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Befaco Kickall trigger sensitivity question
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author Befaco Kickall trigger sensitivity question
ambrohski
I just built the Kickall, and have realized a frustrating aspect of it's functionality. The intensity of the output signal is affected by the trigger voltage, good for some people I'm sure, but not great as I intend to use it. My Grids and SWT16 both put out a seemingly weak trigger voltage, and the Kickall is pretty weak sounding. I run the triggers through my Befaco dual attenuverter, but adding an offset to the signal only improves it a little bit.

Is there a possible resistor value substitution anyone might suggest that I could try swapping out? I'm hoping to diminish the influence on the output amplitude due to the voltage of the trigger. I'm down to try anything (and I'm not married to my idea as a viable solution), but my understanding of circuit theory is not strong enough to swing it myself.

Here is the Kickall schematic https://befaco.org/docs/Kickall/Kickall_V1_sch.pdf

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thanks! seriously, i just don't get it
ambrohski
Nothing?

I know there has got to be a simple solution out there, with the wealth of expertise in this forum, can someone help a brotha out? we're not worthy
sirjpink
ambrohski wrote:
Nothing?

I know there has got to be a simple solution out there, with the wealth of expertise in this forum, can someone help a brotha out? we're not worthy

Weirder and weirder... but yeah, I checked this comparing the Kickall output when triggered from the trigger button, a BSP and from my DFAM and using the DFAM trigger makes the Kickall sound more muted. No difference between BSP and trigger button.

No clue what to do about it, though... confused
Befacosynth
Hey!
We are investigating this issue at the moment. currently we know that this is cuased by the combination of 5v triggers (instead of healthy 10v ones) and narrow pulses (around 1 - 2 ms).

So amplifying the triggers will help, but there is a need to make the triggers wider.

From our side changing R100 to 100k and IC101 to an LF412 helps a bit.
We are working on a fix for our hardware to be inmune to this behaviour. Will update as soon as a defenitive fix is available.
ambrohski
Befaco is the best- I can't stress this enough.

At the risk of delaying my DIY GAS satisfaction when they drop new kits, due to them being a hot commodity- I must strongly endorse. I've built close to 700 HP of modules from a good portion of the manufacturers out there in the realm of DIYable eurorack. All kinds of shit arises when doing so, and I have had really great support from Befaco every time I've had any issues (mostly due to my own clunky skill-set FUUUCCKKKK!!! ). This, in combination with how musical (and fun) their gear is, I've gotta shout about it.

Thanks for your reply, and the more in-depth one given via e-mail. You are doing great work, and I respect your company's ethos in supporting the DIY spirit. Hats off to you for some the best designed, and flat out rockin' kit available. nanners
freerider197
Any update on this? I am also having this "issue"
Befacosynth
freerider197 wrote:
Any update on this? I am also having this "issue"

As stated before, we found kickall has an incompatibility with any trigger source lower than 5 ms. The easy solution is to use wider triggers!

As a permanent fix to this interaction we have modified kickall design and will be included in Kickall v1C version. If you cannot generate wider triggers in your system, You can make a lil board with a flip flop and a buffer and wire it to your trigger path. See schematic for that section attached.
freerider197
Thanks for the quick reply but unfortunately this is out of my knowledge. I am super happy to know you're working on a new revision with this feature upgrade build it and I'd rather wait for it, I love my Kickall anyway smile
Keep us posted.
guest
heres something to try that might work for you:

1. remove R100 and C101
2. put R100 where C101 used to be
3. solder C101 across R114
jgb
Hmm, I have quite a bit of suggestions for how to improve the kickall, but that will definitely take it outside of 6 HP territory. smile
freerider197
guest wrote:
heres something to try that might work for you:

1. remove R100 and C101
2. put R100 where C101 used to be
3. solder C101 across R114


Sounds like something I'd do. As long as I can "revert" back to the original component arrangment...


jgb wrote:
Hmm, I have quite a bit of suggestions for how to improve the kickall, but that will definitely take it outside of 6 HP territory.


How do you mean?
jgb
freerider197 wrote:

jgb wrote:
Hmm, I have quite a bit of suggestions for how to improve the kickall, but that will definitely take it outside of 6 HP territory.


How do you mean?


Well, here is a list of things I would love to see in a Kickall V2. smile
- Variable shape for decays. There is something to the pitch envelope that I do not really like. Having used an external envelope where I could vary the shape made it better. As for the amplitude envelope, it would also be more flexible and usable if it had variable shape.
- Another envelope, to be used for shape modulation
- Built in possibility to layer a short burst of noise (or similar) at the start of the kick, "attack" on the 909
- Use the other waveforms from the 3340 chip. Personally I really like triangle for making kicks.

Some suggestions. I have tried each one of them, using other envelopes and VCA:s to get the results that I wanted.
guest
freerider197 wrote:
Sounds like something I'd do. As long as I can "revert" back to the original component arrangment...


yeah, its just as easy to revert it back. that should help make it consistent for pulse widths less than a few milliseconds. for pulse widths over a few milliseconds, it might extend the gate too much, in which case i have another fix that would allow any signal (pulse or gate) to give the same length output.
freerider197
jgb wrote:
freerider197 wrote:

jgb wrote:
Hmm, I have quite a bit of suggestions for how to improve the kickall, but that will definitely take it outside of 6 HP territory.


How do you mean?


Well, here is a list of things I would love to see in a Kickall V2. smile
- Variable shape for decays. There is something to the pitch envelope that I do not really like. Having used an external envelope where I could vary the shape made it better. As for the amplitude envelope, it would also be more flexible and usable if it had variable shape.
- Another envelope, to be used for shape modulation
- Built in possibility to layer a short burst of noise (or similar) at the start of the kick, "attack" on the 909
- Use the other waveforms from the 3340 chip. Personally I really like triangle for making kicks.

Some suggestions. I have tried each one of them, using other envelopes and VCA:s to get the results that I wanted.


there is a lot to dig here. I also do not really entirely like the envelope. I found myself using just the first 20/25% of the "Time" knob range, anything above becomes somehow too much. (Maybe also taht can be adjusted byt a different resistor value?)
freerider197
Quick update, I have the C version of pcb and the issue is fixed grin
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