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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Who won’t survive Behringer?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next [all]

Who is going to be culled?
Moog
5%
 5%  [ 5 ]
Roland
10%
 10%  [ 9 ]
Waldorf
3%
 3%  [ 3 ]
Korg
3%
 3%  [ 3 ]
Sequential
7%
 7%  [ 6 ]
Oberheim
13%
 13%  [ 11 ]
Malekko
10%
 10%  [ 9 ]
Makenoise
3%
 3%  [ 3 ]
Other (detail below)
41%
 41%  [ 35 ]
Total Votes : 84

Author Who won’t survive Behringer?
calaveras
Behringer moving into the synth market is something beyond personal preferences. This is not as subjective as analog vs digital, or Fender scale length vs Gibson. Behringer’s move into this market is going to affect the entire business, especially if they continue to release all the synths and beat boxes they have teased and demo-ed.
There are a finite number of people out there buying synths. Sure a lot of them are pros or middle aged guys with home office hone studios that are only going to be happy with specific brands. But the MI has always thrived on the backs of the young musicians. The brokest, most idealistic, most willing to spend on impractical gear (and the easiest to part with cash).
For them they have no sentimental attachments to brands that filed chapter 11 before they were born. Behringer Oberheim or DSI Oberheim? The answer is obvious when you spend more than half your income on rent.
I’m confident that Behringer will sell massive numbers of these synths and beat boxes. And that money will not be spent elsewhere.
I’d characterize this as similar to the FM synth apocalypse that killed off the analog dinosaurs of the 80s.
The question is, who is economically vulnerable?

Immediately Moog, Sequential and Waldorf come to mind. They all have a history of fading away and coming back. They all are weighted towards domestic production of high end synths. They are also not as diverse in their products as Roland, Yamaha and Korg. Though Waldorf has a decent amount of softsynths.
JohnLRice
I don't think it will necessarily kill off any of the long established major brands since there will always be people willing to pay more for items from the "original" brand. (generic and "store brands" haven't killed off major brands at the grocery store, although those cheaper brands don't usually taste as good or work as well etc). I could see the monster conglomerate that Behringer has become buying out certain synth brands when possible though? They have been doing this with a lot of pro audio etc companies and the bigger they become the more power they have to buy out more. As of May 2015, Music Group's portfolio includes:
Midas
Klark Teknik
Behringer
Bugera
Eurocom
Turbosound
TC Electronic
TC-Helicon
Lake
Lab.gruppen
Tannoy
TC Applied Technologies
CoolAudio

In the modular world the companies most threatened by loss of sales once Behringer brings out a pile of super inexpensive modules might just be the mid sized companies that are mainly just making basic bread and butter modules. Larger/well established companies that have unique offerings and/or have a certain mystique about their products will likely do fine, maybe even see an increased amount of sales as the influx of cheap modules and visibility of "modular" increases? The tiny companies that are single person operated where they have a day job doing something else and just make a couple modules in their spare time probably wont be affected negatively either. Maybe the most threatened would be the medium small makers that don't offer much in the way of unique modules and have recently quit their day jobs to do modular full time and have a family to support? Hard enough to do anytime but a company like that might not survive a sudden avalanche of inexpensive modules from a major brand name?
Panason


Yamaha is too big to fall. I think the rest will survive, perhaps by selling cheap junk (e.g. Korg, keyring drum machine coming soon).
The American companies will have enough business with their loyal American fans. No coastal hipster will be seen dead with a Behringer when they can sport a Moog. Rich people in general will not buy Behringer, and it is rich people who now keep the hardware scene going. The proles just use their laptop with cracked Ableton and cracked plugins.

Can't see Oberheim going on for much longer regardless of what Behringer does.
sizone
maybe oberheim. have they released anything other than the sem reissue?

having one product on the market that will be cloned at half the price could be a finisher.

