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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Pro 2 is officially retired!
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear  
Author Pro 2 is officially retired!
tehyar
In case anyone was on the fence, time's up. hihi

Just saw the news via Facebook. I'm curious to see if they make a successor. This is one of my fav synths of all time.

p.s. sorry, search no worky, couldn't find the old Pro 2 thread.
anselmi
tehyar wrote:
In case anyone was on the fence, time's up. hihi

Just saw the news via Facebook. I'm curious to see if they make a successor. This is one of my fav synths of all time.

p.s. sorry, search no worky, couldn't find the old Pro 2 thread.


very underrated synth...it´s a beast

I only hope they make a Pro-X, that would be the logical replacement and a great synth too
Rex Coil 7
I've always wanted a Pro 2. There is a LOT going on with that thing!
diophantine
Well, guess I've finally got to save up!! MY ASS IS BLEEDING
Sinamsis
Prophet 12 and now this. It's crazy, though I had a love hate relationship with my Prophet 12 when I had it. I think I would really like a Pro 2. Hopefully it means that they have something new and exciting in the works. I'd love to see wavetable poly synth that can scan through the wavetables, and with a filter set similar to the Pro 2's. Who knows, maybe they'll do a take on the Prophet X as a mono synth with some extra bells. I am a HUGE DSI fanboy and the OB6 and Pro 2 are the only DSI synths I've never owned (except for some of the variations of the Mopho). I have a special place for everything Dave Smith has done in the past decade and more. The UI that he started with the Tempest and perfected with the Prophet 12 has been the standard that I judge every other synth by. I feel that Moog took several notes from DSI/Sequential with the One. Anyways, it's sad to see production of beautiful instruments like this cease, but I know he will follow it up with more amazing things.
12eightyfive
At the time it seemed like the Pro 2 was the perfect synth - the architecture of the Prophet 12 with a different (multimode? better?) filter. I got the same 'eh' feeling though everytime I played with one though. Dang it was a well-built synth, beautiful synth. Played every chance I got - Perfect Circuit, must have spent hours in front of the one at Control Voltage in Portland. Never felt that 'gotta have' feeling, at least at any price I saw it at. I'll bet there's something new and amazing coming.
1040df
Amazing synth. Thoughtfully designed. A pure pleasure. Glad I have one in my collection. Hopefully people can still obtain them for a reasonable price.
Christopher Winkels
I've wanted one of these for years, but I've resisted pulling the trigger.

They sell for $2,500 here in Canada, so it was never going to be an impulse buy, and which also means it's going up against offerings that contain significantly more value for money (Prologue 16, System-8, MOXD6, and even Dave's own Rev2 or Prophet-6 desktop) if polyphony matters to you. I'd have though Sequential would've adjusted the price accordingly, but it stubbornly stayed at a place where it I just couldn't justify it to myself.

Which is a shame, because it's insanely playable. Everything feels well positioned and thoughtfully laid out. The performance controls reward a player as much as a tweaker. And the individual articulation on each oscillator within the paraphonic setup was a nice touch. But man, I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

So I'll likely be kicking myself in a couple of years.
Gyroscope
Christopher Winkels wrote:
I've wanted one of these for years, but I've resisted pulling the trigger.

They sell for $2,500 here in Canada, so it was never going to be an impulse buy, and which also means it's going up against offerings that contain significantly more value for money (Prologue 16, System-8, MOXD6, and even Dave's own Rev2 or Prophet-6 desktop) if polyphony matters to you. I'd have though Sequential would've adjusted the price accordingly, but it stubbornly stayed at a place where it I just couldn't justify it to myself.

Which is a shame, because it's insanely playable. Everything feels well positioned and thoughtfully laid out. The performance controls reward a player as much as a tweaker. And the individual articulation on each oscillator within the paraphonic setup was a nice touch. But man, I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

So I'll likely be kicking myself in a couple of years.


