rant: Stupid CGS... grr.

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wetterberg
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rant: Stupid CGS... grr.

Post by wetterberg » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:51 pm

right, I HAVE to get this off my chest:

I find that PCBs should be designed to be as SQUARE as possible!

Why on earth would anybody design a pcb that is 1" by 6" ?!?!? Ridiculously hard to place in a Euro-format case.

I love the designs, though - everyone should do 'em.

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Post by neandrewthal » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:00 pm

I like 'em :razz: It means I can fit 7 in a row behind one of my big bad panels, without making a sandwich.
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Post by consumed » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:03 pm

the 'euro' versions are more square.
i think the idea of the long pcbs was to make DIY-serge easy and shallow.

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Post by Moog$FooL$ » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:04 pm

i'm pretty sure Ken Stone designed most of his stuff for MOTM format & not frac or euro.

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Post by fluxmonkey » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:12 pm

consumed wrote:i think the idea of the long pcbs was to make DIY-serge easy and shallow.
that's my understanding as well. i believe there are also some electronic design advantages to longer skinnier boards: in some cases, making it easier to isolate signals and prevent interactions between sections of the circuit.

i have the same issues mounting in frac format... but it is completely worth it to get these fantastic designs, dirt cheap. ken stone is a sdiy saint in my book.
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Post by wetterberg » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:20 pm

fluxmonkey wrote:ken stone is a sdiy saint in my book.
as is he in mine.

Alright, I'll throw it out there: How should one mount two Utility LFO pcbs in euro? It's 1" by 6".

The only "proper" way I see of doing it is rounding up some more CGS pcbs and mounting them parallel to the mounting rails; length-wise.

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Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:24 pm

Aren't the Elby ones laid out for easy Euro action?
He makes a CGS - Utility LFO.

I was thinking the same thing about going lengthwise (horizontal) with some of the Bridechamber CGS PCBs.
They are setup for MOTM, so if you do board mounted pots on a Frac it pretty much has to be like that.
19" racks might be another way to go.

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Post by wetterberg » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:36 pm

Cat-A-Tonic wrote:Aren't the Elby ones laid out for easy Euro action?
He makes a CGS - Utility LFO.

I was thinking the same thing about going lengthwise (horizontal) with some of the Bridechamber CGS PCBs.
They are setup for MOTM, so if you do board mounted pots on a Frac it pretty much has to be like that.
19" racks might be another way to go.
yes, the Panther series has very few of the CGS designs, and one is the Utility LFO... But I want a PCB and matching component kit - not faceplate and hardware - so I'll still be going with the original design, I'll just have to find a way to make things fit - or riddle the bottom of my case with CGS brackets, hehe.

It's pretty symptomatic of the whole scene, though - the new Appendage design on Electro Music will be 20"x10" - I think even a lot of large format peeps will have trouble placing that board anywhere. Whereas intelligent designs like the AFG or the Harvestman boards are nicely stacked, making it possible to fit them almost anywhere, were they diy projects, I think.

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Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:50 pm

CGS758 - PCB Set A$33.00
A set of Panther PCBs as used in the CGS758 module.

CGS58 - Utility LFO Component Kit A$9.00
+ A$9.00 if you get the long PCB.
CGS58 - Utility LFO Hardware Kit A$35.00

CGS758 - Utility LFO Kit A$148.00 (complete panther kit)

Complete kit of components including PCBs and Front Panel for the Utility LFO

The orginal design is definitely cheaper to build, but if you want the convenient format I don't see why you couldn't get a component kit and a panther PCB.
His panels do tend to be a bit spacious in contrast with The functional density of other Euro stuff.
I can definitely understand wanting to do your own panel.
the new Appendage design on Electro Music will be 20"x10" - I think even a lot of large format peeps will have trouble placing that board anywhere.
I'm sure it will be well worth it to make a standalone box for such an awesome ribbon controller.

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Post by wetterberg » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:54 pm

yeah, I want to do my own panel, and since the original is one pcb, and the Panther kit is (at least?) two pcbs, the components from the original kit won't match etc.

I know I'll get BOMs, but it's just... not the same. I'm too spaced out to make long lists of components and order them like that. :doh:

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Re: rant: Stupid CGS... grr.

Post by 3vcos » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:33 pm

Look over Ken Stone's site. Notice all the Serge info? Ya, the CGS pcbs are the same size as Serge PCBs and are meant to be in systems with serge synths. No mystery there.


