land ? Is there any affordable brand, equivalent like Doepfer but in the 5U world ? (I love Doepfer for its simplicity, on module/knob per function, I even like the look of it)

I know that there is less choice in terms of crazy possibilities, but it doesn't bother me much as like I said, I like Doepfer too. And it seems that 5U is getting into some more modern functions too, just hope it won't turn into the mess like Euro with the mini modules that does 5000 things into it, mini computer that are really a turn off for me.

Thanks for your inside ! I do love you vintage all black looking systems, kind of jealous :party:

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Post by tehfizzle » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:18 am

synthesizers.com

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Post by -S.L- » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:22 am

i know about the dot.com . I'm guessing it's the Doepfer equivalent in 5U.

But it's not answering my initial question. 5U is more expensive ? About the same ? Cheaper ?

:despair:

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Post by Brendanleespengler » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:25 am

I have both a Euro and a 5U system. You are correct on the ergonomically aspect. The larger form is much easier to control by hand, as the patch cables are less dense. It is also, generally, much more affordable. You can begin a synthesizers.com system on a monthly payment plan and within a year you will have a 2 oscillator, 1 filter, 2env, 1vca, etc. system with MIDI capability. Of course, you can buy more modules along the way. I would not say MUs mo is modern capability. Generally, again, MU is conceptually function per module with an East Coast Moog-inspired slant. However, STG, Moon Modular, FSFX, Noise Engineering (!) and other manufacturers are expanding these concepts. Even synthesizers.com is making denser modules with unique, more unconventional ideas lately. And, for the price and quality, a dotcom system is a relatively cheap and powerful way to start.
And, MU systems are in black!
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Post by anomie » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:03 am

Aesthetics and haptics are a big part of how we interact with a musical instrument or system, so liking the looks of 5u is a good place to start! The ergonomics of it are great (better than Euro or Buchla IMO), but if you're used to playing live with a Euro system, 5u will be less portable.

It's difficult to compare cost though. Brendan makes a good point above about the affordability of .com systems, but in general I think 5u is a little more pricey unless you're able to DIY. The stuff is bombproof though - I never even need to tune my MOTM VCOs!

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Post by Huba-Swift » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:07 am

From what I've observed, MU isn't much more expensive than euro when it comes to modules, especially if you're buying from Dotcom. The one area where MU seems to be more expensive are the cabinets. A 44 space Dotcom studio cabinet will run you about $700 USD for instance, and that doesn't include power, just the case. The power supply with wiring harness and a power interface module will be another $380. Do keep in mind though that this is a walnut cabinet and a linear power supply. The quality of this stuff is leagues better than the compact switch-mode power supplies you often see in euro land. Way less noise, much more reliable.

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Post by bwhittington » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:25 am

Things like Euro conversions are more expensive, or when the same module offered in two formats, the 5U will be more because of the panel/hardware costs (and sometimes additional features :party:).

As a user of both, the one place I see the large format being cool beyond just being luxe spacious and its vintage looks is its larger pots. Seems easier to dial in specific things on sequencers, etc.

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Post by josaka » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:27 am

its not on par.. apart from a few companies like .com..
dove audio, frequency central and noise engineering released 5u versions of their euro modules.. they all are £100 or $100 more ..for the same module.

second hand market in 5u is decent..

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Post by -S.L- » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:29 am

Thanks for these answers. Being an absolute newbies in the MU world, is there any incompabilities between different brand in terms of powering ? Do they have standard like Doepfer power adapter ? Can I buy let's say a Moon Modular module and plug & play into a dot.com cabinet/power supplies for example ?

Sorry you probably heard those questions millions of time :hail:

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Post by Shledge » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:40 am

They have a different power standard and connector, and even that standard varies between some 5U brands.

That said, a fair few eurorack modules can easily at 15v in common 5U configurations.

