MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

STO vs. Telharmonic vs. ????
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author STO vs. Telharmonic vs. ????
slicetwo
I'm about to start building a small 168hp rack to compliment my 0Coast and other gear (AnalogFour, Digitone, Virus C, Octatrack) and I'm debating between these 2 oscillators (along with an Antumbra SMOG - a Clouds clone). Since this is my first time diving in, I'm not even sure if either of those things are right for me. I'm really interested in trying to patch up dynamic sounds that almost sound like acoustic instruments, while still being obvious that they're not "real" instruments (if that makes sense).


Here is a modulargrid of some ideas I have for modules (which will probably take me a loooong time to build out): https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/379983


Thanks!
ggillon
The general advice around here (and it's a good one) is build your modular one module at a time because when you start you don't really have any experience of what you can and want to achieve with your modules.

Now for the question about STO or Thelarmonic;

Telharmonic is based on a DSP and for what I heard from it it sounds very far from acoustic instruments.

STO is a basic VCO and VCO are one of the building blocks of sound sculpting. But as it is it won't give you as much flexibility as a dual VCO that you can patch for FM sounds.


If you really want to go into "accoustic-like" sounds you have to go into physical modelling modules or synths (Karplus-Strong stuff, 2HP Strings or Bells, Volca Drum, etc...)


0-coast is already an awesome sound source as it stands and missing very few stuff commonly found in modular setups. Basically it lacks effects and more modulation sources, otherwise it covers almost all fronts.

My recommendation thus would be to start your modular with modulation/effect modules, then when you are more familiar with modular synthesis expand with more voices (VCO/VCA/Modulation/Effects).


But honestly I don't think modular is the best/most financially sound decision if your end goal is really to do Karplus-Strong / Physical modelling style of sounds. IMHO you have to embrace the electronic aspect of modular sound synthesis otherwise it's wasted space and money VS physical modelling DSPs and VSTs


e: this video might interest you

Nerdherder
Building on the 0-Coasts strengths by adding modulation sources and effects (as mentioned above) plus an additional voice to blend in (I'd go with something like MI Plaits so you can experiment with many voice types) would be my route.
MarcelP
Good thoughtful advice above.

Just addressing the STO/Telharmonic conundrum: they are very different beasts. If you want “like an acoustic sound but electronic” from the Make Noise stable then a Mysteron might be more interesting for you - I believe it is discontinued but should be readily available second hand. It has a weird character all of its own - sort of organic/electronic, and also makes a good sound source to drive into Rings (which you might also be interested in).
Niamac
I personally find Telharmonic very difficult to work with. It does get used and can amaze me but I don’t really find it all that flexible in getting it to sit well in a mix. This is only my opinion and others here have worked wonders with it but it is by no means instint gratification and requires careful patching
slicetwo
ggillon wrote:
The general advice around here (and it's a good one) is build your modular one module at a time because when you start you don't really have any experience of what you can and want to achieve with your modules.

Now for the question about STO or Thelarmonic;

Telharmonic is based on a DSP and for what I heard from it it sounds very far from acoustic instruments.

STO is a basic VCO and VCO are one of the building blocks of sound sculpting. But as it is it won't give you as much flexibility as a dual VCO that you can patch for FM sounds.


If you really want to go into "accoustic-like" sounds you have to go into physical modelling modules or synths (Karplus-Strong stuff, 2HP Strings or Bells, Volca Drum, etc...)


0-coast is already an awesome sound source as it stands and missing very few stuff commonly found in modular setups. Basically it lacks effects and more modulation sources, otherwise it covers almost all fronts.

My recommendation thus would be to start your modular with modulation/effect modules, then when you are more familiar with modular synthesis expand with more voices (VCO/VCA/Modulation/Effects).


