MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Yamaha CS80 re-issue (or not)
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Yamaha CS80 re-issue (or not)
tioJim
Hello

Surprised this hasn't hit anybody's radar yet.

Through their Ideascale portal, Yamaha are asking their user base, "If we did a new CS80 what would you want?"

Email from Yamaha:

Quote:
Hello from Yamaha,

Thanks for your Ideas and conversations. Apologies we haven't joined in. We would like to understand your analog synthesizer requests a bit more clearly. Please note we move in a very deliberate manner; this is just an initial focusing of the Ideas offered so far and not a commitment to build a product.

Our question is regarding basic conceptual direction if we were to make a new CS-80.

The thread is located on IdeaScasle here:
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/If-We-Made-a-CS-80/231192-4597 8

Additionally, the next tie you log in you will be asked to fill out a small number of profile questions. This will only take a few minutes and your answers will be confidential. However, this information will help us to better understand and ultimately serve our community and customers better.

Thank you for your time and participation.

Sincerely,
Ben
R&D Planning Manager
tioJim
Oh soz, forgot you have to be a member

Here's current conversation cut and pasted. It'll be messy, sorry!

//
Here is our first question:
If we made a CS-80, do you want a vintage reissue or a modern evolution?
Thanks again for your participation. We look forward to the conversation.
//

( Moderator )
Modern Evolution
[ Reply ] + 7 - 1 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Scott Brackett (@thebrackett) 6 days ago
Either would be amazing, but a vintage reissue of a really capable analog poly synth with no menus, after touch, and tons of faders and colorful rocker switches would be incredibly refreshing.
[ Reply ] + 7 - 3 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Emmanuel "Sonnemm" Mendives (@emmanuelandrem) 6 days ago
I believe a re issued CS 80 with some modern stuff would be awesome. Also, it should be able to be carried by only one person ????
[ Reply ] + 4 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Skrie (@sk.rie) 5 days ago (Last edited by Skrie 5 days ago)
Thank you so much for responding. I guess you want to beat Behringer to it eh???

The first and single most important thing for me would be the Polyphonic-Aftertouch.
The second most important thing for me would be, that the interface should be more or less comparable. (it has to have the controls)

It wouldn't even need to be analog if you ask me. But that might be just me.

I know that for some people the CS-80 is the analog sound and the filters.
For me it's just the expressive abilities and touch control that make it the synth I crave.
[ Reply ] + 4 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comments on this comment
Comment
Barry Warne (@keyboardjedi) 1 day ago
sk.rie yes absolutely the expressive keyboard, touch control, pitch-attack and the "foot" settings so you can get the organ harmonics, especially the 5 1/3 which I use a lot.
[ Reply ] + 1 0 [ Report Abuse ]
Comment
Community Member 5 days ago
The main thing is that you manage to get the instrument to a level, where it is really as good as the old one.
Modern analog instruments are often too „perfect" technically and have not very much real character. Everything is „perfect", but that often sounds clean and poor.
These instruments have often too much features, but don´t deliver the same emotional impact as the old ones.
If you name a new instrument CS80 you could make sure that this is the real one….
If you do an evolution, then make it clever.
Not too much features and gadgets. With real emotional character. With possible imperfections (even it is just to to dial in). With components that really sound……make it expensive (sorry smile
….ok this is another point. If it is expensive, it has a real value. A dream instrument (maybe a bit like Moog one). Behringer does already the cheap ones….I know that a company wants to earn money, but credibility and mythos is also worth something…
Thanks a lot…
flumb
smile
[ Reply ] + 5 - 1 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comments on this comment
Comment
Barry Warne (@keyboardjedi) 1 day ago
sometimes the CS-80 would sound terrible when you first turned it on. Week, weedy, thin .. and then you would start fiddling with the controls and before you knew it you had the sounds of interstellar battleships soaring around nebulas
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ]
Comment
Steve (@aerowizz) 5 days ago
Modern evolution with computer vst interface for deep patch editing and seamless daw integration while retaining all of the manual slider controls of original. A rack mounted/desktop version without a keyboard while still retaining the ribbon strip can be helpful to keep the sizes down for those of us with plenty of midi controllers. Virtual analog version would be ok with me if it sounds authentic.
[ Reply ] + 4 - 1 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Minio (@mclass25) 5 days ago
A modern incarnation of the CS80, seems like the logical step. Incorporating even a few basic updates, such as onboard effects, midi, usb, patch memory, and better portability would be appreciated. A ribbon controller, poly aftertouch, and most importantly, the rich sound of that classic board, would attract the attention of any synthesizer player, or enthusiast. Thanks in advance for the consideration, please keep us updated.
[ Reply ] + 4 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Community Member 5 days ago
vintage reissue for the sound; if it doesn't have that full stop.

