MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

1010music Blackbox - Compact Sampling Studio
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear  
Author 1010music Blackbox - Compact Sampling Studio
DruidTek
1010music announced their new product "Blackbox" at SynthPlex today. It's a standalone tabletop unit that combines the Toolbox sequencer and Bitbox sampler firmwares, with stereo Reverb & Delay and some additional features, such as 128 step sequences, per cell filtering, a Song mode, touchscreen keyboard and mixer page. It's USB powered, so if you have a power bank you can make music anywhere. The audio I/O's are all stereo 3.5mm TRS, so you have to use splitter cables with it. I've been beta testing this for a couple of months and I have to say it's pretty awesome. The price is $599USD.

Stay tuned for more demos!

https://1010music.com/product/blackbox









taylor12k
nice to see a demo for this, very intrigued... but i hope it's capable of less "sequenced" and rhythmic use... such as:

- can you trigger samples to just play and loop indefinitely without having to "sequence" them?

- can different samples be different lengths not quantized to any bars or rhythmic structure?

- if the first question above is true, how many samples can you play at the same time? (ie: what's the voice polyphony of the unit?)

maybe the make of the above video knows?

thanks!
DruidTek
taylor12k wrote:
nice to see a demo for this, very intrigued... but i hope it's capable of less "sequenced" and rhythmic use... such as:

- can you trigger samples to just play and loop indefinitely without having to "sequence" them?


Yes, Clip mode is the one to use for loops and when loop mode is on and a sample is triggered, it will continue to loop indefinitely.

Quote:
- can different samples be different lengths not quantized to any bars or rhythmic structure?


Yes, if you turn off the quantize settings, samples run in a freeform manner.

Quote:
- if the first question above is true, how many samples can you play at the same time? (ie: what's the voice polyphony of the unit?)


Depending on the mode, each of the 16 cells can have up to 4 voices. I haven't tried maxing out the polyphony yet, but it's a more powerful processor than the series 1&2 modules, so it's quite a lot.
taylor12k
thanks! all great answers..

one other question... in CLIP mode, can you trigger a sample with a key? so you can transpose the loop down (varispeed style, not stretched or pitch corrected)... and/or does the pitch parameter affect both speed and pitch simultaneously (i hope it does) old-school style, varipseed, tape, etc.. ie: no stretching...

DruidTek wrote:
taylor12k wrote:
nice to see a demo for this, very intrigued... but i hope it's capable of less "sequenced" and rhythmic use... such as:

- can you trigger samples to just play and loop indefinitely without having to "sequence" them?


Yes, Clip mode is the one to use for loops and when loop mode is on and a sample is triggered, it will continue to loop indefinitely.

Quote:
- can different samples be different lengths not quantized to any bars or rhythmic structure?


Yes, if you turn off the quantize settings, samples run in a freeform manner.

Quote:
- if the first question above is true, how many samples can you play at the same time? (ie: what's the voice polyphony of the unit?)


Depending on the mode, each of the 16 cells can have up to 4 voices. I haven't tried maxing out the polyphony yet, but it's a more powerful processor than the series 1&2 modules, so it's quite a lot.
DruidTek
taylor12k wrote:

one other question... in CLIP mode, can you trigger a sample with a key? so you can transpose the loop down (varispeed style, not stretched or pitch corrected)... and/or does the pitch parameter affect both speed and pitch simultaneously (i hope it does) old-school style, varipseed, tape, etc.. ie: no stretching...


Doesn't Varispeed keep the pitch the same but let you change the tempo? I know that's how the old Roland units used to work. Clip Mode works this way, but you can't go more than a few semitones in either direction before it starts to sound weird. The Slicer mode is much more practical for doing that kind of thing. Sample mode behaves in the traditional way, where going up in pitch makes it play back faster, and going down makes it slower.
taylor12k
no, varispeed is the "traditional" style of pitch shift.. the term taken from tape machines... and as simple as playing a lower (or higher) key on a traditional sampler... pitch and speed shift together.

ie: lower = slower

sounds like "sample mode" is the one I'm after, but, is one able to just fire off loops and have them play indefinitely in that mode? (like you said was possible in CLIP mode)

(sorry for the super specific questions!)



DruidTek wrote:
taylor12k wrote:

one other question... in CLIP mode, can you trigger a sample with a key? so you can transpose the loop down (varispeed style, not stretched or pitch corrected)... and/or does the pitch parameter affect both speed and pitch simultaneously (i hope it does) old-school style, varipseed, tape, etc.. ie: no stretching...


Doesn't Varispeed keep the pitch the same but let you change the tempo? I know that's how the old Roland units used to work. Clip Mode works this way, but you can't go more than a few semitones in either direction before it starts to sound weird. The Slicer mode is much more practical for doing that kind of thing. Sample mode behaves in the traditional way, where going up in pitch makes it play back faster, and going down makes it slower.
DruidTek
Sorry, I was confusing it with "VariPhrase". Yes, you can use Sample mode, set the Loop Mode to Forward and the Release time to 100% and you're good to go! thumbs up
borututu f.
Looks nice, although I'm not a fan of touchscreens at all. I guess you can launch clips with a MIDI controller like the one on the picture, but can other things like clearing a pattern or adjusting slice points of a sample also be edited via MIDI?

