Rossum Panharmonium Resynthesizer

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starthief
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Post by starthief » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:32 am

bc3 wrote:I wonder if this concept of analyzing the spectral content of an audio signal and driving digital oscillators could also be used to produce control voltages? I do not mean in this module design but another module using the same spectral processing engine to analyze incoming audio and in turn produce varying voltages and even trigger or gates :hmm:
That's the analysis portion of a vocoder. A bank of bandpass filters through envelope follower/slew limiters.

The Doepfer A-129 series had those, though it seemed kind of awkwardly implemented.

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Post by taylor12k » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:38 am

count me in as #11 kyma owner. have had a system for a long time. used the capybara in a lot of my early works, and now a paca for the past few years.. but sadly, i haven't even powered it up in about 2-3 years. not for disliking kyma, more for my waning interest of software synthesis/computer-y stuff.... as go the ebbs and flows of studio interests...

that being said, this Rossum module is extremely exciting for me for exactly the reason kyma is/was...

and now i feel like i need to dust off my Apogee Duet and see if kyma still works (and how i get a firewire connection into my usb3/thunderbolt macs)..


btw: is there any thread here about kyma use? i'm probably pretty behind the times now and SSC's own forum was always a little quiet...

Misk wrote:Also Peripatitis knows, he owns Kyma (there are literally TENS of us!).

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Post by ignatius » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:53 am

kay_k wrote:I was wondering about that freeze gate too so I wrote them. I've received the reply that this is totally possible by sending 5V to blur will result in infinite blur which is exactly the same as freeze.

(btw. Marco replied in a couple of minutes to my question and immediately to my follow up mail, that is good support IMO)
cool. thanks. :yay: :nana:

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Post by damase » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:39 pm

wow, looks so cool. cant wait to hear it in action although im quite sure i need this

stereo is awesome... i imagine its analyzing each side separately to maintain stereo images...? if so, very nice implementation there

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Misk
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Post by Misk » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:41 pm

bc3 wrote:I wonder if this concept of analyzing the spectral content of an audio signal and driving digital oscillators could also be used to produce control voltages? I do not mean in this module design but another module using the same spectral processing engine to analyze incoming audio and in turn produce varying voltages and even trigger or gates :hmm:
totally could. and it would be awesome. instead of oscillators it could be a bank of 32 envelope followers. I'd buy that for a ...lotta dollars.

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brandonlogic
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Post by brandonlogic » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:52 pm

Having a hard time imaging what this might sound like..
any audio examples of those vst's mentioned doing similar things?
looking forward to hearing demos.

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Post by WisdomWriter » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:15 pm

pretty interesting concept, so its like a "real time" sampler. takes the input and creates "wavetables".

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Post by desolationjones » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:19 pm

Here's a good video of Benn The Flashbulb manually performing spectral decomposition then additive resynthesis ala Panharmonium. Unfortunately 33 operators will never sound "perfect" but it should be awesome for stealing the souls of other sounds :D
[video][/video]

Funch

Post by Funch » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:27 pm

brandonlogic wrote:Having a hard time imaging what this might sound like..
any audio examples of those vst's mentioned doing similar things?
looking forward to hearing demos.
there is a guitar pedal by Hologram called infinite Jets that does dsp resynthesis.


https://hologramelectronics.com/infinite-jets/

" Infinite Jets tracks the dynamics of your playing, samples individual notes and chords, and then reinterprets them as new sounds using two independent channels of infinite sustain. It offers 4 separate sampling effects in one: Blur, Synth, Glitch, and Swell."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... qd7p0lSDl8

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Post by starthief » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:56 pm

desolationjones wrote:Unfortunately 33 operators will never sound "perfect" but it should be awesome for stealing the souls of other sounds :D
As with many things, the imperfection is probably what makes it cool :cloud:

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Post by gummyboy » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:26 pm

wonder how it will sounds...

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Post by Leverkusen » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:46 pm

gummyboy wrote:wonder how it will sounds...
...hm, somewhere between a cello and a melodica, I guess?

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Post by Funch » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:07 pm

Misk wrote:
bc3 wrote:I wonder if this concept of analyzing the spectral content of an audio signal and driving digital oscillators could also be used to produce control voltages? I do not mean in this module design but another module using the same spectral processing engine to analyze incoming audio and in turn produce varying voltages and even trigger or gates :hmm:
totally could. and it would be awesome. instead of oscillators it could be a bank of 32 envelope followers. I'd buy that for a ...lotta dollars.
this is what the sonicsmith ACO (Audio Controlled Oscillator) does, Except the incoming audio triggers the internal analog osc (digital control freq analysis of the input fundamental audio pitch with the aid of a hpf then frequency-dependent auto adjusting low pass filter).

Then Outputs cv for the envelope follower, 1 volt per octave pitch and gate signals.

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Post by coolshirtdotjpg » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:38 pm

WisdomWriter wrote:pretty interesting concept, so its like a "real time" sampler. takes the input and creates "wavetables".
No, that would be something like the phonogene.