But honestly I don't think modular is the best/most financially sound decision if your end goal is really to do Karplus-Strong / Physical modelling style of sounds. IMHO you have to embrace the electronic aspect of modular sound synthesis otherwise it's wasted space and money VS physical modelling DSPs and VSTs


I'm all for embracing the electronic aspect of modular, but I want the flexibility of modular to have another way to play with sound design. I'm more interested, in the end, of having a box that is almost 1 full voice with tons of modulation possibilities to allow for the biggest variety of sounds. I can def. look into the physical modeling stuff as opposed to the 2 oscillators I'm asking about. Part of the fun for me is exploring sound design and having a small contained modular rack. I'm looking at this as just one more sound source that is wildly flexible but self-contained.

I've been doing a lot of reading and research into synthesis and sound design, and modular allows me to do routings that are usually difficult to find in regular synths (hardware or VST). If it doesn't work out, it's not like I can't sell the modules down the road for most of the money back.

My first step is def. more modulators for my 0Coast, but eventually, I also want to add another voice for layering or just to have another sound. I also plan on using my current hardware as a sound source.
ggillon
slicetwo wrote:
ggillon wrote:
The general advice around here (and it's a good one) is build your modular one module at a time because when you start you don't really have any experience of what you can and want to achieve with your modules.

Now for the question about STO or Thelarmonic;

Telharmonic is based on a DSP and for what I heard from it it sounds very far from acoustic instruments.

STO is a basic VCO and VCO are one of the building blocks of sound sculpting. But as it is it won't give you as much flexibility as a dual VCO that you can patch for FM sounds.


If you really want to go into "accoustic-like" sounds you have to go into physical modelling modules or synths (Karplus-Strong stuff, 2HP Strings or Bells, Volca Drum, etc...)


0-coast is already an awesome sound source as it stands and missing very few stuff commonly found in modular setups. Basically it lacks effects and more modulation sources, otherwise it covers almost all fronts.

My recommendation thus would be to start your modular with modulation/effect modules, then when you are more familiar with modular synthesis expand with more voices (VCO/VCA/Modulation/Effects).


But honestly I don't think modular is the best/most financially sound decision if your end goal is really to do Karplus-Strong / Physical modelling style of sounds. IMHO you have to embrace the electronic aspect of modular sound synthesis otherwise it's wasted space and money VS physical modelling DSPs and VSTs


I'm all for embracing the electronic aspect of modular, but I want the flexibility of modular to have another way to play with sound design. I'm more interested, in the end, of having a box that is almost 1 full voice with tons of modulation possibilities to allow for the biggest variety of sounds. I can def. look into the physical modeling stuff as opposed to the 2 oscillators I'm asking about. Part of the fun for me is exploring sound design and having a small contained modular rack. I'm looking at this as just one more sound source that is wildly flexible but self-contained.

I've been doing a lot of reading and research into synthesis and sound design, and modular allows me to do routings that are usually difficult to find in regular synths (hardware or VST). If it doesn't work out, it's not like I can't sell the modules down the road for most of the money back.

My first step is def. more modulators for my 0Coast, but eventually, I also want to add another voice for layering or just to have another sound. I also plan on using my current hardware as a sound source.


I can understand and hence why I recommended more modulation, effect and then adding more VCOs.

If your objective is maximum flexibility then definitely choose a beefier VCO than STO or Telharmonic because they are quite limited. A 2 VCO module would be the minimum I think. Or a digital VCO like Braids/Plaits or wavetable modules. A versatile VCO plus tons of modulation is an excellent starting point.

My digression on physical modelling was more that to achieve it without a dedicated DSP module would require a lot of different modules just to achieve something that is very easily done digitally. And since you said you wanted more "accoustic" sounds I supposed you meant you want to achieve something very different than the usual sounds you get from more "classic" synthesis. Might just be me not understanding what you meant by that
wm.wragg
For sound design and flexibility I would build up the compliment rack with synthesis elements like VCAs, Wave Folders, Ring modulators, mixers, swiches etc., rather than picking modules like the Telharmonic which is essentially a synth voice on it’s own.