Also how does the sequencer compare to the one of a MPC? On the page about the Toolbox module it says the you can edit "note duration for all events" - independently for each note or all at once?
chorus7
DruidTek what effects does it have besides delay and reverb? How many effects per clip? Is the filter a multi mode?

Looks amazing... makes me want to sell my MPC hmmm.....

Many thanks...
DruidTek
borututu f. wrote:
Looks nice, although I'm not a fan of touchscreens at all. I guess you can launch clips with a MIDI controller like the one on the picture, but can other things like clearing a pattern or adjusting slice points of a sample also be edited via MIDI?

Also how does the sequencer compare to the one of a MPC? On the page about the Toolbox module it says the you can edit "note duration for all events" - independently for each note or all at once?


All of those parameters can only be accessed via the touchscreen at this stage. It's common for people who aren't fans of them to be pleasantly surprised when actually using them in person, though. Yes, the individual note lengths can be adjusted independently. Each of the 16 sequencers can have a different step length.

chorus7 wrote:
what effects does it have besides delay and reverb? How many effects per clip? Is the filter a multi mode?

Looks amazing... makes me want to sell my MPC


There's only Delay and Reverb, and they are assigned on the output page, so only one effect per cell. The Filter is a basic Low Pass/High Pass, -100 to 0 is the LP and 0 - 100 is the HP. I wouldn't be in a rush to sell your MPC just yet. 1010music's modus operandi is to start off with a rather basic firmware and develop it over time, based on requests and user feedback, so there's quite a lot of features that are lacking in comparison to a MPC.
taylor12k
very very happy to hear it has a high pass filter.... is there resonance?

any LFO or internal modulation of loop/slice/start parameters?
DruidTek
No resonance on the filter but it's quite steep, so it's useful as a Low Cut/Hi Cut. There are modulation slots for Level, Pitch, Start, Length, Loop Start, Loop End, Slice and Slice Seq, and the modulation sources so far are: Trigger, Velocity, Pitch, Mod Wheel, MIDI Volume and MIDI Pan. No external modulation via CV yet, but here's a quote from Aaron on the 1010music forum:

Quote:
Regarding CV, blackbox does have DC-coupled inputs and outputs. This opens the door for CV functions at a later date. Right now, it is is capable of CV sampling and playback.


Just to clarify, I'm not the developer or an employee of 1010music, just a beta-tester and user of their products.
geremyf
Any notion of bit or sample rate reduction? I think this looks pretty neat. I think I would jump with the ability to go lo-fi, and maybe some added, sync-able LFOs per channel...or at least the ability to record (or p-lock) manual modulation of the dials per step. I'm not looking for something crazy fancy, but I would like to LFO into sample pitch occasionally.

Also, it would be really great to be able to sample itself. I'm getting that we can do with with a cable, but maybe on the record screen adding 'internal' would be useful.
chorus7
DruidTek many thanks for answering all these questions we're not worthy

One more if you don’t mind...

Can you cue mix with it? ie send signal to headphone out instead of main outs? So to audition before introducing to main outs...
anselmi
stereo sample playback?

I mean: to load stereo samples and play them in stereo, not L/R panning of mono samples
DruidTek
chorus7 wrote:
DruidTek many thanks for answering all these questions we're not worthy

One more if you don’t mind...

Can you cue mix with it? ie send signal to headphone out instead of main outs? So to audition before introducing to main outs...


No trouble at all.. Yes, the headphone output monitors all of the outputs, so you could use output 1 as your main output, and set the cell you're cueing to output 2 or 3 and monitor it through the headphones, then change it back to output 1 when you want to introduce it to the main mix

anselmi wrote:
stereo sample playback?

I mean: to load stereo samples and play them in stereo, not L/R panning of mono samples


Yes, the audio engine is stereo.
DruidTek
geremyf wrote:
Any notion of bit or sample rate reduction? I think this looks pretty neat. I think I would jump with the ability to go lo-fi, and maybe some added, sync-able LFOs per channel...or at least the ability to record (or p-lock) manual modulation of the dials per step. I'm not looking for something crazy fancy, but I would like to LFO into sample pitch occasionally.

Also, it would be really great to be able to sample itself. I'm getting that we can do with with a cable, but maybe on the record screen adding 'internal' would be useful.


I'll let Aaron chime in and answer those questions. I agree some LFO's and internal resampling would be great additions.
1010music
DruidTek wrote:
geremyf wrote:
Any notion of bit or sample rate reduction? I think this looks pretty neat. I think I would jump with the ability to go lo-fi, and maybe some added, sync-able LFOs per channel...or at least the ability to record (or p-lock) manual modulation of the dials per step. I'm not looking for something crazy fancy, but I would like to LFO into sample pitch occasionally.

Also, it would be really great to be able to sample itself. I'm getting that we can do with with a cable, but maybe on the record screen adding 'internal' would be useful.


I'll let Aaron chime in and answer those questions. I agree some LFO's and internal resampling would be great additions.


DruikTek, thanks for all the answers above.

Resampling is a common request so far. I have also heard a fair number of requests for some kind of automation and internal modulators. Bitcrushing and sampling mangling has come up-but not nearly as much.