If you sometimes come to Montreal I often see them for 2000 or under on Kijiji. I think I paid 1800 for mine.
drowld
I was waiting for the desktop version all along.
Would love a prophet 12 but with pro 2 filters and sequencer Dead Banana

It was a really nice synth indeed
hopefully they follow with v2 but prolly not
Elguapo505
I have one last brand new Pro 2 for sale if anybody wants it! nanners
calaveras
dammit dammit.
rew_
suddenly mono synth is a pretty glaring hole in the DSI line

would guess they're going to release something more akin to a single voice of the Prophet 6

will always remember the Pro 2 as the moment DSI moved away from the Curtis filter, and thus when their synths started to sound really good
onthelees
Damn! they are probably NEVER going to fix the bug I found with the sequencer now... or any of the other bugs reported after the last OS was released. Don't want to imply this isn't a great synth - I love mine and have no plans to sell it. but there were some... quirky aspects, especially with the sequencer and synchronization.
computer controlled
Should have kept mine.
stikygum
It seems too soon to retire it. A lot of people said it would be a future classic and I never dismissed that because I felt it too. Congrats to Dave for making such a synth.

The Pro 2 is one of my favorite interfaces of all time for such a deep synth. It's so well laid out. It's really a fun synth for sound design and playing. Great design, great sound and great usability all in one.
MechaSeb
computer controlled wrote:
Should have kept mine.


+1
though paraphonic mode was frustrating for me at the time (got not poly).
Now, the same in polyphonic 6 voices would be amazing.
KoryB
Hoping for a Pro-X or revamped Evolver!
anselmi
KoryB wrote:
Hoping for a Pro-X or revamped Evolver!


following the DSI/Sequential way or work, I think the Pro-X is the logical step...and I bet they will use the Pro-2 chassis with a different front panel
and if they do all this, I´ll buy it in no time! SlayerBadger! screaming goo yo w00t
SweetNuthin
As a proud owner of a Pro 2, i would loooove a Pro x with two analog Vco and 2 Digital/sample oscillator (analog VCOs combined with sampled Bass guitar mmmmmh), the Prophet x filter instead of the 24db filter of the Pro 2 and some other little stuff into it...

It's already probably the Best mono on the market, but a futuristic version with some of the Prophet x features would be even better.

and also, but thats off topic, a Tempest X love
anselmi
SweetNuthin wrote:
As a proud owner of a Pro 2, i would loooove a Pro x with two analog Vco and 2 Digital/sample oscillator


this would be closer to the mono evolver than the pro-2 though

for me the great thing about the Pro-2 is the paraphony capability, so I´d go with this concept in a Pro-x...4 paraphonic "X" voices would be killer...and a second multimode filter, of course!
calaveras
Am I crazy or wasn't there a module version of the Pro Two? I was searching around and it seems that already nobody has the Pro 2 in stock. And I can't find a module version anywhere. (I really don't have room for another full sized synth even if I can afford it!)
Jason Brock
calaveras wrote:
Am I crazy or wasn't there a module version of the Pro Two?


No module was made.

SweetNuthin wrote:
i would loooove a Pro x with two analog Vco and 2 Digital/sample oscillator


I really love the samples-as-oscillators concept, and I wish I had room for a Prophet-X. But I wonder if DSI would think a mono/paraphonic synth would be useful along with a sample library. I'm skeptical that they would develop such an instrument because most people want polyphony with "realistic" sounds and samples.

Don't get me wrong, I have a Nord Wave and I find monophonic mode to be very useful with samples. But I'm just not sure many other people agree.
anselmi
Jason Brock wrote:
calaveras wrote:
Am I crazy or wasn't there a module version of the Pro Two?


No module was made.

SweetNuthin wrote:
i would loooove a Pro x with two analog Vco and 2 Digital/sample oscillator


I really love the samples-as-oscillators concept, and I wish I had room for a Prophet-X. But I wonder if DSI would think a mono/paraphonic synth would be useful along with a sample library. I'm skeptical that they would develop such an instrument because most people want polyphony with "realistic" sounds and samples.

