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3-vco per voice polysynth in eurorack!
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Author 3-vco per voice polysynth in eurorack!
helder
Hi,

I dreamt of a 3-VCO-per-voice, 3 or 4 voices polysynth in eurorack format (for flexibility in knob tweaking and patching). I would like to move the frequency of individual vcos while holding a chord for example, kind of what I think is happening in this video at minute 1:54

https://youtu.be/moyciSFA0AE

I think he is holding a 3-note chord, while changing the frequency of each vco-per-voice, effectively moving one of the theee stacked chords in frequency.

Doepfer has lauched poluphonic modules that would be good for this I think so I drafted this 104hp rack (see image below).

Do you think this would work?
I am thinking of using Endorphines Shuttle Control as midi-to-cv interface, to use ios apps for example, because I would like also to be able to pitchbend each note in a chord individually, lind like with the seaboard and other MPE controllers. Do you reckon that would work?

Also, could I use also the shuttle control as the power source for the whole rack?

The polyphonic doepfer vcos seem to be good for this as each has a master section summing the outputs of the four individual vcos, which could thus serve as a vco-per-voice source (one freely movable, in frequency, chord)

Thanks in advance for your ideas.
Plattform
Aaaahhh Polyphonic Modular, It is an obsession for me and I'm happy to see that I'm not alone ! Guinness ftw!

What is done in the video is doable with your system if you have a tune knob on each vco ! But you are going to lack envelopes here (3 for your idea I guess)

I don't know the shuttle control
Dave.ID
This would be incredibly expensive for a 3 voice polysynth that doesn't seem to make use of any of the benefits that eurorack provides. If you have this as one row in a large case with many modulation options and effects and filters then maybe it's worth it. This is going to come out more expensive than a Sequential Prophet, which would surely blow it out the water in every way.
helder
Hey, thank you both for chiming in!

@Plattform: Thanks smile Glad I am not alone either! There is a Doepfer Quad ADSR module in there, that can work fine I think. There is a Tune Knob in a "Master" section in each Quad VCO module, so I think this knob does what happens in the video, no? What do you think?

@Dave.ID: Well, I do have another case with modulation, etc. modules, so I think this is worth it. Furthermore, I do think this is way more flexible than a hardware synth (especially for waht I want to do, which is to be able to freely modulate the frequencies of all osscialltors), plus it has 3-VCOs per voice, instead of two like in the Sequential Prophet, if I am not mistaken...
ckwjr
I have a one vco/voice version:



Keeping the A-111-4 tuned takes a fair amount of time. I'd hate to do three of them every day.
stickman
Modular
Usability
Polyphony

Choose two
helder
ckwjr wrote:
Keeping the A-111-4 tuned takes a fair amount of time. I'd hate to do three of them every day.


Good point. For me this would be a kind of "drone/experimental" machine to play with beating frequencies and play with the interaction of different frequencies, chords, etc. I wouldn't use it everyday I think. Do you think in this case it is fine? How long does it take to tune it and does it drift a lot for a long time? Once it is tuned is it stable?

Thanks.
helder
stickman wrote:
Modular
Usability
Polyphony

Choose two


smile Modular and Polyphony smile

As for usability, for my purposes I think modular would be fine (refer to my last post above)

thanks!!
ckwjr
I don't have enough experience with different VCOs to know what counts as stable and what's not. I'd say my A-111-4 is considerably less stable than my Dixie II or Dixie II+ and that it doesn't hurt to retune them every time I power up (and need them for a patch).

Also in terms of quality, every pot has a different touch. Two of the four are very easy to fine-tune, and two of them are pretty loose. I don't know if that wide variability is pretty run of the mill for Doepfer.