We appreciate all of the questions, comments, and suggestions. This is a new category for all and we look forward to improving the firmware over time.
DruidTek
My pleasure Aaron! Congratulations on the release and thanks for all of your hard work on this. I’m sure it was a massive undertaking! I have a feeling this unit may be quite popular. nanners
anselmi
1010music wrote:
We appreciate all of the questions, comments, and suggestions. This is a new category for all and we look forward to improving the firmware over time.


great product! will fit a lot of rigs...mine for sure

I don´t think I would use the sequencer since I have a Digitakt and the Blackbox seems to be the perfect expander for it

the stereo operation is a must, I really need this and it´s a strong point since the Digitakt is all the way mono samples

wishlist:

1. resonant LP/HP filter in the way of the OP-Z one (LP counterclockwise, HP clockwise)

2. filter EG

3. LFO (better x2)

4. more fx
shellfritsch
Will you be able to easily map most parameters to midi cc controllers?
anselmi
shellfritsch wrote:
Will you be able to easily map most parameters to midi cc controllers?


thumbs up


"performance" preset list of 20

option for power on in the last preset that you was worked on

ASCII keyboard conpatibility for text enter (samples and projects names, etc)

support for USB hubs so you can plug more than 1 controller at the same time (and 1 ASCII keyboard too)
Muse FTW
This looks really impressive for a standalone box. I'm usually wary of touch screens on instruments but I'm still interested despite that.
tiger001
what are the audio engine specifications?

KHZ?
bitdepth?

is it capable to locking onto MIDI clock and/or MTC ?
(as a slave)
VanEck
is there any way to do "ableton" style clip launching with this? that is something my pioneer toraiz lacks... if black box can do it, i think it would be the perfect companion.
lmgrovllum
Really into this tiny form factor and capabilities. Is there any sort of mailing list to get an alert when it becomes available again?
1010music
anselmi wrote:

the stereo operation is a must, I really need this and it´s a strong point since the Digitakt is all the way mono samples

wishlist:

1. resonant LP/HP filter in the way of the OP-Z one (LP counterclockwise, HP clockwise)
...


We agree. Stereo is essential. It is already in the blackbox (and bitbox).

Blackbox also has an LP/HP filter per voice. Please know that resonance, modulation, and enveloping is not currently available.
1010music
tiger001 wrote:
what are the audio engine specifications?

KHZ?
bitdepth?

is it capable to locking onto MIDI clock and/or MTC ?
(as a slave)


The engine is running at 48KHz and 24-bit. Blackbox sends and receives MIDI clock--but not MTC.
1010music
VanEck wrote:
is there any way to do "ableton" style clip launching with this?


The clip launching in blackbox is similar to bitbox. You can time stretch and quantize the starting and stopping times. There is also a toggle mode. Having an internal sequencer makes controlling the tempo much easier.
RichMakeGame
can you resample, either internally (eg, mix down several loops to one new loop) or externally, eg audio out > fx/pedals etc > audio in ?

are there options for reduced sampling bit rate/depth?

thanks
1010music
RichMakeGame wrote:
can you resample, either internally (eg, mix down several loops to one new loop) or externally, eg audio out > fx/pedals etc > audio in ?

are there options for reduced sampling bit rate/depth?

thanks


You can resample externally with a patch cable. At present, there are no options for bit reduction or sample rate reduction.
VanEck
hey there, thanks for the quick response. i'm not too familiar with how the clip launching works in bitbox. but essentially i am looking for something that i can configure a bunch of cells to be in a 'group", and when 1 of those cells is playing, the others in that group won't be. and then i activate another pad in the group, and it will start playing at a quantized interval and the other will stop at that same interval, like you can do when performing with ableton. so you can perform a song by triggering loops without overlap. is this possible with blackbox? i know you can trigger cells at quantized times... but not sure if you can have them configured in groups to stop/start like that so only 1 is going at a time.
1010music
VanEck wrote:
... i am looking for something that i can configure a bunch of cells to be in a 'group", and when 1 of those cells is playing, the others in that group won't be. and then i activate another pad in the group, and it will start playing at a quantized interval and the other will stop at that same interval, like you can do when performing with ableton.


Blackbox can do this. There are 4 groups you can assign to any number of pads and use quantization. Only one sample in each group can play at the same time.
VanEck
1010music wrote:
VanEck wrote:
... i am looking for something that i can configure a bunch of cells to be in a 'group", and when 1 of those cells is playing, the others in that group won't be. and then i activate another pad in the group, and it will start playing at a quantized interval and the other will stop at that same interval, like you can do when performing with ableton.


Blackbox can do this. There are 4 groups you can assign to any number of pads and use quantization. Only one sample in each group can play at the same time.


awesome. sounds exactly what i've been looking for to pair with my toraiz.
RickKleffel
For the Eurorack version, there's a measly-weasely 64 MB sample RAM with the promise of fast loading from SD card (?).

That's pretty much unusable and not consistent with "4 hours of recording".

I'm interested in something that gives me access to lots of different environmental recordings (long!) and speech/interview samples. Can I load up an hour of variety recordings and have them at my fingertips? 16 pads or a dozen or whatever per screens is nearly acceptable so long as I can pop between screens easily.

the build looks nice. But can it hoe the row?
1010music
RickKleffel wrote:
For the Eurorack version, there's a measly-weasely 64 MB sample RAM with the promise of fast loading from SD card (?).