Don't get me wrong, I have a Nord Wave and I find monophonic mode to be very useful with samples. But I'm just not sure many other people agree.


well, for just "polyphony and realistic samples" you got a lot of workstations, and "polyphony, samples and analog filters" is why the Prophet X exists...it covers people that want this kind of functionality

but a Pro-X would be a different kind of synth, just as the Pro-2 is different from the Prophet 12...it´s not a keyboardist instrument but a sound design one

4-note paraphony with 2 different filters is a great concept in an instrument like the Pro-2, and it would be great if them port the sample playback engine of the PX to a smaller, more focused in synthesis instrument
dubonaire
With all the new and interesting FPGA synths coming I wonder if this is something Dave Smith is looking at.
Sinamsis
dubonaire wrote:
With all the new and interesting FPGA synths coming I wonder if this is something Dave Smith is looking at.


Very good point, though TBH, I don't totally understand how FPGA differs from DSP from a practical aspect. I've only briefly read on it to be honest. But I do wonder if it's something that is novel only in theory, but in application is indistinguishable from DSP. I'm not saying this is the case, but the cynic in me always questions these things. The FPGA based UDO Super 6 seems awesome, but I can't say it's because it's FPGA. Haha, I think there's a good chance that the nuances are lost on me.

Regardless, I'm sure whatever Sequential come out with next (and I do think they'll have something to replace this synth), it will be wonderful.

And as an aside, despite being a DSI fanboy, I briefly owned a Tempest and hated it. It would be interesting to see them revisit this, but it would have to be fairly compelling for me to take the plunge. I was not one of those early adopter who feel they were short changed by DSI because they never implemented sample import. I just couldn't stand the workflow, particularly sample browsing. The Prophet X on the other hand is a joy to work with.
dubonaire
Sinamsis wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
With all the new and interesting FPGA synths coming I wonder if this is something Dave Smith is looking at.


Very good point, though TBH, I don't totally understand how FPGA differs from DSP from a practical aspect. I've only briefly read on it to be honest. But I do wonder if it's something that is novel only in theory, but in application is indistinguishable from DSP. I'm not saying this is the case, but the cynic in me always questions these things. The FPGA based UDO Super 6 seems awesome, but I can't say it's because it's FPGA. Haha, I think there's a good chance that the nuances are lost on me.


The basic aspect is the FPGAs can be a lot faster and everything can be done within the FPGA. And if you use an FPGA you don't really need to make something just a monosynth.

This is what Novation says about the Peak:

Quote:
Central to Peak is the use of a high-powered processor component called a Field Programmable Gate Array (FPGA). In contrast to traditional DSP chips, which often need to run in pairs or quads, the FPGA is a single processor on which many functions can run — from oscillators to the modulation matrix. The key benefit to an FPGA is that it runs at a much higher rate than DSP-based technology, and this has a direct impact on the clarity of sound.

Each of Peak’s eight voices has an independent oversampling digital-to-analogue converter (DAC). These DAC’s are oversampling at over 24MHz (24 million times per second), using a simple RC (resistor-capacitor) filter on their output in the analogue domain. In itself this is not new technology, but their integration inside the FPGA has enabled their design to be extended to enable optimum waveform synthesis. Because other virtual synths use discrete ‘off the shelf’ DAC chips, which are restricted to running at sample rates of either 48kHz or perhaps 96kHz, they often have aliasing issues, especially when synthesising higher frequencies. Peak’s ability to generate waveforms at the oversampling frequency — up to 512 times the traditional rate — ensures that Peak’s waveforms are pure at all frequencies, free from digital artifacts no matter how aggressively the pitch is modulated.
Sinamsis
dubonaire wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
With all the new and interesting FPGA synths coming I wonder if this is something Dave Smith is looking at.


Very good point, though TBH, I don't totally understand how FPGA differs from DSP from a practical aspect. I've only briefly read on it to be honest. But I do wonder if it's something that is novel only in theory, but in application is indistinguishable from DSP. I'm not saying this is the case, but the cynic in me always questions these things. The FPGA based UDO Super 6 seems awesome, but I can't say it's because it's FPGA. Haha, I think there's a good chance that the nuances are lost on me.


The basic aspect is the FPGAs can be a lot faster and everything can be done within the FPGA.

