Equinox

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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akairipper
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Equinox

Post by akairipper » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:21 am

this?

wiggling without prejudice as to which credit card I scorch.

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cackland
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Post by cackland » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:57 am

Thought you meant the Gym chain..

Interesting video, although if the promotion is a sequence of modules, would of been great if the sound example was only those modules and didn't consist of others.

The mentioned website doesn't provide any individual sound examples either. :sadbanana:

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hawkfuzz
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Post by hawkfuzz » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:37 pm

Great. I've been campaigning my friends to get into Eurorack but it's expensive. Cheap is great.

Someone should connect these people to RE so we can knock that price of the NG down, now that there's easier manufacturing techniques.

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Roy72
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Post by Roy72 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:07 pm

Does anyone here know about these manufacturing techniques? I would expect that it requires large volumes to make it stack up, set up costs etc.

The modules look ok, sort of Doepfer like in that they are one-module one-function.
it will be interesting to see what they mean by affordable, I can't see prices.

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Post by adam » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:13 pm

yes, there are a few fairly obvious things rob seems to miss in that video

mobile phones are cheaper to manufacture because they do prototype runs of 10000 and some euro manufacturers do full production runs of 100 or under

i'd say that pick and place manufacture is increasingly the norm in euro, even doepfer seems to be getting into it ;)

Gandalf
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Post by Gandalf » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:55 pm

Well I couldn't really disagree more with Rob at the moment.
Eurorack is not a small market - has he seen how many modules there are in ModularGrid, that's not a small number especially when compared with 4U and 5U.
And as Adam pointed out, surface-mount really only pays off when you have high volumes per run. There is a setup cost per run that has to be offset against the number of boards being manufactured. Then with the high numbers required you have to have a lot of stock (components, pcbs, panels, hardware....) to cover that build quantity.
And that is for only ONE module (or unit in the case of the Equinox). Now do that for 40 or 50 modules and you are in for a MASSIVE upfront spend and will be carrying a MASSIVE amount of stock until it is sold.
I am sure manufacturers would love to build 100 pieces of a given module and sell them all within 2 or 3 months but that is not the way it works.
I would love to see the numbers that Rob has for the Equinox, how many units did he build, what was the upfront cost for that, how long will it take him to sell enough units to recover his costs and make a tiny margin. would he do that with 20 other designs all at the same time.
The real life fact is that thru-hole assembly is the more viable option for most module manufacturers who can then build as they need rather than have to commit carrying stocks of built modules.
Surface Mount may, occasionally be cheaper in parts but some boutique designs require as-near original parts for older designs and you can't do that with SM.

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cackland
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Post by cackland » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:22 pm

Gandalf wrote:Well I couldn't really disagree more with Rob at the moment.
Eurorack is not a small market - has he seen how many modules there are in ModularGrid, that's not a small number especially when compared with 4U and 5U.
And as Adam pointed out, surface-mount really only pays off when you have high volumes per run. There is a setup cost per run that has to be offset against the number of boards being manufactured. Then with the high numbers required you have to have a lot of stock (components, pcbs, panels, hardware....) to cover that build quantity.
And that is for only ONE module (or unit in the case of the Equinox). Now do that for 40 or 50 modules and you are in for a MASSIVE upfront spend and will be carrying a MASSIVE amount of stock until it is sold.
I am sure manufacturers would love to build 100 pieces of a given module and sell them all within 2 or 3 months but that is not the way it works.
I would love to see the numbers that Rob has for the Equinox, how many units did he build, what was the upfront cost for that, how long will it take him to sell enough units to recover his costs and make a tiny margin. would he do that with 20 other designs all at the same time.
The real life fact is that thru-hole assembly is the more viable option for most module manufacturers who can then build as they need rather than have to commit carrying stocks of built modules.
Surface Mount may, occasionally be cheaper in parts but some boutique designs require as-near original parts for older designs and you can't do that with SM.
yes, agree. Would be good for a breakdown

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sutekina bipu-on
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Post by sutekina bipu-on » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Don't really care what the guy thinks of modular or eurorack at all.... i totally skipped over that whole part of it... but i found his VCO looking through Modulargrid, then was curious and ended up on the site and his whole thing about eurorack should be cheap. i definitely like that! :guinness:

Then I noticed he was having a 20% off sale on the site (not affiliated, not even English) and i grabbed a pair of modules for 130 gbp with free shipping to the usa.

Pretty sick prices for some new modules and unfortunately the only demos i could find was a quick one from Rob's own video of it in the 32 voice monster configuration , and then the sub 1 minute Divkid video. But i think the vco sounded nice so i bought it...