That's pretty much unusable and not consistent with "4 hours of recording".

I'm interested in something that gives me access to lots of different environmental recordings (long!) and speech/interview samples. Can I load up an hour of variety recordings and have them at my fingertips? 16 pads or a dozen or whatever per screens is nearly acceptable so long as I can pop between screens easily.

the build looks nice. But can it hoe the row?


You have some very old school assumptions about samplers. In the beginning, samplers loaded all the samples into RAM and used them from there. This had two important characteristics: There was a hard limit on sample time based on the RAM size. Second, you had to wait for the entire sample set to load before you could play it.

Modern computer samplers, including blackbox and bitbox, are fast enough to load the RAM on the fly so you can play much longer samples. In our tests, blackbox can play up to 7 files of unlimited length at the same time. You can create presets with 16 very long samples, there will just be some limits to how many can play at once.
mokomo
Is there any restriction to how much you can record/sample into the blackbox, as distinct from playing loaded files?
elektrokick
I really like this and definitely see the appeal as it is now. It would be fantastic if, in the future, the outputs could be configured to send cv/gate data from the sequencer. I definitely wouldn't mind more effects either (bitcrushing/reduction, distortion, compressor with editable parameters etc). Some internal modulation options would be appreciated as well.

In its current state, it possible to pass two incoming mono signals through the inputs and add them to the mix with separate effect sends?
1010music
mokomo wrote:
Is there any restriction to how much you can record/sample into the blackbox, as distinct from playing loaded files?


The recording can be many hours in length. The only real limit is the 4GB size constraint on the WAV format
1010music
elektrokick wrote:
I really like this and definitely see the appeal as it is now. It would be fantastic if, in the future, the outputs could be configured to send cv/gate data from the sequencer. I definitely wouldn't mind more effects either (bitcrushing/reduction, distortion, compressor with editable parameters etc). Some internal modulation options would be appreciated as well.

In its current state, it possible to pass two incoming mono signals through the inputs and add them to the mix with separate effect sends?


There is always room for improvement. In its current state, blackbox can monitor the input but not add effects. Thanks for the suggestions.
OnTheRocks
Will the Blackbox export to an Ableton Set like the Bitbox does?
Paranormal Patroler
Bump. This was, for me, one of the highlights of SB19. I'm not usually one to get interested in samplers, but this one definitely takes the cake. Really want to try one out in person.
VanEck
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Bump. This was, for me, one of the highlights of SB19. I'm not usually one to get interested in samplers, but this one definitely takes the cake. Really want to try one out in person.


same. i held off on the pre-release units, patiently waiting for the production units to be available. fingers crossed that will be soon... keeping a spot open on my desk just for one of these... maybe two.
DruidTek
New review and workflow tutorial by Loopop on YouTube.



anselmi
I really dig this thing

I just NEED more modulation sources and resonance for the filter...maybe 1 simple AD envelope for the filter and 1 assignable LFO? seriously, i just don't get it
SOPiiAC
Wow, inputs and outputs are DC coupled?! Sampling and sequencing cv modulation in?!
ugokcen
This is an impressive piece of kit applause Too bad I don’t need it sad banana

Considering 1010music’s philosophy of building different “boxes” on the same platform, may I suggest another product idea? How about a multi-timbral polyphonic sampler/synthesizer like the old Emulators and the Akais? It looks like this thing can already do 16 channels of midi and has 64 notes of polyphony and can read direct from disk so that shouldn’t be a problem hardware-wise. All it needs is new firmware for zones, layers, and dynamic voice allocation. And more modulation options preferably.

Anyway, just wanted to throw the idea out there, this is not a criticism of any kind. Blackbox beats Digitakt on every front in my opinion, but not everybody needs an integrated midi sequencer and sampler. I’ve been wanting to get away from the computer for a while and modular has been a big part of that project, but despite all the advances in microprocessors there’s still no hardware product out there that can replace the Sampler in Ableton or the ESX24 in Logic.
tenembre
Looks great. From looking at the manual and watching the Loopop video, I have a few suggestions:

- a zero crossing detector for loop points (move cursor to nearest zero point) to help prevent clicks. Crossfade looping, for the same reason.

- Normalization options for samples - being able to normalize a new sample is kind of a must.

- An option to reduce max signal out level to +4 or -10 standards.

- MTS (midi tuning standard) file support, with tunings stored on the card and applied on a per-pad basis. Without this the polyphonic feature is useless for those of us who use non-standard tunings. There aren't any modern hardware samplers that support alternate tunings!
tenembre
A question - what devices can be used via the host port?

- A usb keyboard, for naming stuff?

- A thumb drive or card reader for transferring samples?
roger
It seems to have all the features I want from a sampler, but I just cant find fun in touch interfaces. Put this box into a mpc 2000xl case with lots of buttons and not so many blinky lights and I'm in. I'd love to have som more tactile interface options.
tenembre
roger wrote:
It seems to have all the features I want from a sampler, but I just cant find fun in touch interfaces. Put this box into a mpc 2000xl case with lots of buttons and not so many blinky lights and I'm in. I'd love to have som more tactile interface options.


I have no desire whatsoever for it to be any larger, let alone the size of an MPC.