This is what Novation says about the Peak:

Quote:
Central to Peak is the use of a high-powered processor component called a Field Programmable Gate Array (FPGA). In contrast to traditional DSP chips, which often need to run in pairs or quads, the FPGA is a single processor on which many functions can run — from oscillators to the modulation matrix. The key benefit to an FPGA is that it runs at a much higher rate than DSP-based technology, and this has a direct impact on the clarity of sound.

Each of Peak’s eight voices has an independent oversampling digital-to-analogue converter (DAC). These DAC’s are oversampling at over 24MHz (24 million times per second), using a simple RC (resistor-capacitor) filter on their output in the analogue domain. In itself this is not new technology, but their integration inside the FPGA has enabled their design to be extended to enable optimum waveform synthesis. Because other virtual synths use discrete ‘off the shelf’ DAC chips, which are restricted to running at sample rates of either 48kHz or perhaps 96kHz, they often have aliasing issues, especially when synthesising higher frequencies. Peak’s ability to generate waveforms at the oversampling frequency — up to 512 times the traditional rate — ensures that Peak’s waveforms are pure at all frequencies, free from digital artifacts no matter how aggressively the pitch is modulated.


Nice. I believe I have read that aliasing is less, which makes sense now. Ha, I personally like aliasing, but I understand why others do not. And I guess it's nice that it's a more efficient technology. I have an Antelope interface, and they love to advertise the FPGA based plugins... I can't say they sound any better than the DSP based UAD plugins haha. But there's a lot of variables there, of course. But it's made me balk a little bit every time I hear FPGA. In this application it very much makes sense.

So a little more on topic, with the Prophet 12 gone, and now Pro 2, I really feel they must be getting ready for something else. I guess the Prophet X could be looked at as the direct descendant of the Prophet X, but at best it's a cousin. It's a very different philosophy and architecture. They've had a wavetable based synth in their lineup for over 15 years now. If they came out with a polyphonic wavetable synth that allow import of user waves, or at least more options, and with different filters (PX filters would be fine) I would say it would be a big improvement for me. The Pro 2, however, I'm not sure how you'd improve on that. I mean, I'm sure there are small things. But over all, even with current offerings, I feel like it's a very compelling machine.
thetwlo
dubonaire wrote:
With all the new and interesting FPGA synths coming I wonder if this is something Dave Smith is looking at.

I doubt it, he deals in chips, this was a very specialized synth, and many balked at the price for not being poly. He put everything he thought should be in a mono.
It's not for many, but it's likely the best synth he made. It's the "minimoog" of today. (of course not in sound)
dubonaire
thetwlo wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
With all the new and interesting FPGA synths coming I wonder if this is something Dave Smith is looking at.

I doubt it, he deals in chips, this was a very specialized synth, and many balked at the price for not being poly. He put everything he thought should be in a mono.
It's not for many, but it's likely the best synth he made. It's the "minimoog" of today. (of course not in sound)


Well I wouldn't be too sure. No one expected the Prophet X.

I always wanted to get a Pro 2, I just can't get it in the country I live in and shipping is too much.
SweetNuthin
anselmi wrote:
SweetNuthin wrote:
As a proud owner of a Pro 2, i would loooove a Pro x with two analog Vco and 2 Digital/sample oscillator


this would be closer to the mono evolver than the pro-2 though

for me the great thing about the Pro-2 is the paraphony capability, so I´d go with this concept in a Pro-x...4 paraphonic "X" voices would be killer...and a second multimode filter, of course!


well but wouldn't be cool to have a 4 voice paraphonic synth with every voice different? i don't know how musical it would be, but it would be really funny
anselmi
SweetNuthin wrote:
anselmi wrote:
SweetNuthin wrote:
As a proud owner of a Pro 2, i would loooove a Pro x with two analog Vco and 2 Digital/sample oscillator


this would be closer to the mono evolver than the pro-2 though

for me the great thing about the Pro-2 is the paraphony capability, so I´d go with this concept in a Pro-x...4 paraphonic "X" voices would be killer...and a second multimode filter, of course!