I hope its not a 3340 based vco. because there are SO MANY of them coming out and i would love an analog vco that isn't 3340 based, (already have a neutron so i got two!)

post sound demos later


edit: Okay, i finally watched all his videos and i can see where he's coming from. You don't have a lot of low cost options if you're not DIYing and buying your parts in bulk and you're not limiting yourself to used Doepfer or something like that. It did also make me realize several of the cheaper manufacturers making more complex modules are putting out 100% SMT modules, like noise reap who has a lot of amazing stuff under $100, and even stuff like Malekko which is not necessarily cheap packs tons of features and components into super tiny modules. Meanwhile stuff by Ladik etc is low cost per module but can be fairly $ for the functions they do and they tend to have huge PCBs due to cramming tons of thru hole stuff on board. So yeah we will see when I get my Equinox modules in the mail, but i think the guy has a point, just weird to me there aren't more (any!) demos of the modules my themselves. I definitely hope to see more from him though. He mentioned a matrix mixer in the video as a future project and those are all so expensive

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iSapien1956672
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Post by iSapien1956672 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:50 am

They are affordable, sound great, build solid.

From what I've found out is that Rob used to work at GMSN!.

I bought the whole (curent) line for under $600

Fit perfectly in my Intellijel 42hp travel case. (below)

Image

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sutekina bipu-on
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Post by sutekina bipu-on » Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:02 am

I have the VCO and VCA now. They sound great but I think the VCA is the star of the bunch. Compared to my Doepfer VCA, it's a lot more energetic/dynamic sounding. Will have to do more testing with it, but initial patching was all very good with it. It's based on the THAT 2181 and i may be a fool for only having bought one during the sale!

I don't have another CEM 3340 VCO to compare it against, so i'm not sure if it uses those or not, but it tracks very well and is very stable. Nice sound to it. There's a few SOIC-8 chips on it, but i don't know if the 3340 clones come in that package.

Definitely of interest to keep an eye on these personally. The VCO isnt quite as beefy as the Doepfer Standard VCO, but it definitely sounds good. love that VCA though!

My next purchase will probably be another vca and may try the vcf out too.

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iSapien1956672
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Post by iSapien1956672 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:44 am

I got the whole line, but some people were asking about the VCO.

I took some photos of it this morning. It does not appear to use the 3340, unless it's a smaller substitute for the CEM3340.

Image
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sutekina bipu-on
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Post by sutekina bipu-on » Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:38 pm

Lol, i was also trying to avoid having to take my VCO apart. I tried for a little while to read enough of one of the IC's to identify it but gave up. The only 3340 clones I'm aware of come in 16 pin packages.

I actually started wondering if the 555 timer is used for the VCO. It's got that almost-digital sound. I had that thought then went to check the feature list on the Thomas Henry 555 VCO, so it might be plausible. The only things the Thomas Henry seems to offer the Equinox doesn't is the choice between linear or exponential FM (the Equinox just has one FM input) and no sine output from the Equinox. Either way, i dig the sound of the Equinox very much. I always liked the atari punk console sound too though...

iSapien: How are you liking the VCF and the ADSR? I'm figure the ADSR is probably fairly predictable, but curious how the VCF sounds.

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iSapien1956672
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Post by iSapien1956672 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:14 pm

The VCF has a nice throaty squeal and the resonance can pierce.
The ADSR I’m happy with, but I like simple things. The ADSR has an option of coming in Linear or Exponential, I went with Linear based on his suggestion.

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sutekina bipu-on
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Post by sutekina bipu-on » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:28 pm

iSapien1956672 wrote:The VCF has a nice throaty squeal and the resonance can pierce.
The ADSR I’m happy with, but I like simple things. The ADSR has an option of coming in Linear or Exponential, I went with Linear based on his suggestion.
cool, the adsr seems like a nice alternative to other simple designs like the doepfer.

the vca continues to impress, though it's my first THAT VCA. seems like a good setup. i had a vermona twinvcamp and the Equinox is not far off in terms of smoothness and detail, but of course not have the same degree of precision as the vermona

i did notice a just a slightly audible amount of noise when i mess with the knobs on the vco, but its not really noticeable unless you have only the vco patched directly to mixer.

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Post by CoreInside » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:39 am

https://equinoxsynth.com/

they have a 50% off sale
the vco is less than £50 now

amazing really

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Post by cliffemu » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:45 am

I'm not sure what the point is of trying to flood the market with very simple modules. The real draw of eurorack will not be piecing together a basic synth for $300. It's the innovation found in the modules that cannot be found elsewhere in hardware. Even adding more outputs or CV control to a basic function is innovation due to what it allows with patching. For example, the 8hp ADSR. That's a total buzzkill. As soon as the case gets filled up, everyone will be trying to sell these to upgrade to something more interesting. Even the A-140 has more going on, and it's roughly the same price, excluding the current sale. And it's a nice aluminum panel, and made by a legendary company.

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iSapien1956672
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Post by iSapien1956672 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:34 am

I already have all the modules, but might take advantage of the 84hp powered case or the rails during this sale.
:hmm:

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