With more CC mappings in the OS, it will be easy enough to drive it from something more tactile. It's got a USB host port for controllers to plug right into it.
roger
tenembre wrote:
I have no desire whatsoever for it to be any larger, let alone the size of an MPC.

With more CC mappings in the OS, it will be easy enough to drive it from something more tactile. It's got a USB host port for controllers to plug right into it.


I realize I'm a minority here, but using multiple controller and such clutters my workspace way too much for me to be comfortable. also, all these blinking lights are just not up my alley. This is fun!
I like clicky buttons, large sized machines and enough space to comfortably rest my hands on them.
DruidTek
The more I use this device, the more I'm digging it!

Being able to program 16 separate sequences into each of the sequencer cells (which actually gives you 256) and by creating custom .wav files for the Slicer with 64 one-shots in them, the possibilities are endless!

The official release is early next week, but here's a sneak peak at the demo video I made for it, using it on the public transport here in Melbourne, and back at my studio with some electronic drum triggers and a friend of mine on guitar synth.



Also, here's a brief run-through of the preset I used in the demo.

SOPiiAC
Thanks for posting those! I'm so hyped for this! screaming goo yo
jabberwalky
Really robust little box. I would definitely need to use a 16 pad controller for better live use. I think it's a bit lacking in the midi dept though, which is what I'm more interested in. Seems to lack a midi program change if I'm not missing something.
acidbob
Very very cool, and nice to see that it's not restricted to eurorack.
I know that an ordinary midi din socket takes up precious space but I would have really loved to see this, it might sound silly but this is what I somehow got into my mind what separates pro studio equipment. I like the fact that its stereo unlike many of the Elektron machines, so it would pair quite well with something like that. No brainer really
DruidTek
jabberwalky wrote:
Really robust little box. I would definitely need to use a 16 pad controller for better live use. I think it's a bit lacking in the midi dept though, which is what I'm more interested in. Seems to lack a midi program change if I'm not missing something.


It's definitely much nicer using it with dedicated controllers, although the screen is quite responsive and very handy when you are just using it by itself.
I can confirm the presets can be switched via MIDI program change.
landmax
Unless I have missed it in the feature set, i can't see that the sequencer has any swing/shuffle/groove function. If so this seems quite a glaring omission given virtually every sequencer on the market has one.
DruidTek
landmax wrote:
Unless I have missed it in the feature set, i can't see that the sequencer has any swing/shuffle/groove function. If so this seems quite a glaring omission given virtually every sequencer on the market has one.


Yes, it has a Swing function! It's the % at the top of the Song page. 50% is straight time. You can adjust it with the top right encoder.


landmax
DruidTek wrote:
landmax wrote:
Unless I have missed it in the feature set, i can't see that the sequencer has any swing/shuffle/groove function. If so this seems quite a glaring omission given virtually every sequencer on the market has one.


Yes, it has a Swing function! It's the % at the top of the Song page. 50% is straight time. You can adjust it with the top right encoder.




Ah I missed that, great thanks. Thought it was strange to not have it.

Was definitely something that would have put me off so ready to jump on one now.
bmot
I love how, with every feature request or “does it have...x” question, the answer always seems to be “yes, it’s got that already!”. Looking like a really great machine. I just haven’t gelled with my Korg Electribe 2 sampler (despite really enjoying the ESX for several years). So this ones on my radar for sure. Thanks for the demos and information
anselmi
bmot wrote:
I just haven’t gelled with my Korg Electribe 2 sampler (despite really enjoying the ESX for several years)


so sad they didn´t made the new electribes worth of the esx love
SOPiiAC
Got one on the way! It's peanut butter jelly time!
Panason
The sequencing looks extremely simplistic and the screen too small. I'd think about an offline iPad + MIDI controller instead.
DruidTek
Panason wrote:
The sequencing looks extremely simplistic


There's no doubt that an iPad has a much bigger screen and is therefore easier to edit, but each of blackbox's sequencer cells can hold 16 x 128 step sequences, so there's actually 256 sequences in the box! You can zoom in with touch gestures and use the encoders to select a note and change the its pitch and length. You can also go up 1/64th resolution to program beat displacement if you require, so I wouldn't say it's extremely simplistic. Some randomisation and euclidean modes would be welcome additions to the firmware though.
evilspock
Panason wrote:
The sequencing looks extremely simplistic and the screen too small. I'd think about an offline iPad + MIDI controller instead.


Look, I love my iPad mini 2 to death, but the fact of the matter is, it doesn't have a built-in SD card slot, knobs and buttons, MIDI in and out jacks, analog clock in and out jacks, multiple audio in and out jacks. If you're okay with another hardware device dangling off of your iPad with those features via a USB cable, via a kludge USB camera adapter dongle, great!

For me, this is the most exciting piece of gear I've seen in quite a while and a no-brainer. A 5"x5" widget that can be the heart of my hardware studio, and I can throw it in my backpack when I'm on the go. Sold
pustule
I just learned about this device, and it sounds very exciting. I'm hoping I can finally ditch my SP404, which has been annoying me more and more as time goes on...

I couldn't find answers to a few questions, maybe someone here can help me out..

1) Many of my samples are longer (around 20 min each) will this unit have trouble looping 16 stereo samples that are each around 20 min in length simultaneously?