I don't really see any overlap between dsi and berhinger, but depending on how deep the us/china trade and tariff wars go, I could see that forcing them to shut their doors. same with malekko and everyone else who doesn't have global, diversified corporate backing.
ersatzplanet
Many Eurorack makers are beyond the standard synth modules now. Not many making standard VCOs, VCFs, VCAs, or EGs but are making much more exotic modules instead. Uli will probably never make those because the sale volumes are not as high as he would want. This guy is thinking high sellers. I would think he would offer pre-built systems. I imagine the modular rigs he will be making will revolve around certain key functions. He will make a MIDI powered voice system with bog standard modules and a MIDI>CV converter and maybe a keyboard (it will be a MIDI keyboard too). He will probably make a sequencer rig that will have a step or knob sequencer and a voice built around it to be the modular equivalent to a old TB-303. Then he may do a modular drum machine with a rhythm sequencer and some TR style drum voice modules. These could be commercial and decent selling rigs. Sort of like the latest Teenage Engineering modular. The makers of drum voice modules may have something to worry about, but the makers of exotic modules like MakeNoise probably will never have to worry about clones. For Uli it is all about volume of units sold, and covering all the well known bases. I am not familiar with his whole line, but has he ever made anything that was exotic? That you couldn't point to a half dozen makers making the same thing at a higher price?

If he were to brazenly clone anything exotic that was currently in production, I would bet it would be the Music Easel, no hard to get parts, nice form factor. He could easily sell it for half the price and make a big profit. People longing for a ARP2500, AKS or VCS3 can forget about it until some chinese company comes out with a cheap pin and slide matrix.
Koekepan
I think that the big story here is that the whole Music Group is enabling people who want to get into hardware to do so faster, cheaper and at functionally acceptable quality.

The hardware/software horse has been beaten to a bloody stain, and Panason is on the money about cracked software (which is so unnecessary; there's so much free software out there that can make mind-blowing music very well), but given that the thread is about the hardware manufacturers, it really boils down to a question of which manufacturers have a target market that is not particularly cost-sensitive, or a product that Uli's Elves either can not or will not rejig for the world.

So what don't they really do?

Workstations. Anything that you'd really call a compositional tool, or a studio master.

Think about it: you can use Music Group to stack up all sorts of synths, run effects, mix the sounds and generally go nuts, but your sequencing options seem to have to come from elsewhere. The cheapest workstation-type device that I can think of, which would be Uli's competition in this sense, might come from Casio.

I'm also not familiar with all the products, of course, but I can't think of an audio workstation equivalent in them.

So I think that KORG, Zoom, Tascam and Casio have niches that Uli has yet to touch.
nectarios
I also believe that there are always going to be people who want to splash out for originals/more exotic/expensive stuff and the companies that provide such gear, will not be affected by Behringer.

Even if the Boog was 100% spot on with a Minimoog, it would not make a difference to all the loyal Moog fans.
They want Moog products in their studios.

The people that will buy Behringer are (mostly) the ones that would not buy the expensive stuff anyway, for what ever reason.

So I think all the big companies are going to be fine.

But anyone who is making "simple" stuff, might be affected and will have to survive the first wave(s) of Behringer products.
GuyaGuy
calaveras wrote:

if they continue to release all the synths and beat boxes they have teased and demo-ed.


So far Behringer has mostly proven that they can make more CAD mock ups than any other synth company. Even if they do produce all of the clones it won’t mean the end of another company. ARP didn’t kill Moog, for example. And Make Noise and Verbos didn’t bankrupt Buchla. In fact it’s not a revolution like FM synthesis. It’s more of a reaction to the market—like Roland introducing poly synths to compete with the Prophet 5. Roland could do it cheaper and on a larger scale like Behringer can now, but part of that is through corner-cutting.

It may, however, cause those companies to focus on other things. Rather than make more basic synth engines there may be more of a focus on firmware possibilities, UI, hybrid structures, etc. We are already seeing this with UDO, DSI’s Pro and X series, Elektron sequencing, etc.
RickKleffel
It does not seem certain to me that a Third Extinction is to hand. Instead, it seems quite possible that rather than Death, the Behringer spore might just as easily inspire life. Get in cheap with some decent knock-offs and you might find a taste for better-built, and most importantly, original gear. The RYK Triad might have to up their game, as the sort of thing that they make on the unexciting side of life will be a lot less attractive/necessary to everyone in the market.