modern evolution for a few more envelopes/lfos/modmatrix/multitimbrality/audio-outputs/etc.
[ Reply ] + 1 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Community Member 5 days ago
I think some balance between preserving the original features: beautiful analog oscillators , filter design, polyphonic aftertouch and voice architecture would all be essential. However at least some update would be required to provide feature the modern musician relies on: Midi interface of some type would be key , perhaps a CV ins and outs to interface with modular, some electronic magic at tuning the oscillators ( so no regular visits from a techinician) , and perhaps a physically lighter chassis.
In addition perhaps adding a modern in depth effects section ( that could be completely bypassed for those who wanted to remain 'pure') would be a nice enhancement.
Finally , and this might be to far an enhancement for some, adding a "motion control" style mod engine similar to montage superknob and motion control engine , to provide a further layer of programming....
So my vote would be for an update design , with features that many people now take for granted in a synth, but with simple "bypass" type buttons so those new features could be ignored if desired.
Hope you guys follow through on this project!
[ Reply ] + 4 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Sam Utah (@samutah) 4 days ago
A Modern version like Roland did with the Jupiter 80 compared to the Jupiter 8. So a CS 800 would look a lot like the original. It is critical that it sounds like the CS80 at a minimum but add a professional effects and multitrack sequencer/arpeggiator. If you could recreate the keyboard that would be great but in lieu of that make it MPE compatible for a Roli or new fangled controller. In that way you could have a desktop version as well. Most high end synths are multi-engine but you already have that in Montage/MODX. But include patch/category memory please. I had a CS50 and keyboard controls were right there, no menu diving. I appreciated that a lot. But add midi/usb, multiple outs and the ability to load purchased libraries... might be a winner.
[ Reply ] 0 - 1 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comments on this comment
Comment
Barry Warne (@keyboardjedi) 1 day ago
samutah I think Yamaha could look at what Moog has down with their Grandmother, and just put 8 of those under the control of one 61-note keyboard with poly AT. Please
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ]
Comment
Martin Tarenskeen (@m.tarenskeen) 1 day ago
samutah The Jupiter 80 and Jupiter 8 only have their name and (partly) looks in common. Not that the Jupiter 80 is a bad synth, it's a great synth, But just using a classic name for marketing purposes will irritate serious musicians more than it will attract them.

Yamaha should concentrate on developing a really really really good sounding analog or virtual analog engine instead of just trying to make money out of the nostalgia of a classic name. A VA engine would be a great addition to the Montage for example.
[ Reply ] + 1 0 [ Report Abuse ]
Comment
Sam Utah (@samutah) 9 hours ago
keyboardjedi Yes! might not be a perfect replication but it would be a wonderful synth. Look at Baloran River synth. I believe it is based on a Moog Source voice and they put 8 of them in it. It is pretty close to a CS-80 sound at times. But they only make a few hundred and costs 5500 euros. Yamaha would have efficient process and scale it to sell thousands. They could wrap it in modern controls and software. The challenge is the CS-80 keyboard controls... but I am sure it could be emulated. The pressure sensitivity presages the MPE/Roli development. But Roli requires a computer (with one exception). Put it in the box and a readout like the Waldorf Quantum and I could spend over 3K for the machine and glad to. It might take on the Quantum and Moog One in the 4-6K range. I would have to wait on that. But 3-4K might be doable. To quicken the pace, why don't they just buy Baloran or Black's Dekkard's Dream and re-package it.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ]
Comment
Sam Utah (@samutah) 9 hours ago
m.tarenskeen Good point, probably a poor analogy at best. I think Barry Warne is on to the solution. However the GrandMother voice is probably to new to avoid copyright. But the Source, as Baloran has done, is so old it can be copied.... but maybe they have the CS-80 voice in the archives and can resurrect it .... I suspect a VA engine is easier to do since the Reface updated the AN engine but a fully analog has its own vibe and following. I say buy or license Baloran River.... like Waldorf did with the Kyra and Roland with SE-02. Yamaha River 8 or 16.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ]
Comment
Michael Williams (@nexus2nexus) 1 day ago
Somewhat affordable modern evolution. With aftertouch.
[ Reply ] + 2 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Barry Warne (@keyboardjedi) 1 day ago
A good-feeling, polyphonic aftertouch keyboard with "CS-80" controls up to the Tone Generator point is probably most important. That's the missing ingredient.

The Black Corporation's Deckard's Dream is out there but lacking in a control surface. The Novation Peak is also another good example of a fantastic Tone Generator. Perhaps some amalgam between the Deckard's Dream and the Novation Peak would serve as example.