well but wouldn't be cool to have a 4 voice paraphonic synth with every voice different? i don't know how musical it would be, but it would be really funny


I´d love this trick with arpeggiators, you know, the old mono/poly thing, but also like block chords and stabs so I´d prefer sample-based generators where you can load ANY sound and then perform the same trick at the cost of just leave out analog oscillators

but, if they keep the Prophet-X architecture intact in a Pro-X, then you´ll have a sample based engine AND the modelled oscillators available at the same time, per voice, so I think this should cover what you want easily
h4ndcrafted
Have the sales been good, could it be it just wasn’t selling anymore ?
dubonaire
h4ndcrafted wrote:
Have the sales been good, could it be it just wasn’t selling anymore ?


Yeah I presume for most synths the sales curves have a big peak then a long tail.

There is also quite a lot of competition for monosynths even if it was paraphonic.
anselmi
dubonaire wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:
Have the sales been good, could it be it just wasn’t selling anymore ?


Yeah I presume for most synths the sales curves have a big peak then a long tail.

There is also quite a lot of competition for monosynths even if it was paraphonic.


yep
at the time it was released there was very little competition...even now it´s hard to find a synth with such a wide range of features...but now, for the price of a new Pro-2 you have a lot of stuff that can be combined together to bring a lot of options, mostly cheap semi-modular and hybrid stuff

a Minilogue XD or even a Microfreak, combined with an analog semi-modular and some nice pedals and you have a killer setup for much less than the retail price of the Pro-2...maybe you don´t tick all the areas but I´m sure that with a little research you could

a Pro-2 replacement product today should be something groundbreaking that packs a lot of features into a solid synth that would be hard to find otherwise, like the Pro-2 was when released

I think that the sample-based engine and nice analog filters of the PX could be the way to go...it´s a very attractive package but maybe the format is not for everybody, and some of this flavor reborn into a more compact synth should find a place in lot of studios
wiperactive
Just had a thought... it would be nice if the potential follow-up had a sequencer and dynamics addressable filter bank as part of its armoury similar to that in the new Flame unit.
h4ndcrafted
anselmi wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:
Have the sales been good, could it be it just wasn’t selling anymore ?


Yeah I presume for most synths the sales curves have a big peak then a long tail.

There is also quite a lot of competition for monosynths even if it was paraphonic.


yep
at the time it was released there was very little competition...even now it´s hard to find a synth with such a wide range of features...but now, for the price of a new Pro-2 you have a lot of stuff that can be combined together to bring a lot of options, mostly cheap semi-modular and hybrid stuff

a Minilogue XD or even a Microfreak, combined with an analog semi-modular and some nice pedals and you have a killer setup for much less than the retail price of the Pro-2...maybe you don´t tick all the areas but I´m sure that with a little research you could

a Pro-2 replacement product today should be something groundbreaking that packs a lot of features into a solid synth that would be hard to find otherwise, like the Pro-2 was when released

I think that the sample-based engine and nice analog filters of the PX could be the way to go...it´s a very attractive package but maybe the format is not for everybody, and some of this flavor reborn into a more compact synth should find a place in lot of studios


Yes, a cut down, or more mono-centric version of the PX would be a no brainer for me. I have opted for a montage/modx over the X because that is too many eggs in one basket for me frankly. Plus the sample manipulation is better, but you lose the analogue filter and sample space, not to mention the more esoteric sample library.

Sadly you can’t modulate sample start on the yamahas, can you do that on the X ?
WilDFire
So for those of us who have drooled over one for years...do you think prices will go down or up on the secondhand market?
dubonaire
WilDFire wrote:
So for those of us who have drooled over one for years...do you think prices will go down or up on the secondhand market?


That could depend on if and what Sequential replace it with.
Panason
I'm really old school. Will Dave Smith make a comeback with a Patriarch, as the natural follow-up to the Prophet and a response to moog's "diversity" bollox?

maybe a Grandfather too. lol
dkcg
WilDFire wrote:
So for those of us who have drooled over one for years...do you think prices will go down or up on the secondhand market?