I was told many times that I'd never want a drum machine/sequencer like the Linn 9000 when they were current, they'd be replaced by a computer program. And while you can duplicate those functions on a computer, I'm keeping my many sequencers/synths/drum machines.

We're often told that today's tech will make yesterdays oboslete. But even in our wireless world, there are still plenty of cables. Video did not kill the radio star. Rather, reverse has come to pass, at least for the moment, until that changes over again.
CF3
People will always be willing to pay for unobtainium. If someone thinks paying 5x as much will make them cooler, they’ll do it. Exhibit A: the vintage synth market.

But, I voted other. The only person this potentially hurts is Behringer themselves. Those margins have to be razor thin.
Funky40
Uli and Behringer would become dangerous if they´d begun to act "creative" and progressive.
as long they don´t do, will others keep their niche.


i personally have created new gear concepts and drawn some things to paper which led to very interesting insights and new ideas.
i exactly know what kind of synths could be built today !
some stuff is *completly* overlooked by ANY synth maker......some of these overlooked things are not in the fancy area and do not requeire big CPUs etc. etc. , and could have been donne since years........but they don´t Do !!!


This creates a gap that could be filled.
And this creates a quite dramatically dangerous situation for the old etablished Synth guys who are oversleeping everything by themself.
my opinion
Panason
GuyaGuy wrote:

So far Behringer has mostly proven that they can make more CAD mock ups than any other synth company.


It goes further than that. They have fans who will do the mockups for free!
(someone posted this on GS)


If only Mehringer were that daring... but I doubt you could cram all that in that enclosure.. hyper
Joe.
Thread cleaned up, all the misogynistic posts deleted.

I really hope Uli makes a Behringer Euro forum, and it becomes the place where all the cool kids hang out.
thispoison
Joe. wrote:
Thread cleaned up, all the misogynistic posts deleted.

I really hope Uli makes a Behringer Euro forum, and it becomes the place where all the cool kids hang out.


With the greatest of respect, the dignity of the first sentence is somewhat undermined by the imbalanced personal agenda of the second. Dead Banana
adam
didn't realise they'd bought tannoy, the monsters
powertran
I think it's amazing what Behringer are doing now. That said I'm not that particular to synths that require firmware upgrades, or even have the need to talk to it in the first place.
UltraViolet
I am going to make a prediction. A year from now, no one will care about Behringer wiping out the analog market.
tioJim
calaveras wrote:
But the MI has always thrived on the backs of the young musicians.


But aren't they all rocking software? Behringer have a big fat zero in that sector.
anselmi
wow...really?

so much fear for this guy...I think he really loves to play the villain and some people love to have a villain as a savior





next in forums... hihi

Sir Ruff
Jesus, are people so desperate for content that we are resorting to predicting the market viability of companies based on the largely non-existent products another one? This is peak-level GS zero-content speculation. Why don’t you go post this nonsense over there?
Chopper
Is this thread for real?
Panason
Reality is just another word, especially these days.

Funky40
Sir Ruff wrote:
Jesus, are people so desperate for content that we are resorting to predicting the market viability of companies based on the largely non-existent products another one? This is peak-level GS zero-content speculation. Why don’t you go post this nonsense over there?

Jesus, and your post is entirely destructive from the spirit in it.
But you shurely thought its not, right ?
can´t tell you a place where to go with yours........i don´t hang out there lol
authorless
Behringer's modules will sell well at first, but once people realize they aren't instant gratification interest will drop pretty quick.

I mean, their Boss pedal clones certainly put a hurt on Roland. lol
shreddoggie
None of us will survive - it is like a cancer, it will consume all until it kills the thing it lives upon.

I would quip, "Mark my words" but we will all be gone so we won't be here to see how accurate this forecast is, but I be telling you - its on the money, inescapable, like gravity.
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