PS I will be in Japan during October 2019 and can stop in for NDA input. I owned two CS-80s. I know what makes them tick.
[ Reply ] + 2 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comments on this comment
Comment
Skrie (@sk.rie) 23 hours ago (Last edited by Skrie 23 hours ago)
keyboardjedi Yes. The Novation Peak is perfect. I guess if you stacked 2 Peaks and added a Poly-AT keyboard you'd basically get a modern CS-80. I get a lot of shit for saying things like this on Youtube. Here's little Peak projects I work on to fill the CS-80 void in my life:
[ Reply ] + 2 0 [ Report Abuse ]
Comment
Sam Utah (@samutah) 9 hours ago
sk.rie Lovely.More cost effective than my idea of buying or licensing Baloran River. I think I need a Peak.... I wonder if I could program the touch strips on the Prophet X, Kronos or Montage to do the touch bar sliding? I think the X has the longest throw, if so it is an elegant solution. Looks like you added some custom modules ...
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ]
Comment
Barry Warne (@keyboardjedi) 6 hours ago (Last edited by Barry Warne 5 hours ago)
sk.rie ..um...that is pretty awesome .. what's happening there ... like, what parts did you make or put together to emulate the CS-80 control? That's the fascinating part to me. And Yamaha needs to have yourself and me onboard with their design team.

Just as fans of Game of Thrones could have written good scripts for the last season, so too could CS-80 enthusiasts be super helpful in designing the new Yamaha CS-80xxx
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ]
Comment
Barry Warne (@keyboardjedi) 5 hours ago
sk.rie I thought the Peak allowed dual voices or more?
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ]
Comment
Skrie (@sk.rie) 10 minutes ago (Last edited by Skrie 9 minutes ago)
keyboardjedi Warning... long story!

It's just a midi controller. So MIDI goes out, anything I want. It uses an Arduino to generate midi messages.
The Peak is already pre-equiped with patches I made that respond to my midi messages.
(I made a whole batch of Vangelis / Bladerunner styled patches to go with it)

Most of these effects are done using the Mod-Matrix and the midi-controller controlls the modulation depth. For other settings I had to be a bit more creative.
For example... for the MIX button I lower 1 OSC and up another at the same time.
(I control only OSC 1 + 2 that way. You could see OSC3 as a bonus OSC... like the Sine wave is on a CS80 voice )

For the FEET function I'm still digging deeper to create the 5.5 and 2.5 steps in between the 2,4,8 and 16.
I'm still working on a better program for the pitch bender... I'll be honest, it might be to hard for me to really nail it.

It'll take me till the end of the year to work it all out... I'll make a vid to display all the nitty gritty details when that's done.

And NO... the Peak has only one voice. It has 3 oscilators per voice... but it lacks a voice compared to the CS80.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ]
Comment
Community Member 1 day ago
Great keyboard, lots of controls, lose the weight!
[ Reply ] + 2 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Simon Beck (@butterfingersbeck) 1 day ago
A starting point would be the architecture of the Reface CS, but using two complete voices in parallel. That would be similar to the CS-80, particularly with the addition of velocity and after-touch. It would also allow patch compatibility with the Reface CS.
[ Reply ] + 4 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Matthew Chism (@cheeseholm) 1 day ago (Last edited by Matthew Chism 1 day ago)
Close to Vintage, with modern connections, patch storage, maybe a software editor (instead of display menu). Love this idea!
[ Reply ] + 3 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
synthientsound (@synthientsound) 1 day ago (Last edited by synthientsound 11 hours ago)
People want the CS-80 and I'd suggest two strategies.

#1 Full analog VCO driven boutique polysynth that is a modern take on the CS-80, much like the Moog One, The River, OB-6/Prophet 6, etc. (meaning classic sounding analog polysynths that go beyond the original 70s/80s polysynth in usability and function).
-MIDI and other modern features to make it usable in a modern studio
-Knob/slider driven, but with a large focus screen. The Moog One has the best UI ever put out on a synth (I'm an owner). Would love to see the same philosophy
from Yamaha.
-61 key with Polyphonic Aftertouch with a nice keybed
-digital preset system with patch naming (can't remember what patch 739 is on my DSI OB-6!)
-full analog synth, but add full bypass-able digital effects (must not leave any A/D-D/A conversion in signal path)
-classic look, but updated
-must do the original sounds. Should be able to go beyond them as well.