I paid about half retail for mine, keep your eyes peeled. I see them listed for around $1400-1500, but haven't seen any sell for that price, seems like actual going rate is around $1200. I paid $1050, I wasn't sure about it, but grabbed cash, drove for an hour in pouring rain, and came home with it. Used, but more like open box "new" condition. I lucked out, haven't seen any that cheap since.

All the CV outputs makes it very tempting to get back into euro.
drowld
anselmi wrote:

a Pro-2 replacement product today should be something groundbreaking that packs a lot of features into a solid synth that would be hard to find otherwise, like the Pro-2 was when released


Yes that's mainly the reason why i and some other aren't getting one. Also it was never made in a desktop/tabletop format.
There are loads of mono and for this price you can buy either many good monos and a seq or a nice eurorack selection of modules which may get you there.

I would buy a P2x in desktop format. Like a p12 with the x filters and the p2 seq. Even if it was mono/para. Even if there was only 1 filters for all the voice
The seq seemed really nice on the p2. And p12 oscillators flexibility is also really nice
dubonaire
drowld wrote:
anselmi wrote:

a Pro-2 replacement product today should be something groundbreaking that packs a lot of features into a solid synth that would be hard to find otherwise, like the Pro-2 was when released


Yes that's mainly the reason why i and some other aren't getting one. Also it was never made in a desktop/tabletop format.
There are loads of mono and for this price you can buy either many good monos and a seq or a nice eurorack selection of modules which may get you there.

I would buy a P2x in desktop format. Like a p12 with the x filters and the p2 seq. Even if it was mono/para. Even if there was only 1 filters for all the voice
The seq seemed really nice on the p2. And p12 oscillators flexibility is also really nice


WTF are you talking about?
drowld
dubonaire wrote:

WTF are you talking about?


wot dude ?
dubonaire
drowld wrote:
dubonaire wrote:

WTF are you talking about?


wot dude ?


Sorry! Could not understand your post last night. Guinness ftw!
WilDFire
I imagine Dave will come out with a 6 voice poly with a mod matrix out the wazoo and a big sequencer as well because no other product interfaces with modular like the pro2.

The sad thing is the price point seems to be 2k or above for anything he makes these days, but hey, R&D costs money...
calaveras
It'd be neat if they split the difference and did something like the Mopho X4 with CV out.
Mostly I just like smaller synths. The bigger ones take up so much space it's tough to keep buying them.
anselmi
WilDFire wrote:
I imagine Dave will come out with a 6 voice poly with a mod matrix out the wazoo and a big sequencer as well because no other product interfaces with modular like the pro2.


4 voice paraphony based on the Prophet-X engine is my guess. With twin filters, sequencer and CV outs, just like the Pro-2. This should be more logical than a 6 voice synth that could cannibalize their other 6 and 8 voice products

also: Dave always reshape his own technology into different formats, so once developed, the Prophet X sample engine should go into different products easily...this could be the case

and maybe it´s time for a new groovebox based on the same sample-playback idea and with analog filters too...like a Tempest Rev2 or something
phats
I loved the spec of the pro-2, particularly the cv features and filters, but not the overall sound.

If it had 1-2 prophet voices, choice of curtis or sem filter, all the seq+cv stuff would've been great.
nolongerhuman
I’d love a 4 voice cut down Prophet X, but I think the 8dio aspect of the Prophet X has been such a pain that I don’t know if they will release more hardware with that set up. I hope they do personally, but give the damn thing a physical input.

What I’d love to see is a 2-4 voice 37-49 key full on wavetable synth with both filter options and the distortion/bitcrushing from the Pro 2.
Buttons ARE toys
I wonder when they'll announce the new thing. Does anyone know if DSI have typically waited for events like NAMM to announce new instruments, or do they just do it whenever they're ready?
dubonaire
Buttons ARE toys wrote:
I wonder when they'll announce the new thing. Does anyone know if DSI have typically waited for events like NAMM to announce new instruments, or do they just do it whenever they're ready?


DSI is Sequential now. I was just going back through its news and it seems to do a first announcement around January and June most often, so it looks like that could be just before NAMM. And then it seems to start shipping them a few months after.
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