2) Will it import both wav and aiff audio?

3) When importing samples, what if some samples are 16bit and others 24bit? Does it care?

4) Are their plans to add a feature to try and minimize or remove clicks in loops?

5) Is there a way to manually fade or automate fade in/fade out of longer samples during playback?

6) Can you automate panning of a mono sample?

Really excited that this unit handles stereo loops and different loop lengths simultaneously!
1040df
I don't have mine in hand yet (in the mail). However I believe I can answer your questions.

1. I believe it is by sample size. The limit being 4gb max
2. no just .wav
3. It doesn't care
4. I read they added it to future updates. When exactly, I wouldn't know.
5. there is a ADSR. However I believe it is fairly basic
6. I believe you can
pustule
1040df wrote:
I don't have mine in hand yet (in the mail). However I believe I can answer your questions.

1. I believe it is by sample size. The limit being 4gb max

5. there is a ADSR. However I believe it is fairly basic


Thanks for the reply! Very exciting if all that works as expected. This is making me really want to grab one screaming goo yo

I know you don't have it in hand yet, so maybe you don't have an answer, but I have a few more questions based on your answers above:

have you heard if playing all 16 stereo loops (long ones, 20 min+) will make the unit stutter or react slower, as apposed to playing 16 short mono loops which I assume would be easier for its processor to handle?

Regarding the fading of loops -- Thats great that it has an ADSR. I wonder if it'll achieve exactly what i'm hoping for though... If I were to play some long samples, i'm hoping for the ability to keep them playing and fade various samples in and out of the mix without needing to restart the samples from the beginning, like using some sort of virtual fader on a mixer. It'd be extra cool if you could then automate these fades throughout the duration of the sample.

I'm not that crazy about touch screen devices, so i'm trying to figure out how much of the workflow might be able to be controlled by some sort of midi device with physical faders/pads.

One last question, can the brightness of the touch screen display be adjusted so it's not ultra bright during a gig?
DruidTek
I think the audio engine can only handle streaming about 4-6 very long samples at once, but you can trigger one-shots in the other 12 cells at the same time.
The MIX page has muting and is perfect for doing crossfades and panning, etc. Brightness control is on the TOOLS page
pustule
DruidTek wrote:
I think the audio engine can only handle streaming about 4-6 very long samples at once, but you can trigger one-shots in the other 12 cells at the same time.


Thanks for the info!
What happens to the unit when you play too many long loops at the same time? Does it lock up and cause audio dropouts?
anselmi
DruidTek wrote:
The MIX page has muting and is perfect for doing crossfades and panning, etc


are the MIX page parameters MIDI controllable?
DruidTek
pustule wrote:

Thanks for the info!
What happens to the unit when you play too many long loops at the same time? Does it lock up and cause audio dropouts?


Clicking and popping mostly.

anselmi wrote:
are the MIX page parameters MIDI controllable?


Yes, the Volume and Pan of the cells can be modulated via MIDI on their respective channels.
pustule
DruidTek wrote:
pustule wrote:

Thanks for the info!
What happens to the unit when you play too many long loops at the same time? Does it lock up and cause audio dropouts?


Clicking and popping mostly.


Hmm... clicking kind of worries me as i'd intend to use it live at gigs...

I know they don't want to limit people from doing things, but for those who want to be sure not to have clicking and popping in the mix, it'd be nice to have a feature to toggle on a "safe mode" that ensures that it won't let you play a sample that'll overwork the processor and make it click.

Another question... I don't know much about working with midi, but would a device like the 16n Midi controller be suitable to control the volume of all 16 samples?

Do you need to be on the "mix" screen of the Blackbox in order to control the volume with midi, or will volume control work from any screen if the MIDI controller is mapped to cell/pad volume?

Is it possible to have a pad start playing when tapped at zero volume until you manually fade the volume up in the mix?

Sorry for all the questions!
h4ndcrafted
I’m considering dropping on this ,needs to have filter EG though , I really miss that on my sp16.
Shakespeare
So has anyone had this show up in their studio yet? Would love to hear more first-hand impressions.
blipson
Shakespeare wrote:
So has anyone had this show up in their studio yet? Would love to hear more first-hand impressions.

My quick impression is that I like the tactile quality of it, which you might not expect, given the touchscreen. But the mix of touchscreen, buttons, and knobs does have a nice feel when you hold this very portable device in your hands to operate it solo.
High V3locity
So I have a question. From my understanding it has 16 separate sequencers. Dose this mean I could use this to sequence up to 16 different midi devices with the midi out?
SOPiiAC
High V3locity wrote:
So I have a question. From my understanding it has 16 separate sequencers. Dose this mean I could use this to sequence up to 16 different midi devices with the midi out?


Indeed. I'd not recommend chaining 16 devices all in a row but this would work beautifully with some kind of midi router. The other thing to keep in mind is there is no sequencing of anything other than notes at this time.
High V3locity
SOPiiAC wrote:
High V3locity wrote:
So I have a question. From my understanding it has 16 separate sequencers. Dose this mean I could use this to sequence up to 16 different midi devices with the midi out?


Indeed. I'd not recommend chaining 16 devices all in a row but this would work beautifully with some kind of midi router. The other thing to keep in mind is there is no sequencing of anything other than notes at this time.