#2 Virtual analog CS-80 and plugin.
-similar to the Roland System 8 and a less expensive alternative to the analog mega synth above.
-feature loadable classic virtual analog versions Yamaha synths as well as classic digital like the DX-7.
-61 key Aftertouch keybed

#3 Would also suggest in addition to the analog poly, some full analog smaller models, perhaps a monosynth/duophonic like some of the lower number CS synths.
[ Reply ] + 4 - 2 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Troy Pollard (@tmessages) 1 day ago
A reissue of the CS-80 would be great BUT many could not afford it, let alone lift it. A modern incarnation of the CS-80: Lighter but offering the same sonic characteristics (whether analog or an analog modeled engine that could model the circuitry of the original CS-80 w/ extra waveforms & features). It would be great if it offered performance controls, the visual aesthetics of the original CS-80 with modern features such as MIDI, USB utilities, and even sending MIDI CC messages from all of the controls on the panel and oh yeah, give it generous onboard patch storage.
[ Reply ] + 2 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Community Member 1 day ago (Last edited by Community Member 1 day ago)
There's no need for new CS80, I don't see any reason why to do it. It's just a history. Go future! Improve Montage, or make a new even better instrument with more synth engines, and with all good features of your instruments from the past (including CS80). Or invent something new, like Waldorf Quantum. Yamaha was always innovative, return to this attitude, not to the history.
I have sold my CS80 one year ago, because there are rare custom IC's inside which have no equivalents so repair is almost impossible. The idea that something with go wrong frightened me. And I didn't like limited sound possibilities.
[ Reply ] 0 - 3 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
JerryA (@tusker) 1 day ago (Last edited by JerryA 1 day ago)
Thank you for considering this! Modern evolution is desired but important original features must be retained ...

- Controls: Poly AT and Ribbon should be provided. Also ergonomic timbral controls as on original (e.g. ring modulation slider)
- Sound: must be analog and smooth (if using digital control, it must be smoothed/interpolated)

Modern features you should consider: digital efx on a parallel bus, support for MPE (Midi Polyphonic Expression), digital presets, a digital oscillator system (AWM2, or wavetable or FMX or VL) to supplement the analog oscillators, analog pre-filter overdrive/saturation
[ Reply ] + 1 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Harry (@weequid) 1 day ago
Modern evolution. Retro is regressive. For me the most important aspect of the CS-80 was the expressiveness. Polyphonic aftertouch is a must. Weighted hammer action. Ribbon controller. Sliders. The sound engine isn't as important. Analog, analog modeling, digital; not important to me. There is so much software and hardware out there that comes close to the sound of a CS-80, but they all fail miserably when it comes to interfacing with a human being. Make a machine that is about the human being sitting behind it. We make the music. We make the poetry. We have the feelings and dreams; not the machines.
[ Reply ] + 4 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Larry Larraga (@larrylarraga) 1 day ago
Modern imagining of the vintage classic.The SOUND, plus modern interface that was not available at the time of the original A modern hybrid synth with huge virtual analog base complemented by killer samples and FM technology.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Barry Warne (@keyboardjedi) 1 day ago
Just take 8 super cheap bare bones analog synths.

Add the best feeling Stagea or Ddeck Keyboard you have

Keep it simple and as fun as the Moog Grandmother
[ Reply ] 0 - 1 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Aaron R Albrecht (@aaronralbrecht) 1 day ago
Modern evolution. Maintain the original's character, and build from there. And make it an instrument that is feasible to perform with, size/weight/feature-wise.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Tee Parsley (@arglebargle) 1 day ago
Definitely modern evolution. But understand the combination of control and sound that made the CS80 special. Don't stint in either direction. I'd prefer a keyboard and module both, personally, as keyboard is not my instrument. And as always, the headliner instrument can lead to other versions. Well worth the work to re-establish a classic instrument, imo. (I actually owned a CS80 way back when, externally in great condition, but the electronics were badly damaged. No one would work on it, and it never sounded good. But serious gravitas!)
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
David Eastman (@deastman) 1 day ago
I would prefer a modern evolution, built with contemporary features and smaller, more efficient SMD circuits. That said, you would be treading a fine line. The only thing that would set a modern CS80 apart from any other modern analog polysynth would be the sound. It absolutely has to nail the sound of the original, or don't even bother, because it would be rejected by the core audience who desires such a reissue.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Scott Ferguson (@pleaseletmebetatest) 1 day ago
There's already a CS80 remake and it is pretty amazing, so I wouldn't really advise you to try to out compete them. Maybe just work with them to incorporate them or manufacture it for them (like Roland did with Studio Electronics for that SE-02) so it becomes less expensive and everybody wins.
If that's not something you can do, then you probably have to do both a piece-by-piece full-size replica for the vintage synth purists, and some kind of rack or desktop unit that's a little more compact for people who are more practical and don't need the vintage look
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Barry Warne (@keyboardjedi) 1 day ago
Let's talk when I visit Japan in October and here are my credentials:

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/503cb9_e983be8af4c04aaeab6e15eab1ca 8569~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_720,h_470,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/503cb9_e 983be8af4c04aaeab6e15eab1ca8569~mv2.webp
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Community Member 1 day ago
While you're at it, offer add-on modules including an 8-voice VP-1 and an 8-voice VL-1. A hybrid monster...
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Johannes (JayB) (@jayb1988) 1 day ago
Definitely a modern one. Polyphonic unisono modes and stereo output would be very appreciated.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Michele (@wavesequence) 1 day ago
Modern evolution with at least eight times of polyphony, on board effects, separate outputs, audio inputs to process sounds, 76 keys keyboard, physycal controllers similar to the original model but not excessively minaturized.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Community Member 1 day ago
Please do it with a least a 100kg of weight
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Brian H (@brianhidea) 1 day ago
I would like to see a modern reissue which is affordable.
It should have the same capabilities as the original and as many controls as feasible to minimise menu access. A great feature would be to include the Yamaha GX1 sound architecture capabilities as switchable options.
[ Reply ] + 1 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
You 1 day ago
A faithful reissue would be a marvel to behold but I don't believe you'd be crazy enough to do it so ...

Original sound and controls but in a smaller, lighter package

Retro styling, invoking the original

Analog, not modelled

Some modernisations, MIDI and MIDI over USB for starters
[ Reply ] [ Edit ] + 1 0 [ Delete ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Derek Cook (@derek.cook) 1 day ago (Last edited by Derek Cook 1 day ago)
Interesting mix of comments, so plenty for you to consider!

Budget would be a large issue, as if it is only affordable to the few then it could be a big flop.

Whilst it might be heresy for the purists, I would say go the modelling route (your modelling has always been excellent - the AN1x is still a favourite of mine), writing the code with portability in mind so it will run on a platform like the Montage (I live in hope!), a VST/AU and then a recreation of the original as a standalone keyboard. That way you would cover all bases.

For a hardware version I would say a modern take on this classic, much lighter (should be possible!) with MIDI, effects, etc. TBH, I have no more space for hardware, so this would give me a big problem if you ever did this!
[ Reply ] + 1 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Henrik Nørby (@n0rbyn0rby) 1 day ago
Analog portability and effects on top of the old functionality and it needs to store presets.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Tomás Mulcahy (@tomfada) 1 day ago
As long as it has the same user interface- wood keys, poly AT, ribbon controller, same front panel layout. If it's a Reface inside that would be perfectly fine!
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Alex S. (@aselck) 24 hours ago
I'd like to see Yamaha return to analog or virtual analog synths in general. The Reface CS is great, but too limited ultimately. Give it a great user interface with lots of sliders and knobs and those yellow and red and green buttons I think this is (besides getting the sound right) the most important thing on an analog/virtual analog synth. As other people said, both the real analog and virtual analog devices Yamaha issued in the past sounded great and became classic synths.
[ Reply ] + 1 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Richard Meyer (@rikmaxspeed) 24 hours ago (Last edited by Richard Meyer 21 hours ago)
A digital version with lots of knobs, a good screen for patch names / utilities, and a 5 octave keyboard with aftertouch would work for me.

Analogue would probably cost too much, although many people might hanker after it, they wouldn't be able to afford it, so you won't sell many despite expensive manufacturing costs & effort.

But an excellent analogue emulation, maybe using some form of analogue circuit modelling (really put the effort there!), would be well received and provide the additional flexibility and built-in FX that people expect.

No 4-octave keyboard please!!! We can play keys!

Plus nobody wants to lug 50+ kg of synth around!
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Community Member 23 hours ago
If Korg can deliver a good four voice true analog synth with multi effects and good build quality at £565 yes, Minilogue XD, I'm sure Yamaha could do something very interesting at around £1500.

How about 8 note poly, lots of knobs and faders like a CS80, after-touch and ribbon controller, quality build. Something to compete with the Roland System 8....
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Community Member 22 hours ago (Last edited by Community Member 21 hours ago)
I'm an owner of mint condition CS80 and a DX1. They are both astounding - and if Yamaha issues any synthesizer with close to these capabilities will become a modern classic. Here are my recommendations:

1. Chassis - min 5 octaves weighted keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch (logarithmic response). Build quality to be on the high end - wooden end cheeks, ...