[quote="wetterberg"]right, I HAVE to get this off my chest:

I find that PCBs should be designed to be as SQUARE as possible!

Why on earth would anybody design a pcb that is 1" by 6" ?!?!? Ridiculously hard to place in a Euro-format case.

I love the designs, though - everyone should do 'em.[/quote]

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Post by Gordon Cole » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:20 pm

:ghost:
Last edited by Gordon Cole on Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Gordon Cole » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:21 pm

:ghost:
Last edited by Gordon Cole on Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: rant: Stupid CGS... grr.

Post by wetterberg » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:30 am

3vcos wrote:Look over Ken Stone's site. Notice all the Serge info? Ya, the CGS pcbs are the same size as Serge PCBs and are meant to be in systems with serge synths. No mystery there.
yeah, we've been over that ;)
The fact remains that the CGS designs are the most popular across ALL platforms, due to their excellent designs, so it must be a problem TONS of people are struggling with, compounding the issue.

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Post by consumed » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:20 pm

ken has enough interesting circuits -- why not set them up in their own rack?
it sure would be easier than trying to stuff them into 3u, although metalbox does a fine job of it if you dont mind the pcbs running deep.

i think a 4u diy rack would be perfect for cgs pcbs and you could go really shallow too. use some motm rack rails ($59/pair) and a blacet 500mA 15v psu ($99). you could probably put 3 1x6" pcbs behind a 2u (3.5") panel comfortably.

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Post by synthetic » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:56 pm

The long/skinny boards are no picnic for MOTM format either.

Image

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Post by consumed » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:48 pm

synthetic wrote:The long/skinny boards are no picnic for MOTM format either.
my gated comparator looks kinda like that. this is why im starting to move away from using prefab brackets that stand the pcb on the short end. id really like to see 6" brackets that run vertically. but for now im using tiny L brackets and screwing through the front panel on all my newer builds (where pot mounting is not possible).

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Post by Kwote » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:59 pm

consumed wrote:im using tiny L brackets and screwing through the front panel on all my newer builds (where pot mounting is not possible).
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Post by Roycie Roller » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:27 pm

synthetic, i haven't seen that kind of wiring before- is that an old power cord you've cut up & recycled (with the grey plastic sleeve)?

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Post by synthetic » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:42 pm

That was some multicore wire I bought somewhere. It's for a printer cable or something like that. I was trying to keep stuff tidy, instead of al over the place. The problem is that the colors aren't unique. There's a red and black pair, blue and black, orange and black... so unless you keep the pairs straight it's impossible to figure out what's going where. Oh well, the concept was sound...

That's my still-not-working sequencer. I actually have a replacement chip for it but I haven't put it in yet because I'm scared of it now. I'm working on my Yusynth noise/sample and hold kit from Bridechamber. Then perhaps the Thingamaboop kit my wife bought me for my birthday. :party:

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Post by Roycie Roller » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:07 pm

It's a good idea! Quick, too, i'd imagine, if the wires correspond ok. I'm amazed at how many usable parts can be found in discarded electronics. I've been accumulating old electronic devices from the rubbish tip shop and finding everything from good pots to lots & lots of IC's, bakelite knobs, tubes, jacks, lamps, etc, etc.. There's a real thrill opening up some old device to see if there are any rare or obsolete parts inside!

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Post by haricots » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:50 pm

The only issue I had with my CGS Dual LFO was the pads were so freaking close together - at least compared to Blacet and MFOS kits.

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Post by GCF » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:33 am

Cat-5 cable would be a good choice for that type of wiring. All the individual wires have unique colors, either solid color or white/solid color stripe. I used flat computer cables to build a SoundLab and that was much easier on my brain than the way I wired a Paia Fatman.

In regards to the topic, I definitely like the look and feel of modules that do not have long boards. The Blacet ones in particular can get very deep. The parallel mounted boards in some of the Euros I have feel much more solid. Plus, you could mount them in a shallow case easily.

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Post by synthetic » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:53 am

The more I build CGS, Yusynth, etc. kits the more I appreciate MOTM kits. They just fit together like buttah. I think I'll spend the extra $100 from now on and get a working module.

(Obviously having trouble with my Yusynth module. :confused: )

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Post by Luka » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:53 am

i love the cgs stuff, though i started on it, and found that other pcb companies like mfos were just waisting space hehe. the one irk i have with the cgs boards is that they break apart fairly easy if you solder/de-solder a few times

i think from now on im going to use sockets for all the pads going to the front panel.

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