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Post by bwhittington » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:03 pm

Check out the stickies! Mainly: viewtopic.php?t=1739

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Post by Huba-Swift » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:08 pm

-S.L- wrote:Thanks for these answers. Being an absolute newbies in the MU world, is there any incompabilities between different brand in terms of powering ? Do they have standard like Doepfer power adapter ? Can I buy let's say a Moon Modular module and plug & play into a dot.com cabinet/power supplies for example ?

Sorry you probably heard those questions millions of time :hail:
Yup, Dotcom and Moon modular are both compatible with the same power connectors. A few of the only places where you will see otherwise will be with MOTM modules which use different width increments for the panels, and different power connectors. The Modcan B series are an example of MOTM modules. They are perfectly compatible with MU modules apart from the different power connector and slightly smaller widths. The other place where you'll see different power standards are with some Moog clone systems where they are using the +12 -6v that the original Moog modulars use. Most of these moog clone manufacturers, such as Synth-Werk, make the modules with either +12v -6v, or +/-15v depending on what the customer has specified. Other than that virually everything in MU is Dotcom compatible.

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Post by -S.L- » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:14 pm

Huba-Swift wrote:
-S.L- wrote:Thanks for these answers. Being an absolute newbies in the MU world, is there any incompabilities between different brand in terms of powering ? Do they have standard like Doepfer power adapter ? Can I buy let's say a Moon Modular module and plug & play into a dot.com cabinet/power supplies for example ?

Sorry you probably heard those questions millions of time :hail:
Yup, Dotcom and Moon modular are both compatible with the same power connectors. A few of the only places where you will see otherwise will be with MOTM modules which use different width increments for the panels, and different power connectors. The Modcan B series are an example of MOTM modules. They are perfectly compatible with MU modules apart from the different power connector and slightly smaller widths. The other place where you'll see different power standards are with some Moog clone systems where they are using the +12 -6v that the original Moog modulars use. Most of these moog clone manufacturers, such as Synth-Werk, make the modules with either +12v -6v, or +/-15v depending on what the customer has specified. Other than that virually everything in MU is Dotcom compatible.
Thank you Huba-Swift ! What about Club Of The Knobs ? I soon move to Lisbon, will be tempting to get to see what's on their side too :yay: :75:

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Post by josaka » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:50 pm

such as Synth-Werk, make the modules with either +12v -6v, or +/-15v depending on what the customer has specified. Other than that virually everything in MU is Dotcom compatible.
Synth-werk comes 15v .com ready the mos-lab uses a different power adapter and power(seb sells a little .com power buss adapter for €39).. gerhard is using internal power convertion to get the original moog 12v levels.. the real only thing of note with the moog clones SW & Mos-Lab ..is the output levels are quieter.. .com out is 10v while the SW/ML are 1.3 or 1.5 whatever the original moogs were using..

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Post by Huba-Swift » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:08 pm

-S.L- wrote:
Huba-Swift wrote:
-S.L- wrote:Thanks for these answers. Being an absolute newbies in the MU world, is there any incompabilities between different brand in terms of powering ? Do they have standard like Doepfer power adapter ? Can I buy let's say a Moon Modular module and plug & play into a dot.com cabinet/power supplies for example ?

Sorry you probably heard those questions millions of time :hail:
Yup, Dotcom and Moon modular are both compatible with the same power connectors. A few of the only places where you will see otherwise will be with MOTM modules which use different width increments for the panels, and different power connectors. The Modcan B series are an example of MOTM modules. They are perfectly compatible with MU modules apart from the different power connector and slightly smaller widths. The other place where you'll see different power standards are with some Moog clone systems where they are using the +12 -6v that the original Moog modulars use. Most of these moog clone manufacturers, such as Synth-Werk, make the modules with either +12v -6v, or +/-15v depending on what the customer has specified. Other than that virually everything in MU is Dotcom compatible.
Thank you Huba-Swift ! What about Club Of The Knobs ? I soon move to Lisbon, will be tempting to get to see what's on their side too :yay: :75:
I don't own any COTK, but judging by their site ( http://www.cluboftheknobs.com/technical.html ) it seems like they normally use a ribbon power connector, but can also be built to have a Dotcom power connector instead.