What this does, is an FFT analysis and resynthesis, which allows you to perform manipulations in the frequency domain. In essence, it analyses the dominant frequencies in a time window, and recreates them using waveforms of the same pitch.

Think of a vocoder with 33 bands, which can then be repitched up and down, moved closer together, or farther apart, etc. all in real time.

My telharfauxnium firmware for the radio music is a little like this, except that it doesn't perform the analysis portion, so you just have to manipulate the sine waves that I give you. Listen to demos of the audio damage spectre and the telharfauxnium, combine them, add control of the waveshapes and feedback, then imagine that done by someone who can actually code.
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Post by Misk » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:24 pm

ignatius wrote:
thetwlo wrote:
Misk wrote:man i've been loving everything coming from RE lately and this is dope and all, but nothing has ever held a candle to Kyma when it comes to real-time spectral resynthesis.
Well, it will sound different. With different control possibilities. Weird comparison, Symbolic Sound doesn't offer modules.
"abandon logic all ye who enter here"
Woah Woah Woah guys, I didn't know I had to be all "logical" up in here :hail:

not about symbolic sound making modules or not — i'm (fucking obviously) comparing it to one of very few similar tools that do the same thing. makes more sense to compare a cordless circular saw to a table saw than it does to compare it to a cordless drill...

There are plenty of spectral resynth tools, but lets be honest — most of them have sucked — so maybe it's "logical" for me to be a little wary of any product offering what has so often in the past been an empty promise.

Rossum has consistently killed it though so i'm sure this will be dope. Don't know how survived without my control forge.

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Post by Misk » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:33 pm

FFT takes a snapshot of amplitude, frequency, and phase. 32 partials is enough to accurately re-create most spectra — especially when those partials can be more than just sine waves — as is the case here.

edit: failing at embedding a video but here's a good explanation:

Analyze That

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Post by starthief » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:01 pm

Speculation on the Mutable forum is that it's not FFT, but a bank of bandpass filters.

That makes sense, given that the front panel has controls for the center frequency and bandwidth for the analyzer.

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Post by coolshirtdotjpg » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:10 pm

starthief wrote:Speculation on the Mutable forum is that it's not FFT, but a bank of bandpass filters.

That makes sense, given that the front panel has controls for the center frequency and bandwidth for the analyzer.
That would also make sense, either one could be made to function similarly, or not...

Could be a BP filter with adjustable q, before FFT, but it would make just as much to use a filter bank, depending on what they want to do. Would definitely make some sense for real time processing.
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Post by electricanada » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:48 pm

dooj88 wrote:
starthief wrote: Now that I'm fully awake, I feel I should point out that these aren't real time, but analyze a saved sample file and build spectral envelopes...

Camel Audio Alchemy, though unfortunately the developer went under and the plug-in was bought by Apple and is Mac-only (if it's even still available).
damn, good call. i've got that still running on my first gen ipad. haven't messed with it for a few years, but i seem to remember it mostly sounding like morphing between various aspects of filter settings. i'll have to look at it again.
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Post by JES » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:55 pm

Check out timefreezer. I think it uses phase vocoding. Not sure 33 bands is enough for the Rossum to do it but I look forward to finding out.
starthief wrote:
AKaudio wrote:
starthief wrote:Wow! There have been a couple of VST synthesizers that can do this, but I'm really eager to hear this particular take on it.
Would love to check these out, you have names?
Now that I'm fully awake, I feel I should point out that these aren't real time, but analyze a saved sample file and build spectral envelopes...

Camel Audio Alchemy, though unfortunately the developer went under and the plug-in was bought by Apple and is Mac-only (if it's even still available).

DiscoDSP Vertigo is the other one I can think of offhand.
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Post by Knowix » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:26 am

starthief wrote:
Camel Audio Alchemy, though unfortunately the developer went under and the plug-in was bought by Apple and is Mac-only (if it's even still available).
Went under - all the way to the bank. They were about to release Alchemy 2 when Apple made him an offer no sane person would refuse. And an NDA that made him practically disappear from the face of the earth. I have Alchemy 2 but it's never sparked joy in my hands (to misuse a current turn of phrase :hihi: ). Too clean sounding or something.

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Post by Cortega » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:53 am

brandonlogic wrote:Having a hard time imaging what this might sound like..
any audio examples of those vst's mentioned doing similar things?
looking forward to hearing demos.
the VST VirSyn Cube does resynthese

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Post by 3hands » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:42 am

Oh I’m very excited about this. Was considering Clouds, but will hold off for a few months and see what comes of this..
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Post by coolshirtdotjpg » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:50 pm

3hands wrote:Oh I’m very excited about this. Was considering Clouds, but will hold off for a few months and see what comes of this..
Why do people keep comparing this to clouds? It's like comparing a VCF to a VCA.
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Post by CaneMan » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:15 pm

Seriously tempted to sell my Morpheus for this module when it comes out. I'm always looking for a new module to play my violin through.

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