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what else is like a looper, compositionally?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Author what else is like a looper, compositionally?
ummo
so i'm enjoying my tc electronic ditto x4 looper pedal, which i combine mostly with the ciat-lonbarde family and was wondering what other tools/devices have a similar impact composition-wise.

i mean, that looping dramatically expands one's sonic palette; vast new landscapes are unlocked, SOS (sound-on-sound) and Frippertronics enable hours of live performance, etc. the effect is an order-of-magnitude more complexity, and beauty.

are there other such techniques/devices that unlock such sonic potential? at first i thought "Delay" but that isn't it, is it. Euclidean Rhythms are one possible answer. The Tonnetz is another. Ervin Wilson's work, perhaps.

of course, one would say "a DAW" or "MIDI" or "a computer" but i was thinking of more hardware/analog/niche solutions...

this is an open-ended question, all opinions/thoughts welcomed. more esoteric ideas welcome too.
Rex Coil 7
Take a look at the Electro Harmonix Super Ego Plus. It's a "freeze" pedal that goes WAY beyond the call of duty. I use one, and my wife also has one she uses with her Little Phatty and EMU Proteus 2500. We both also use phrase loopers (Boss RC-1) in various ways.






Another is the Meris Hedra ... a pitch shifter/delay monster. Make sure to listen to it all the way through. The guitar player gets into some really excellent "com'ping" .... near the end.


kcd06
The EHX SuperEgo+ is a great tool, for monosynths especially. It isnt as useful with polysynths; in that latter case, for me personally, tweaking setting on a waldorf Streichfett (which is, unlike the SuperEgos, polyphonic) produces a similiar timbre as the SuperEgo with much better articulation and control. But, I'm weird.
notmiserlouagain
Know what you mean, for me: electro-acoustical elements, like in Collins´ "Pea Soup", or even just processed musical instruments add something different to the process-

Complex feedback networks a lá Alvin Luthier-

Having an artistic concept that includes surprising and interesting ideas-

Oldie but goldie: Montreal Assembleas CT5 never ceases to surprise-

Just a quick brainstorm 6:17 AM because this is my fav kind of question w00t
ummo
thank you for the pedal suggestions. i was rather thinking of more abstract "systems" of composition than pedals per se.

feedback (which i use in copious amounts) is along the lines of what i was thinking, and notmiserlouagain's suggestion of nicolas collins is perfect, see e.g. his writing on "pea soup": http://www.nicolascollins.com/texts/peasouphistory.pdf

another suggestion: vari-speed. in fact the cocos in the cocoquantus have a form of vari-speed; combined with a looper one has a cv-plus-manually controlled vari-speed.

i guess i would add "read tape op magazine" as an aid to composition.
PhineasFreak
ableton session view
odditymedium
why? how?
GrantB
Have you tried using multiple loopers? Having multiple unsynchronized loops of arbitrary length with their own I/O could be interesting with feedback/SOS.

I wish there were an all-in-one hardware device that had this. I'm having some interesting results with multiple loops on the Zoom R8 but the loops have to be prerecorded and it only has two outputs and no varispeed.
odditymedium
the tc electronic ditto x4 has two loops of arbitrary length, has a "double"/"half" fx that kindof emulates vari speed...

i like it very much
Homepage Englisch
ummo wrote:
thank you for the pedal suggestions. i was rather thinking of more abstract "systems" of composition than pedals per se.

feedback (which i use in copious amounts) is along the lines of what i was thinking, and notmiserlouagain's suggestion of nicolas collins is perfect, see e.g. his writing on "pea soup": http://www.nicolascollins.com/texts/peasouphistory.pdf

another suggestion: vari-speed. in fact the cocos in the cocoquantus have a form of vari-speed; combined with a looper one has a cv-plus-manually controlled vari-speed.

i guess i would add "read tape op magazine" as an aid to composition.


For guitar/keys: I'm using Behringer "mini amp" (actually a small headphone signal splitter) to multilayer effects, esepecially if you're using pitch shifters/harmonizers and delay. I use Eventide Pitch Factor and Count to Five (which is nice as it can double the speed of your melody).

For guitar: Highly compressed/sustained signal which contains a lot of hum/noise even if not played into some sort of feedback creator pedal will give you some sort of audio "sample and hold".

For keys: layering 2 or more synths on the same controller keyboard, one layer polyphonic, one layer monophonic (slightly portamento'd) with last or highest note priority, you'll play chord and melody at the same time, melody might be random-ish but musically related.

As for the microphone feedback, that's something I yet have to investigate smile Thanks for the excellent link!
suboptimal
I'm surprised the Octatrack doesn't get more attention when loopers are discussed, especially since the mk1 is now at a price point where it's competing directly with some of the more expensive looper pedals out there that often are missing some key features that the OT has. OT has a steep learning curve, but my impression is that many of the full-featured loopers are also eccentric in their own way.
MindMachine
ummo
i'd like to steer this thread away from pedal recommendations.

compositional techniques welcome.
notmiserlouagain
ummo wrote:
i'd like to steer this thread away from pedal recommendations.

Nice
ummo wrote:

compositional techniques welcome.

Hard, at some point the compositional technique becomes the art,
and who could tell you how to do that?
I can only share my inspiration.
Did you see the recent singing bowl thread? That´s what I meant with acoustic elements, it fascinates me
Check this feedback piece by Collins


the process is crucial to the end result in a
piece of art(yeah fuck that) piece of work
A little bit of a chance has to be taken to lively up the work
and you have to come up with a good idea in the end.
Fixation on gear should either be avoided or hysterically religious...
GAS to be avoided (pedals!)
/over and heading for the hills now
mahler007
Not a pedal, but rather a Eurorack module, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Make Noise's Morphagene.

At its core, it's a record/playback device (like a looper), but goes light years beyond into the world of splicing and granular synthesis. It can really take a sound of pretty much any length (less than 2 minutes or so) and utterly transform it into an alternate sonic universe.

Agreed with the above statement that it's difficult to talk specific technique, but Morphagene is definitely something you should investigate if the format doesn't throw you.

Cheers,
Andrew
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