As others have said, I’d take it slow, go a module at a time, and see how it fits in with what you want to do, and really learn it. To start off I’d go with the STO, and a Maths. This will add lots of flexibilty to your 0-coast, and you should be able to do a lot of sound design with just the 0-coast and those two modules. See how you go, and then perhaps add a Ring Mod (moddemix) and a mixer, as the 0-coast already has a wavefolder, the add some effects like delay and reverb.
cptnal
How about the Dixie II+ as an alternative to the STO. It's has all the basic waveforms you'd want to use for more complex sounds rather than sine or variable.

And I'd certainly agree that Telharmonic is its own animal. Choose this one only after much consideration.
slicetwo
Man. Lots of good advice in here. It seems like I should just get Rings, Clouds, and Plaits as voices and processors, then a bunch of modulation. I have a buddy with a massive rack (not the chest kind) and he has a bunch of these pieces. I guess I should take my 0Coast over there for a few days and just test tons of stuff out.
southberry
the new Tides too can be a quad LFO or VCO with chords
starthief
I do think a VCO is a good complement to an 0-Coast, because you can do a lot more with two VCOs than one. But I would suggest choosing something that works as a versatile modulator and/or a VCO -- like Tides, Just Friends, Falistri etc.

Or perhaps a Warps, which gives you lots of audio processing options and has an internal VCO.

slicetwo wrote:
I guess I should take my 0Coast over there for a few days and just test tons of stuff out.


That's the best idea honestly thumbs up
Monotremata
starthief wrote:
But I would suggest choosing something that works as a versatile modulator and/or a VCO -- like Tides, Just Friends, Falistri etc.


The Dixie II mentioned earlier fits this as well. Does both LFO and VCO duties, and has a nice selection of waveforms available.
Bergie
I use both the STO and the Telharmonic modules and for my application they serve different purposes.

The STO is great for melodies and the Telharmonic is great for chords and textures.

I hope that helps.
Dedal
I vote for both, but I sell telharm and keep STO forever! we're not worthy
Muff McMuff
Rings should be one of your choices. Exactly what you are looking for.
cloudleft
A filter that self oscillates would give you both a sound source, and a processor for the 0-coast (which does not have a filter, yeah?)

If the self oscillating filter can sweep down to subaudio then you also have an LFO.

aaaand you can ping many such filters with gates and transients to get nice plucky "real-ish" instrument sounds. doesn't the 0-coast have a few gate outputs?

have fun!
Estes
For real sounds check out karplus strong synthesis. Very short delays can create sort of strings (I have the one from cg products). For percussion sounds you will need super snappy envelopes like maths and a lxd for example. And if you want to bring them to life I often use attenuated tube modules. The magic is to find those sweet spots. For mallet spunds check out thru zero oscillators like this one for example. https://youtu.be/w5PRJb3EoHc

I used to beginn with clouds but I got super fast bored of the sounds. Its more fun to dive in deep until you found a unique sweet spot.

Pinging a filter is also a nice technique for mallet sounds.
https://youtu.be/kLiLdojN5TU
southberry
I don't think the Telharmonic is a good choice for real instruments. It has been the core of my system during years. It's not "an easy" module and it needs modulation to shine and go beyond its basic sound palette (which can sounds kitch sometimes.)
Beyond that it's one of the best module to create electric guitar sounds. It can sounds like a powerful metal things. Just send the P out into FM and take the H out and you're in. Also perfect for rich metallic / percussive sounds, stuffs like singing bowl etc
It's also perfect for drones (instant ambient if you add a bit of reverb and a LPF or adjust Flux to remove some of its harmonic ....)
I've also intensely use it at unison with a small detune on the integral ... sounds so gooood

but TH will needs at least a sequencer and a CV beast like Maths ... not the VCO I will choose to extend a O-Coast ... I don't understand why Make Noise doesn't do more videos with TH tricks .... this module can sounds boring if you don't patch it
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Page 1 of 1
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group