Help please with ES-5 midi sync

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orbita
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Help please with ES-5 midi sync

Post by orbita » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:28 pm

Hi,
I've just bought an ES-5 to go with my ES-3 and ES-6.

I've powered it and connected to the ES3.

I've added a SW ES-5 Plugin and External Audio FX routing to 7/8.

If I move the dials on the output section, I see lights move on the ES-5 - Does this means it's wired up correctly?

If I enable Clock in the midi section and start ableton playing no lights flash on the ES-5 and neither my Digitakt or jomox Alphabase pick up the midi clock. Both are receiving midi clock fine from elsewhere. I've tried with Ableton in 44.1 and 48khz.

Should I expect the ES-5 to light up when sending midi clock?

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks, Tom

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Post by os » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:38 pm

It lights up but probably too dimly to see (the messages are very short).

How are you connecting the ES-5 to the MIDI cable?

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Post by orbita » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:00 pm

Ah forgot to mention. I’m using the dj-1000 adapters.

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Post by os » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:25 pm

Can I see your plug-in settings?
If I move the dials on the output section, I see lights move on the ES-5 - Does this means it's wired up correctly?
It's a start. Specifically, the following values should light up 1 LED on the ES-5 at a time:

1
2
4
8
16
32
64
128

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Post by orbita » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:17 pm

ok - I was using the large project I've developed for live performance.

I've now tried with a completely empty project and it works fine.
I just loaded an ES-5 plugin followed by external audio set to 7/8 and my elektron boxes start/stop and sync fine.

Ok so back to my big project which is 8 main audio tracks - and A and B bus, a pre master track and a couple of tracks for routing external inputs, a cue track and one for ES syncing so about 14 tracks. There are a lot of fx plugins on the main 8 tracks - around 80 per track.

I can see that the led is lighting up on the es-5 now that it's not as sunny. I have also noticed that the Elektron boxes sync Lock is activated in the LCD and the tempo is being matched screen. However the elektron sequencer is not starting on this big project in the way it does on the empty project. The transport doesn't seem to be sent.

Now it gets weird, if I start deleting tracks and plugins, it occasionally fires. Once i'm down to 4 tracks it fires about 1 in 3 times. Once i'm at 3 tracks it works every time. Adding and removing some plugins seems to cause it to either work reliably or not.

Even though I have a lot of plugins, many are disabled so CPU is still quite low - the ableton cpu indicator hovers around 30% typically. Overall plugin latency I think is around 30-40ms.

What do you might be going on here? Why would the number of tracks/plugins be affecting sending the transport?

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Post by orbita » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:20 pm

I've also left it a while when it wasn't running and then it's suddenly started and vice versa - where it's been running and then just randomly stopped.

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Post by orbita » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:03 pm

I've also found that increasing the buffer from 128 to 1024 makes it start every time. However, it's still stopping sometimes and losing sync (ends up off the beat).

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Post by orbita » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:07 pm

I've gone back to testing a simple project with just my RME Babyface (normally I have Babyface and Raydat together as aggregate device).

With just babyface, for some reason, it seems to use output 2 for the midi sync even though I selected output 1. Also if I change the first dial to 1 in the Outputs section, it lights up output 2 on the ES-5. This doesn't seem right.

Even with very simple project with 2 tracks and no plugins, it loses sync and very frequently stops.

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Post by os » Wed May 01, 2019 1:41 am

Could it be this? viewtopic.php?t=158305

Or maybe you need to activate the 'Delay Start' and 'Delay Stop' buttons, which were added to work around a bug in Live that sounds similar.

If the latter works, please report it to Ableton and tell them they still haven't fixed this bug.

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Post by orbita » Wed May 01, 2019 6:48 pm

Hi Os,
Yes, activating the Delay Start and Delay Stop has definitely helped get the transport starting at lower buffer sizes. Now on my larger project my elektron boxes are starting reliably at 128samples.

However, after a while of seemingly running great it suddenly skips and ends up being off by part of a beat and then shortly afterwards stops, occasionally restarting.

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Post by orbita » Mon May 06, 2019 4:32 pm

Hi,

So I'm finding the ES5 syncing to my Elektron rytm very unreliable with Ableton. I tried using it at a live jam session the other night and was constantly having to restart it. Laptop or desktop, windows or mac, 44.1 or 48. it's less reliable than just using usb midi with my Elektron Rytm.

It starts every time now that I have the Delay Start and Stop checked but my Rytm often loses sync and just stops randomly.

Would the ESX-8MD be any better?
What about the Usamo?

How does Usamo compare to ERM Multiclock? Any reason why one would work more reliably than others?

Thanks, Tom

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Post by orbita » Mon May 06, 2019 5:27 pm

Also, when it does stop, if I start the elektron sequencer manually, it isn't synced to the beat any more. The clock seems right but it's based of the point I hit start so I have to start it exactly right. Is this expected? Does the Usamo and ESX-8MD operate like this too?

Erm Multiclock and SMD Acme have their own start/stop buttons which start external sequencers at the beginning of the next bar. Can the ES products to this?

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Post by os » Tue May 07, 2019 2:26 am

The ESX-8MD is going to be the most reliable, since it uses an entirely digital connection to the computer.
Erm Multiclock and SMD Acme have their own start/stop buttons which start external sequencers at the beginning of the next bar. Can the ES products to this?
It could be added easily enough.

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Post by orbita » Tue May 07, 2019 4:25 am

os wrote:The ESX-8MD is going to be the most reliable, since it uses an entirely digital connection to the computer.
The ES-5 is digital and that's not working for me - what about the ESX-8MD will make it more reliable than the ES-5?
os wrote:Erm Multiclock and SMD Acme have their own start/stop buttons which start external sequencers at the beginning of the next bar. Can the ES products to this?

It could be added easily enough.
Ok cool - How?

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Post by os » Tue May 07, 2019 1:19 pm

The ES-5-plus-adaptor-cable outputs are not electrically-speaking proper MIDI outputs. The 8MD's outputs are.
Ok cool - How?
By me editing the code.

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