So I can plug the black box into something like a midi to CV module and use it to sequence my gate, 1v/Oct and velocity correct?
SOPiiAC
Just notes and gates right now with a midi to cv module. Although you could use a separate track to sequence the velocity, I suppose.

One thing to keep in mind if you're interfacing with modular. The i/o is DC coupled so you can record modulation from your modular and then playback and sequence the modulation on the 6 different mono outs and send it back into your modules. thumbs up
landmax
When programming one shot drums in the sequencer, are they all at the same velocity? If so is there a way of adjusting velocities on the different hits/notes?
vegeta897
Note velocity can be recorded live to a sequence, but it can't be edited after the fact or set when programming in steps. According to 1010, they want to address this.
DruidTek
landmax wrote:
When programming one shot drums in the sequencer, are they all at the same velocity? If so is there a way of adjusting velocities on the different hits/notes?


Adjust the velocity fader on the right side of the main screen.
RichMakeGame
once you have a sample recorded, can you add to it? overdub/overwrite or record more on the end?
Spectromat
New beta firmware 1.1 available on the 1010Music forum:

We are pleased to make available our first feature update to blackbox. Version 1.1 includes the following:

Destructive editing. You can now trim a sample using the start and length controls in sample mode
WAV file saving. You can embed loops, root note, beat count, and slice markers into WAV files for future use
Control of the root note of a sample for matching the internal keyboard and MIDI
Control of the beat count of a clip for those recordings with odd beat counts and far tempo jumps
MIDI thru. You can now play external MIDI from the touch screen. Inbound MIDI will also route to the active SEQ and its MIDI channel.
Clips will now hold until you press the Play button. This allows you to stage several at once and unleash them in time.
Improved capture of SEQ changes when recording song sections.
Version 1.1 includes the following bug fixes:
There was digital bleed through from the Out 3 signal to the headphones and vice versa.

Just ordered one of these.. looking forward to having a play hyper
Paranormal Patroler
Great news!
versipellis
SOPiiAC wrote:
One thing to keep in mind if you're interfacing with modular. The i/o is DC coupled so you can record modulation from your modular and then playback and sequence the modulation on the 6 different mono outs and send it back into your modules. thumbs up


The manual isn't super clear on this, but can you record and save your CV modulations?
Spectromat
versipellis wrote:
can you record and save your CV modulations?


@14.55 there is talk of CV recording.
versipellis
Spectromat wrote:
versipellis wrote:
can you record and save your CV modulations?


@14.55 there is talk of CV recording.


Yes, I've seen that, but it doesn't say anything about saving the CV recordings.
vegeta897
versipellis wrote:
Yes, I've seen that, but it doesn't say anything about saving the CV recordings.


The machine does not differentiate or even "know" the difference between a CV recording and an audio recording, so yes, it saves WAVs of them the same way it saves audio samples.
Funky40
how is the audio recording working,
is it the same as in the bitbox ?
same kind of menüs and quantisation setup ?
( i have now a bitbox )


the bitbox seems to have destructive sample editing, is this right ?
can this be apllyed after the recording without a need to change pages or a mode or so.
(means: record / there you have your just recorded sample / just edit and cut from there.......or at least not more than one button push )
Miguel606
does anyone know if you can you plug the usb into laptop and backup projects or swap wav files back and forth?
anselmi
I´d want to know more about live looping

Is it possible to loop an incoming audio on the fly and then (automatically) the loop replace the source without glitches?

I mean: I´d want to sample and loop my Digitakt and let the loop run immediatly, muting the audio source without superposition of both, so I could change the pattern and then mix it back to make flawless transitions
DruidTek
anselmi wrote:
I´d want to know more about live looping

Is it possible to loop an incoming audio on the fly and then (automatically) the loop replace the source without glitches?

I mean: I´d want to sample and loop my Digitakt and let the loop run immediatly, muting the audio source without superposition of both, so I could change the pattern and then mix it back to make flawless transitions


Yes, of course! It just takes a while to learn the different quantise and recording settings, then practice the timing until you can do it.
Spectromat
Miguel606 wrote:
does anyone know if you can you plug the usb into laptop and backup projects or swap wav files back and forth?


I believe file transfer is by the removable microSD card only currently.
appliancide
Happy to report that the blackbox is great for child-friendly industrial/noise performances.

Paranormal Patroler
New beta firmware seems to allow resampling. Finally!
I haven't tested it yet but I'm looking forward to it.
anselmi
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
New beta firmware seems to allow resampling. Finally!
I haven't tested it yet but I'm looking forward to it.


still no resonant filter?

any kind of modulator?
Paranormal Patroler
No resonant filter that I know of, although to be honest I'd be far more interested in a decent parametric EQ and a full fledged compressor. Devices like these need EQ, Compression, Level, Panning, and Reverb. The rest I can outsource. But that's just what I'd expect.
anselmi
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
No resonant filter that I know of, although to be honest I'd be far more interested in a decent parametric EQ and a full fledged compressor. Devices like these need EQ, Compression, Level, Panning, and Reverb. The rest I can outsource. But that's just what I'd expect.


oh, no! too much DAW...and less an instrument, like the MPC live...leave this stuff for computers and add instrument features instead!

reverb would be OK
Paranormal Patroler
anselmi wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
No resonant filter that I know of, although to be honest I'd be far more interested in a decent parametric EQ and a full fledged compressor. Devices like these need EQ, Compression, Level, Panning, and Reverb. The rest I can outsource. But that's just what I'd expect.


oh, no! too much DAW...and less an instrument, like the MPC live...leave this stuff for computers and add instrument features instead!

reverb would be OK


I respectfully disagree. You can use external filters, delays, etc, in a global fashion such as what the Blackbox uses, and then re-record the material using the output/input workaround that users have been utilizing instead of the new resampling.