I really like the sound though.
bkbirge
Looks fun. You need more envelopes though. At least one more of the 4 bangers. One set of envelopes for the filter cutoff, and one set for the vcas to get your basic subtractive poly sound. Also you'll definitely be wanting some more utilities, attenuverters for example, go look at Erogenous Tones Levit8, would be good in your setup. I'd probably also add a stereo mixer, like Happy Nerding's Panmix and some noise and ring mod. And some lfo's and sample n holds. And some performance controls. And a couple ALM Beast's Chalkboards to make octave switching per voice, and some precision adders, and more vca's, and and and...
Dead Banana
Voggg
Worth looking at Argos Bleak. Very cool module
Yes Powder
helder wrote:
For me this would be a kind of "drone/experimental" machine to play with beating frequencies and play with the interaction of different frequencies, chords, etc. I wouldn't use it everyday I think.

Buying a module that you don't see yourself using every day is one thing. Buying an entire 104hp row, though? That must be nice…
Never maintain cash savings again
If it's what you want, nothing anyone says here is going to stop you.
To me though, it seems like a lot of money to get a very specialized rack to do something that the MFB 8-voice you originally posted will probably do easier, cheaper, and probably better. Of course the final version of the operating system has yet to be seen, but I be surprised to find out that it doesn't include a Glide function to bend individual notes like you want.
If you think this is really what you want though, you should go for it.
helder
Yes Powder wrote:
helder wrote:
For me this would be a kind of "drone/experimental" machine to play with beating frequencies and play with the interaction of different frequencies, chords, etc. I wouldn't use it everyday I think.

Buying a module that you don't see yourself using every day is one thing. Buying an entire 104hp row, though? That must be nice…
Never maintain cash savings again
If it's what you want, nothing anyone says here is going to stop you.
To me though, it seems like a lot of money to get a very specialized rack to do something that the MFB 8-voice you originally posted will probably do easier, cheaper, and probably better. Of course the final version of the operating system has yet to be seen, but I be surprised to find out that it doesn't include a Glide function to bend individual notes like you want.
If you think this is really what you want though, you should go for it.


Thanks. Actually this is making me think about it a little more and ponder. I will take my time.

One think modular gives is flexibility, and I already have a more "conventional" euro case setup that could interact with this. Aditionally, I like to experiment with microtones, and this gives much more flexibility than a hardware midi synth like the forthcoming MFB poly for example. I could bend or use microtones in individual notes in a chord for example more easily with eurorack I think. I'll think about it.

Price-wise, it is around 2000Eur. The Sequential Prophet someone suggested is 2400Eur...
helder
I still would like to know, for any Endorphines Shuttle Control users, if I could power this complete 104hp rack with the shuttle control internal PSU, and if so how? Would I need a flying bus board, is that it and connect the other modules to it simply?

Thanks in advance.
stickman
helder wrote:
I still would like to know, for any Endorphines Shuttle Control users, if I could power this complete 104hp rack with the shuttle control internal PSU, and if so how? Would I need a flying bus board, is that it and connect the other modules to it simply?

Thanks in advance.


The sc comes with a bus cable but you will likely need a 2nd.

It has a decent power output, to be sure I would use modulargrid to determine the power requirements of your system and compare to the specs in the sc manual.
insoul8
I'll echo what others have said in that i don't think you'll be happy with this for it's intended use and that you would get much more flexibility and economy out of an actual polysynth. An Ensoniq ESQ-1 would be vastly more powerful and playable than this and can be had for just a few hundred dollars. Three digital oscillators per voice with analog filters. Less knobby but a brilliant and underrated synth. Or if you can find a DSI Polyevolver, there is a 4 oscillator per voice knobby synth for you. Also one of the best out there in my opinion.

If you're gonna go with this, it looks like you need more VCA's and modulation and a bigger case. Unless you already have more of that in another case? Care to post what you already have?
stickman
Echoing others, it's kinda like paying the modular premium for the modular cons.

I would get an A4, perfourmer, or matriarch sooner.