2. Very similar control surface - but - on a lighter frame a la Schmidt / Wave / Matrix Brute

3. Realtime performance controls as close to original CS80 as possible - Ribbon - Ring Modulator - and Real time "Levers" (not faders) above the Ribbon. The performance controls, under the control of polyphonic aftertocuh, are the essence of the CS80

4. Same Dual Channel architecture.

5. Same Satwooth, and filters

6. Anything after that is a bonus - more flexible oscillators (a la Moog One or DSI Pro2, ,,,) - multiple filter options, .... (Dual engine architecture - FPGA Analogue + Digital / Wavetable, ...??)

7. All the expected computer connectivity - USB, ...

8. Enable its control surface to be the ULTIMATE controller for plugins. Almost all plugins today offer polyphonic aftertouch - make the CS80 THE controller of choice for THE top plugins. Perhaps work with Arturia on the CS80V in particular?

9) Price point around the Moog One will be fine - it needs to be of high quality and Moog One is selling. Do not compromise quality for a lower price - theres no point to it otherwise.

10 ) Perhaps you can address a range of prices by offering flexible voice purchasing options - on 2 voice cards - from a 2 to 16 voice system. It would enable people to start at low voice count and build as budget allowed - 21st century 'M Cards'. Those M Cards could also potentially be offered for a rack or Eurorack format too!!

Kevin Nolan.
[ Reply ] + 4 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Igor Molka (@molkaigor) 21 hours ago (Last edited by Igor Molka 21 hours ago)
Hello Ben! Take a look at Moog One! We need a vintage ANALOG Yamaha CS-80 with new advanced features and high quality effects. This will be the future classics.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Terence (@terence25) 21 hours ago
A vintage reissue but less heavy than the original !
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Stellan Holgersson (@stellanholgersson) 21 hours ago
Definitely a modern evolution (more than 4 patches in memory!) of a state-of-the art performance synthesizer. It is essential to have the polyphonic after touch, the ribbon controller and the direct access to all functions. An increase in the multi-timbrality is also highly desirable.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Benedetto Schiavone (@benis67) 21 hours ago
A modern evolution
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Conor S (@conor.strachan) 21 hours ago
Full sized keys.
Analog oscillator
Analog filter
Poly AT
Midi
Patch memory with LCD
No attempt to integrate digital waves or any hybrid samples into it. Keep it as true to the original as possible but with modernised features like DS did with Prophet 6 but preferable to have bigger Keybed.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
alexsmoke (@alexsmoke) 20 hours ago
Modern evolution. But not taking things too far from what it is, namely one of the best player's synths. The CS80 had so many features and doesn't need a whole load more. VirtualAnalogue or true analogue can both work I think, although true analogue maybe suits the heritage better. All-out quality and a great keyboard with PolyAT make sense as the focus, alongside the modern conveniences of patch memory/USB, etc. And I think to keep some of the lever designs also makes sense.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
PopBott (@popbott) 19 hours ago
A smaller sized vintage analog reissue with modern updates would me amazing. Stable MIDI, USB MIDI, CV, 16 voices, knob or slider MIDI recording, ability to save presets, step sequencer, on board effects, everything syncs to MIDI clock, VST capability and most of all, multi-timbral capability. Optional full size 61 and 49 key versions in a metal casing, classic look, the size of a Nordlead 2 would be amazing. Yamaha should make this a future classic and repeat the success of the DX-7 all over again!
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Community Member 19 hours ago
A modern evolution.

The key would be to nail the essence of how Vangelis used the CS-80 on Blade Runner. That's the most iconic use of the instrument.

So - create a modern, surface-mount implementation of the CS-80 analog circuits, with tuning stabilized. Add a basic set of very high quality effects - chorus, phaser, reverbs. And provide a very tactile interface, modeled on the original, so that users have great expressive control.
[ Reply ] + 1 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Andrew Seeley (@synthjam) 18 hours ago
I think modern for sure , it wouldd certainly help keep the costs down as well. but with some hint towards the CS80 styling.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Jim Michalik (@watchful) 18 hours ago
Probably the only way to make everyone happy is to produce a modern, updated one that could still faithfully--very faithfully-reproduce the features of the original. In other words, for the folks wanting a modern one, offer MIDI, MPE, DAW integration, and so on--but if you really wanted to go old-school, you could ignore every single new feature and program, play, and control it the old way.

Korg did this fairly well with the Arp Odyssey series: an original Odyssey player could be up-to-speed in seconds on the new ones (they're quite close to the original), but all sorts of new features were added if you wanted to use them. There's no need for this to be an either/or product.
[ Reply ] + 1 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
David Sherwood (@daviduk1) 17 hours ago
I would like a re-issued CS-80. Same controls, wonderful keyboard and polyphonic aftertouch.

IF Midi I/o, patch memories and a modern, stable power supply could be added without detriment to the wonderful sound then great. If they affect the sound, leave them out.

