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Cool New Idea
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Author Cool New Idea
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Hey Team!

I was just listening to Luciano Berio's "Sequenzas" which are virtuoso pieces for various solo instruments. Sequenza X is for trumpet. It is called:

Sequenza X per tromba in do (e risonanze di pianoforte)

Basically, the trumpet player is playing into the open body of a grand piano, while the sustain pedal of the piano is held down. This gives a very cool resonant reverberation effect from the piano.

Have a listen (there are one or two live versions of this on YouTube as well, but this is the recording I downloaded, cuz there's a whole album):



So, that's the whole idea! Play your modular into the open lid of a grand piano while holding down the sostenuto pedal, and record the results into a microphone. Maybe I'll give it a try after I've finished marking my goddamn final exams (if I don't blow my brains out first).

It would be especially cool if the modular signal could be removed from the audio, so that only the resonance of the piano was heard, but I'm not sure how one could do that (add the inverse of the modular signal to the output?).
Rigo
So it is not about needing a bigger case anymore, it's about needing a bigger house to put that grand piano ... hihi
astrosound
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
It would be especially cool if the modular signal could be removed from the audio, so that only the resonance of the piano was heard, but I'm not sure how one could do that (add the inverse of the modular signal to the output?).


A piano with piezo pickups like the Yamaha CP-70/80 would allow this without a microphone. But the mic would probably be picking up some acoustic magic inside the piano so there's a bit of a trade-off there... I'll try it with my cp-70 sometime.

Thanks for the tip!
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Rigo wrote:
So it is not about needing a bigger case anymore, it's about needing a bigger house to put that grand piano ... hihi


Well, yeah, but you could use an upright piano if you have one. The effect would probably be similar (especially if it's one of those very tall Yamaha uprights, which are hella loud).

I tried it with my guitar through a little Yamaha practice amp sitting right on the resonator of the piano, and it was kinda cool, but very subtle. Maybe I'll plug in my Minilogue later and give that a try.
calaveras
I recall reading in Tape Op about a production that used the same technique quite a while ago. Wish I could recall which one, but I feel like it had to be a Dan Lanois or Eno thing.

I did at one time use a garage sale zither in a similar fashion. I'd installed a piezo pickup on it to play with mallets and try to ape the Goblin soundtrack for Suspiria. But that failed. So I ended up using it as a reverb effect. Either near a guitar amp, or drumset. Or sometimes I just rigged a headphone to it.
I broke it trying to mount a speaker transducer to the body. Was following a suggestion of how to make a plate reverb at home, but my woodworking skills are worse than my guitar playing.
the bad producer
I was like "wow, this is really cool, and they're playing Joanna Brouk on the piano too!".... Then I realised I had Joanna Brouk playing already zombie ... anway, thank you for this, very interesting!
ersatzplanet
It is an old music concrete technique for what I use to call "Sympathetic Reverb". The very best way to di it was with a piano string pickup like there Helpinstill Piano Pickup which is a really great rig that installs really easily (video installation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3mB3ZuKjjw ). I did this in collage because they had a set already installed on a baby grand. You can get so very etherial sounds but the speakers have to be fairly loud to vibrate the strings. A easier way, if the pickups are magnetic and not piezo, is to set the speakers directly on the soundboard to vibrate the strings. Upright pianos can sometimes to a easier job because if the speakers are small enough, they can be closed inside the string bay and the lid closed.
dubonaire
I just thought I'd mention this as well:

http://www.alvin-lucier-film.com/nothing.html
Rex Coil 7
Kansas (the band) used to record certain guitar parts by stuffing a Pignose in an open 9-foot grand piano and mic'ing it with various mics in various placements to capture sympathetic overtones. Several mics on several tracks allowed for mixing. They did the same thing with a Pignose and a Conga. I believe that was done on various albums/songs up to (but not including) "Two For The Show". So, up to roughly 1977.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Hey Rex Coil 7, I just noticed your signature. It reminded me of this:

Show me a good man and I'll show you the door. The last hymn is sung, and the Devil cries, "More!"

Given that you are a Kansas geek, you probably know from where that quote comes.........
JohnLRice
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Hey Rex Coil 7, I just noticed your signature. It reminded me of this:

Show me a good man and I'll show you the door. The last hymn is sung, and the Devil cries, "More!"