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Post by Huba-Swift » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:12 pm

josaka wrote:
such as Synth-Werk, make the modules with either +12v -6v, or +/-15v depending on what the customer has specified. Other than that virually everything in MU is Dotcom compatible.
Synth-werk comes 15v .com ready the mos-lab uses a different power adapter and power(seb sells a little .com power buss adapter for €39).. gerhard is using internal power convertion to get the original moog 12v levels.. the real only thing of note with the moog clones SW & Mos-Lab ..is the output levels are quieter.. .com out is 10v while the SW/ML are 1.3 or 1.5 whatever the original moogs were using..
Totally forgot about the smaller moog peak-peak voltages. moog filters and VCAs would still be able to process the 10v p-p signals from other manufacturers I presume though, is that correct? You'd just need some sort of pre-amp module for the VCOs or whatever other sound sources.

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Post by josaka » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:59 pm

yes.. the .com Q125 and Q114 are suffice.. :)

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Post by -S.L- » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:39 pm

The main issue with dot.com systems is that it is made in the US, and I'm in Europe, meaning that shipping will cost a fortune, but mostly custom taxes will be huge too. :cry:

There are Europeann optionn such as MOS-Lab or COTK but it is rather expensive as far as I can see :75:

Does any European customer ever ordered from Synthesizers.com before ?

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Post by josaka » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:57 pm

loads of us are in europe.. we get raped.

corsynth - krisp1 - synth-werk - mos lab - curetronic - dove Audio - Frequency central

All in EU..

also .. avoid paypal.. adds 10% or so.(use direct payment via cards like revolut- monzo with 0 fees and great Xchange rates)

if you can DIY there are 3 or 4 great options in EU

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Post by -S.L- » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:02 pm

so basically if you are not in the US, MU cost a fortune

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Post by burdij » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:47 pm

-S.L- wrote:The main issue with dot.com systems is that it is made in the US, and I'm in Europe, meaning that shipping will cost a fortune, but mostly custom taxes will be huge too. :cry:
Cabinetry and heavy items are going to be an issue when ordering from the US but most modules can be shipped for a fairly reasonable cost. Of course, customs fees and taxes at the receiving end will add to the cost but these are going to be paid, as I understand it, by anyone living in Europe even on internally purchased goods due to the value added taxes which seem to average around 20%.

I regularly ship to Europe and Australia. As an example of the shipping cost, a four pound package to Amsterdam, which is three to four typical modules costs $61 USD by First Class International (an air service), tracked and insured for the declared amount. On a per module basis that averages out to about 30-40% more than the shipping for the same item domestically.

This is a fixed rate for up to four pounds so obviously if less than three or four modules are ordered together the per module shipping cost will be a larger percentage.
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Post by hsosdrum » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:31 pm

josaka wrote:corsynth - krisp1 - synth-werk - mos lab - curetronic - dove Audio - Frequency central
All in EU..
Dove Audio and Krisp1 will only be in the EU for another 40 days or so...

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Post by Voltage_Controller » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:51 pm

>>Dove Audio and Krisp1 will only be in the EU for another 40 days or so...

I hadn't heard this. I am hoping to get my hands on the new Grove Audio sequencer - are they moving?
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:52 am

Synthesizers.Com rocks!

Image
5U NORMALIZING PROJECT (for your entertainment) viewtopic.php?t=78836&highlight=

SCREW IT ... PULL THE PIN

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Post by JohnLRice » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:59 am

Voltage_Controller wrote:>>Dove Audio and Krisp1 will only be in the EU for another 40 days or so...

I hadn't heard this. I am hoping to get my hands on the new Grove Audio sequencer - are they moving?

Dove Audio
and
Grove Audio
are two different companies! :tu:

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