If Yamaha go to the trouble of making a new CS-80, it should be a CS-80, not some modern virtual copy. Vangelis should not be able to tell the difference.
[ Reply ] + 1 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comments on this comment
Comment
Community Member 1 hour ago
daviduk1 Great way of putting it: Blindfolded and able only to access (say) keyboard and left hand controls, Vangelis should not be able to hear or feel the difference.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ]
Comment
jhendrix (@upplift) 17 hours ago
modern evolution (MPE), expressive, living, modutable, syncable, warm & <5000€
[ Reply ] 0 - 1 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Community Member 12 hours ago
Modern Evolution with all (plus more) of the sound quality and expressiveness available in the original.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Dirk (@prophonic) 11 hours ago
Sound generation true analog, based on the original IG chips, at least for vco, vcf and vca. Ring modulator and ribbon should be as close to original as possible.
Anything else could be modern as long as it has the same direct intuitiive access (one knob/slider per function) and functionality.
[ Reply ] + 1 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Chris Baxter (@cbaxter33) 11 hours ago
Modern evolution
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Community Member 5 hours ago
A true analog behemoth based on the original iconic masterpiece, with only some modernisation where it would actually improve the functionality at all.
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Community Member 1 hour ago (Last edited by Community Member 1 hour ago)
Modern evolution. For me, any new CS-80 must have:
- Polyphonic aftertouch and that amazing CS-80 keybed
- The full length ribbon controller
- All the left hand / live playing controls
- The same sound architecture - VCO, VCF, ring mod etc. (however achieved)
...but I would prefer some take some modern upgrades provided they don't compromise the sound:
- Digital patch storage
- Additional digital effects (vintage reverb in particular)
- Stabilization of tuning if desired
- Another 8 voices of polyphony
- Anything else in addition to original features which comes cheaply: More multitibrality, more arp modes, sequencer etc.
I think the Moog One 16 is a reasonable illustration of how old + new can be mixed (I own one). It just doesn't have that magic of the CS-80 though!
I think a modern CS-80 could command best part of $10K
[ Reply ] 0 0 [ Report Abuse ] [ Pin ]
Comment
Community Member 1 hour ago
By the way, huge respect to Yamaha for engaging in this discussion!
sduck
Wow, I'm surprised they're even talking about this. They've never done reissues.
tioJim
sduck wrote:
Wow, I'm surprised they're even talking about this. They've never done reissues.


I know, right?! Maybe it's just a ruse to stimulate conversation but they'd be making a rod for their own backs if that were the case and they could just ask "if we revisited something CS80-ish" rather than "If we made a CS-80"!!!

I'd *love* to see a CS80 re-issue ... I doubt I'd buy it, I'd just love to see it out of pure curiosity!

It occured to me the other day that Yamaha is about 10x bigger than any of its competitors. Not Yamaha music in isolation but the whole of Yamaha (which is probably why Uli isn't cloning any Yamaha gear but that's another thread wink )
khyber
Re-issues are the new analog
calaveras
sduck wrote:
Wow, I'm surprised they're even talking about this. They've never done reissues.

(cough) reface


And there was also that pair of synths they did a while back.
Forget the model names, but one was analog, the other was a DX synth and could legit load DX patches.

But okay, aside from FM synths, they would rather make new lawnmowers then an analog synth.
I hope they do a CS80M with full support for poly aftertouch, but with a lot less weight!
Sir Ruff
khyber wrote:
Re-issues are the new analog


seriously!

But it only makes sense for Yamaha to finally jump in properly. The Refaces were a bit of toe dipping.
kcd06
Analog polysynths are, figuratively speaking, a dime a dozen currently. Korg, novation, Moog, Bereinger, etc., all make one or more. To my own perspective, what makes the CS80 special and still relevant today is the polyphonic aftertouch/pressure, the filters, and the ringmod, all of which are doable in any of the current production synths with relatively minor changes in manufacturing. Besides, Black Corporation has already made an apparently reasonable equivalent to the CS80 using modern components and mfg processes, for about what Yamaha would likely charge.