EQ'ing every single sample is impossible with external gear, but it's important for a good mix. As we are all well aware, most of us don't like using DAWs or avoid it if possible.

Reverb is already there and so is a closed Compressor. I really wish they'd open the compressor up and allow for sidechaining.
versipellis
Anyone know if the 1010 blackbox can do tempo detection of recorded loops like the Octatrack can?
shanebroderick
Does the Beatstep pro and the Blackbox play well together?

Also wanted to know about the beat detection of recorded loops.
DruidTek
A new firmware beta has just been released on the 1010music forum:

Quote:
Thanks for all the suggestions and feedback. Based on your input we are pleased to make available our next beta release, version 1.2. Here is the list of what's new:

Simple granular synthesis. We built this enhancement in response to requests for loop crossfading--it takes the idea much further. Look for a new option in the Sample/Clip/Slicer drop down menu. Granular mode works as an extension to sample mode. You can define the pitch, start, stop, length, loop mode, etc. You also get these parameters per voice:
Grain size: 1024 to 16384, which is about 10ms to about 200ms
Grain count: 2-8. Running 8 grains sounds cool but eats up the processor
Spread: The amount of randomization in grain position surrounding the playhead
Speed: How quickly the playhead advances through the waveform.

Copy and paste of PADS. From the PADS screen, turn the lower right knob to the right as you will see a new control panel.
Recording templates: Configure the pad mode, launch mode, envelope, and MIDI setup--before recording the sample
MIDI Keys channel. Hook a keyboard to the blackbox and it will play the active pad directly.
Knob control of the event step as well as pitch and duration in the SEQ editor.
MIDI output channel per pad
Control of the edit position in the text edit window. You can finally change the beginning of a file or preset name.
Pressing the grid button in the upper left corner of most control panels lets you switch PADS or SEQS directly without returning to the main screen
New navigation style for PADS. There are now only two main pages per pad: The Waveform and the Control Panel. The control panel has several sub pages directly accessible by a toolbar at the bottom
Bug fixes:
Saving or Trimming WAV files a few minutes in length would crash the box
Sometimes the knobs, particularly the upper right one, would jitter
Sometimes the thru-ing of MIDI controllers would alter the value slightly
On short envelopes, there was aliasing

Please check it out and let us know what you think. Thank you for your support

The 1010music Team


I'm blown away by the Granular Mode. It sounds a lot like PaulStretch with the right settings! Lots of little workflow refinements added this time around. The box is really starting to become a very polished and powerful little beast!
vegeta897
First experiment with the grandular synthesis, and I'm really pleased.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1ixRYtBXYy/

Maybe I'm easily impressed because I have so little experience with granular, but I love all the tonal qualities possible with grain size and count. It's great that it automatically plays through the sample at the speed you set (independent of pitch), and obeys your loop mode/markers. And the spread is a nice way to add even more interesting variation.
VM
Can we have a verdict on the amount of "clicking" otherwise noticeable end-of-sample noises? This is mentioned in the Loopop review but he kinda just glances over it.

Are there any user-programmable workarounds such as very short fade-ins/outs that can mitigate it?
Gyroscope
VM wrote:
Can we have a verdict on the amount of "clicking" otherwise noticeable end-of-sample noises? This is mentioned in the Loopop review but he kinda just glances over it.

Are there any user-programmable workarounds such as very short fade-ins/outs that can mitigate it?


I don't know for the Blackbox but the lack of crossfading on the Bitbox makes it pretty much unusable.
Paranormal Patroler
Take 5 minutes to sign up at the 1010 forum and request fade ins/outs and cross fades like I did.
VM
Thanks Gyroscope and Paranormal Patroler.

Sounds like clicking is an issue. I want auto-crossfades on looped samples and auto fades for one-shots before i pull the trigger.
Paranormal Patroler
VM wrote:
Thanks Gyroscope and Paranormal Patroler.

Sounds like clicking is an issue. I want auto-crossfades on looped samples and auto fades for one-shots before i pull the trigger.


You can cut your own samples, so clicks are not really an issue if you do the work properly. But that doesn't mean fade in/out wouldn't be useful!
Gyroscope
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Take 5 minutes to sign up at the 1010 forum and request fade ins/outs and cross fades like I did.


I did, about a year ago.
Panason
This last beta is impressive.
onthebandwagon
Panason wrote:
This last beta is impressive.


Do you have this and the SP-16?
Panason
I have the SP16 but not this, just curious.
onthebandwagon
Panason wrote:
I have the SP16 but not this, just curious.


Oh ok...
underthebigtree
Created this video today - thought some Blackbox folks would enjoy it.

MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear  
Page 1 of 5
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group