Given that you are a Kansas geek, you probably know from where that quote comes.........
I have a passion for playing that album! Miley Cyrus
numan7
JohnLRice wrote:
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Hey Rex Coil 7, I just noticed your signature. It reminded me of this:

Show me a good man and I'll show you the door. The last hymn is sung, and the Devil cries, "More!"

Given that you are a Kansas geek, you probably know from where that quote comes.........
I have a passion for playing that album! Miley Cyrus


confused hmm, here's what google returns for The last hymn is sung, and the Devil cries, "More!":

google wrote:
"The Devil Cried" is a song by heavy metal band Black Sabbath featured on the compilation Black Sabbath: The Dio Years.[1] The song peaked on the Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks at No. 38.[2] It was one of three new recordings the group did for the compilation (the others being "Shadow of the Wind" and "Ear in the Wall").[3] Tony Iommi has called the song, "a mid-tempo track which is... riff-based again, great vocals and I think that's really good."[4]

According to Dio on the "Heaven and Hell Road Movie" extra on the Live from Radio City Music Hall DVD, the song is about the ability to return to Heaven if a soul in Hell could succeed in making Satan cry.


Dead Banana i never realized black sabbath was from kansas...

anyways, frank zappa also did something somewhat along these lines (spoken word inside a grand piano) back in the 1960s for the album 'lumpy gravy'.


cheers
dubonaire
numan7 wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Hey Rex Coil 7, I just noticed your signature. It reminded me of this:

Show me a good man and I'll show you the door. The last hymn is sung, and the Devil cries, "More!"

Given that you are a Kansas geek, you probably know from where that quote comes.........
I have a passion for playing that album! Miley Cyrus


confused hmm, here's what google returns for The last hymn is sung, and the Devil cries, "More!":

google wrote:
"The Devil Cried" is a song by heavy metal band Black Sabbath featured on the compilation Black Sabbath: The Dio Years.[1] The song peaked on the Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks at No. 38.[2] It was one of three new recordings the group did for the compilation (the others being "Shadow of the Wind" and "Ear in the Wall").[3] Tony Iommi has called the song, "a mid-tempo track which is... riff-based again, great vocals and I think that's really good."[4]

According to Dio on the "Heaven and Hell Road Movie" extra on the Live from Radio City Music Hall DVD, the song is about the ability to return to Heaven if a soul in Hell could succeed in making Satan cry.


Dead Banana i never realized black sabbath was from kansas...

anyways, frank zappa also did something somewhat along these lines (spoken word inside a grand piano) back in the 1960s for the album 'lumpy gravy'.


cheers


No it's from Jethro Tull's 'A Passion Play', which was another continuous concept album following Thick as a Brick. Which also had spoken word, an absurdist dada piece called "The Story of the Hare Who Lost His Spectacles". The back end of which is like some contemporary chilled tech house.



And I think it's the band Kansas being referred to, not the state.
Rex Coil 7
... my sig is a phrase from an album made by a Canadian band known as Red Rider. The lyric is from one of their songs called "Walkin' The Fine Line" from their album "Neruda" released in the early 1980s. It's my absolute favorite Red Rider album, as it combines rock, slide guitar, poly/power synths, heady/cerebral lyrics, and a bit of ambiguous spirituality (kinda like the first half dozen Kansas albums before Steve Walsh left and they went into Christian Rock ... totally not my bag).

Some of you may be familiar with their song "Lunatic Fringe", and of course their first MTV release which is a medley of their songs "Light in the tunnel" and "Human Race".

My signature shows up around 1:40 or so in this first video .......








"Knock me down and I'll get back up and I'll get myself back in "The Race" again".


Super inspiring and philosophical words that really helped me during a very difficult time in my life (while I was in the military). Not to mention the super tight drum-n-bass groove the song "Human Race" pumps out.

Just a super bad ass album that really reaches me. Always has. A lot of my own music is heavily inspired by this album ("Neruda"). Even the cover art touches a part of me ... a lone soul in a desert wasteland ... I've felt that way since I was a young teenager. Still do.

Carry on. thumbs up
Rex Coil 7
... was it something I said? ...


hihi hihi
electricanada
Many Indian instruments have a large number of sympathetic strings built in to get tuned reverb. My dilruba has 26 strings and I only bow one of them.

If you don't have a piano, then tune a guitar to an open chord, put a speaker facing it to excite the strings, and record the pickup's output.

Or you could just buy a Rings.
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