What would be nice is not more bandwagoning, but a modern DX5 equivalent. FM, multi timbral, high polyphony, limited menu diving in favor of knob per function capability, and a decent MPE touchstrip; that is something with very little market representation.
UltraViolet
Wow! Unexpected news from Yamaha. Interesting that someone commented that it didn't have to be analog. My dream is a modern synth with the expressiveness and magic of the CS-80. An expressive keyboard like TouchKeys or the Roli Seaboard (but needs more keys than what they currently offer), the little randomness that gives character, amazingly good sounding filters, 16 voice polyphony, dozens and dozens of knobs to control everything, physical modeling abilities, a powerful effects engine, and full stereo output. To do it digitally would need a lot of power, like 2 to 4 TMC320C6678 multi-core DSPs. Somehow I am going to build one. I would like to be able to sell them as well, but it will take a lot of work and time to build up a reputation selling less expensive products before I can expect to find 100 people willing to pay $2000 to $3000 for one on a Kickstarter. It would have to be a Kickstarter since there will be very little profit in making them even that price point and I don't have $200,000+ lying around.
rowsbywoof
Being that they're throwing out the idea of an analog reissue, this is pretty interesting. Sure, there's the Deckard's Dream, and maybe that's influencing this a bit, but I think the idea of a proper new member to the CS family would be pretty exciting. I'd rather see a new take on the CS-80 than a complete reissue, but either way, I'd take a modern CS-80 over a lot of the current analog polys on the market. That sound is still kind of the quintessential analog poly to me, and I'd love to have something new with a similar voice.
umma gumma
wow, well April 1st was not too long ago, when did they initially post that?

I think it would be fantastic
sduck
calaveras wrote:
sduck wrote:
Wow, I'm surprised they're even talking about this. They've never done reissues.

(cough) reface


Ack. Forgot about that. Actually, it crossed my mind, but for some reason I was thinking it was Roland that did those.
SynthBaron
sduck wrote:
Wow, I'm surprised they're even talking about this. They've never done reissues.


Behringer paved the way that showed there was real demand.

I just hope it will *play* like a CS-80, not just sound like it. Anyone who's had hand on experience with a CS-50/60/80 will understand what I mean. They're just expressive as fuck.
tioJim
umma gumma wrote:
wow, well April 1st was not too long ago, when did they initially post that?


Nope! Email arrived on the 24th
tioJim
SynthBaron wrote:
I just hope it will *play* like a CS-80, not just sound like it. Anyone who's had hand on experience with a CS-50/60/80 will understand what I mean. They're just expressive as fuck.


Lots of people have emphasised this in the discussion.

"If you're making a re-issue and it doesn't have the same performance controls then don't bother."

Seems to be the general opinion (of those favouring a re-issue))
doombient.music
The same user interface as well as the responsive keyboard, combined with a lot more portability, would be a good starting point. Tuning stability, more comprehensive envelopes for VCF and VCA, and memories would be a godsend, too.

Even though I really do appreciate the way the CS80 looks and feels, I think I could do without the tolex-covered synth-in-a-suitcase monstrosity -- the way Moog have paved with their One seems to be right in terms of size and weight.

Stephen

PS: Has Behringer acquired Yamaha?
tioJim
doombient.music wrote:
PS: Has Behringer acquired Yamaha?


Hahaha!

If they have and Uli moves on to motorbikes and speedboats then God help us all!
chachi
it better have that velvet ribbon...
chiasticon
I'm skeptical... after not doing any analog synths for...what...? 30 years? they all of a sudden decide to jump back into the game with the most expensive/complicated option? even Korg lightly dipped a toe in the water with the Monotron, before slowly progressing towards the MS20, Odyssey, etc. true, the market for analog synths is way more obvious now than it was when Korg did that, but still... from nothing to CS80 is quite a leap.

I hope I'm wrong, of course! w00t
a100user
Fundamentally I think the CS80 is all about the user interface.

Many synths can produce close approximations of the CS80 sound but it's the lack of articulations that leads them to losing the magic.

I'm not fussed if they do this in DSP or real circuitry but if it doesn't have the interface and that wonderful poly aftertouch keybed then it'll never pass for a CS80 IMHO.

Oh and agree with comments above, I want to be able to carry it without a team of sherpa's.
Funch
Needs to analog audio signal path. Otherwise why bother? Would also like to see it in an affordable rack mount option..
standudinski
the CS-80 was an expensive machine to produce then and it is more so today, if they were to go the authentic route. how are they planning to address that?
sduck
I would think (hope?) that they would perhaps license the DDRM design for the sound engine, hopefully with some tweaks to make it a bit more robust. Or redesign the sound engine in that kind of way. That would solve the rats nest of wiring and tuning issues, and reduce the weight considerably.

I don't think they would be considering this if they felt compelled to build it the way they used to - that rats nest of wiring, and the only patch memory being a second set of controls, makes no sense in this day and age.
lisa
What would the price of a pure reissue be, something like $20 000? More? Not for me but I’m sure there are at least a few hundred people who would cough up the dough.
SynthBaron
I would be surprised if they didn't go the ASIC route, between how many parts were on those voice cards and their history of doing so.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Page 1 of 2
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group