Or build something else that happened to have polyphony, but with different oscs/voices. I don't see the point of buying many of the same osc in euro when it's strength is variety / integrated systems.
DSC
If you can integrate more performance features I find it makes it a bit more fun, plus it can cut down on valuable HP, depending how you normal the wiring from the back. That is what i did with three WMD Spectrum's. On the fly wave switching, mutes for each channel, attenuation pots and octave control makes it a lot of fun with less patching duties, IMHO.

helix
ckwjr wrote:
I don't have enough experience with different VCOs to know what counts as stable and what's not. I'd say my A-111-4 is considerably less stable than my Dixie II or Dixie II+ and that it doesn't hurt to retune them every time I power up (and need them for a patch).

Also in terms of quality, every pot has a different touch. Two of the four are very easy to fine-tune, and two of them are pretty loose. I don't know if that wide variability is pretty run of the mill for Doepfer.

I really like the sound though.


I certainly haven't had any noticeable tuning problems with any of my Doepfer oscillators, and the pots are all rock solid, they don't move very quickly but that makes them better for getting precise values i find. Might have got an unlucky module there!
Plattform
"There is a Doepfer Quad ADSR module in there" Exact, I tough it was only VCA !

Yes the master tune for each VCO will give you the same possibility than this precise moment on the video
Plattform
I read the other comments and that's pretty true, you will not have a lot more options than some poly synths, a poly modular is really a plus when it's quite big I think... (like the one on my avatar)
ckwjr
helix wrote:
ckwjr wrote:
I don't have enough experience with different VCOs to know what counts as stable and what's not. I'd say my A-111-4 is considerably less stable than my Dixie II or Dixie II+ and that it doesn't hurt to retune them every time I power up (and need them for a patch).

Also in terms of quality, every pot has a different touch. Two of the four are very easy to fine-tune, and two of them are pretty loose. I don't know if that wide variability is pretty run of the mill for Doepfer.

I really like the sound though.


I certainly haven't had any noticeable tuning problems with any of my Doepfer oscillators, and the pots are all rock solid, they don't move very quickly but that makes them better for getting precise values i find. Might have got an unlucky module there!


I've discussed the A-111-4 elsewhere, overall I'm very satisfied with the module - I wouldn't trade it away for anything except maybe another A-111-4 where all five tuning pots had exactly the same rock solid resistance you're describing.

The new Qu-Bit cord is another great option for four-voice polyphony that eliminates the problem of tuning oscillators individually. If you like wavetable synths. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it since it's still new to me.
helder
stickman wrote:
helder wrote:
I still would like to know, for any Endorphines Shuttle Control users, if I could power this complete 104hp rack with the shuttle control internal PSU, and if so how? Would I need a flying bus board, is that it and connect the other modules to it simply?

Thanks in advance.


The sc comes with a bus cable but you will likely need a 2nd.

It has a decent power output, to be sure I would use modulargrid to determine the power requirements of your system and compare to the specs in the sc manual.


Cool, thanks. When you say I might need a 2nd flying bus cable, do I simply attach this to the provided cable for extension?
insoul8
There's also this. 8 voices, 3 vcos per voice, ~1000€. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moyciSFA0AE
helder
Thank you all for your suggestions. My idea now is to go first for a 2-VCO-per-voice, two Doepfer Quad VCOs instead of 3, and then see.

My problem now is how to set the relative levels of each VCO per voice. So each of the Doepfer Quad VCO modules would be a 4-voice synth (chord), and they would stack on top of eachother (and detuned to taste). I was wondering however how to set the relative levels of each oscialltor in the final mix. Each voice has to be fed into the Quad VCF, and then the VCA, and so the 2 VCOs-per-voice need to be mixed to taste.

I thought of using two doepfer dual crossfader modules and then a slider controller or voltage source knobs. See image below for the alternatives. The 2 VCOs-per voice would feed a crossfader, and the controller will control their relative levels. I would use the same CV to control all crossfaders at the same time. The 4 outputs would then feed the VCF and then the VCA.

Does this sound like it could work? Any other ideas/tips? Thanks.

[/img]
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