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triangle-core oscillators: Instruō Tš-L vs Bubblesound VCOb?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author triangle-core oscillators: Instruō Tš-L vs Bubblesound VCOb?
oudplayer
I'm going to be getting a pair of analog oscillators in the upcoming 2 months: one will definitely be the Joranalogue Generate 3 (which I demoed at Superbooth, and it covers the through-zero cases), but I need a 2nd for FM/PWM duties and such. Main requirements: 8hp or less, triangle core, 3+ waveform outputs (e.g. triangle sine square), does some FM, wide tracking range, sounds great.

I've demoed a pair of Bubblesound VCOb when I was at Control and really liked the sound. I hope to go back to compare the VCOb with the Tš-L, but was wondering if anyone else had compared these two and had figured out particular strengths (soundwise, mainly) of one over the other—anything that might not be obvious in doing a quick store comparison, for example.

Thanks!
lisa
Can’t help with the comparison since I haven’t tried the Bubblesound VCO but I’d recommend you to check out the Noise Reap Bermuda too. It checks all the boxes you stacked, has some cool tricks of its own and is very inexpensive. Don’t know if you’ll like the sound but do take a listen:

https://noisereap.com/?product=bermuda
cackland
Intellijel Dixie II +
dubonaire
cackland wrote:
Intellijel Dixie II +


Perfect for this. It's what I use.
MindMachine
dubonaire wrote:
cackland wrote:
Intellijel Dixie II +


Perfect for this. It's what I use.


I sold off two VCOb's and replaced them with a Dixie II+. It is more versatile and the Bubblesound uLFO or VCOb never worked for me.
mdoudoroff
Definitely go back to Control if you can—last time I was there, they had a Tš-L racked. DivKid did a pretty thorough demo of it on YouTube. The wavefolder is pretty aggressive.
obmuc
Haven't tried the Tš-L, but I have the Dixie II (6 hp version) and a VCOb. Personally I like the sound of the VCOb more than the Dixie. The VCOb has a nice fat tone... a little less harsh than the Dixie. And the VCOb sounds great under linear FM.

The VCOb isn't a very 'clean' oscillator though - doesn't produce a perfect sine, etc. If your plan is to use this oscillator as a modulator for the Generate 3 (and depending on your tastes) that might be a concern.
damase
ive tried a few different fm mod osc for tzfm,
ive found over everything else the sound character to be most important(very good tracking is also important). best is to demo them actually FMing each other and decide on what your ears say

ive never seen any reason that a “pure/clean” wave sounds better or triangle core wave sounding any better, its all to taste. actually some of the less clean sine waves have been my favorites. although something to be said about using the exact same osc maybe the best choice(like 2x generate 3).

octave switches also very helpful. if you can loosen up 2 more hp worth it to check the GRP or the Vermona options
mrerdat
I like the Ts-L and have a few, though maybe played with the VCOb once at Control.

You'll have to decide if you want a sawtooth wave (VCOb)over a built-in wavefolder (Ts-L).

On Ts-L I can get fairly close sonically to a sawtooth by adjusting the PW on the square but it's only an approximation.

I think the wavefolder more than makes up for it though.
locobitch
I asked myself the same question in search of 3 versatile tri core VCOs for making a kind of pro one under steroids and capable with the add of some crossfader going into more west coast sound territory.
I Have the uLFO since my beginning into modular world and really love it, sound really fat and the FM sound really nice on it. It can bring you easily to the buchla territory even with no wavefolder...
I came to conclusion that the FM and the waveforms choices of the VCOb even if more HP will fit more my needs than 3 TS-L. And the bubblesound one is available in DIY... My 2cents grin
The CS-L on the other hand is in my wishlist grin
oudplayer
Many thanks everyone for your replies! Gives me quite a bit to think about, some demos to hunt down, and it sounds like another trip to Control will be a must.

lisa wrote:
Can’t help with the comparison since I haven’t tried the Bubblesound VCO but I’d recommend you to check out the Noise Reap Bermuda too. It checks all the boxes you stacked, has some cool tricks of its own and is very inexpensive. Don’t know if you’ll like the sound but do take a listen:

https://noisereap.com/?product=bermuda


Interesting, I hadn’t heard of the company before. I’ll hunt around for some more demos of its sound…

MindMachine wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
cackland wrote:
Intellijel Dixie II +


Perfect for this. It's what I use.


I sold off two VCOb's and replaced them with a Dixie II+. It is more versatile and the Bubblesound uLFO or VCOb never worked for me.


Funny, I felt the opposite, at least with the time I spent with those modules. When I compared a Dixie II+ to the Bubblesound VCOb, I was much more immediately drawn to the Bubblesound, regardless of whether I was using it in higher or lower ranges. I found the Dixie to sound a bit thin in comparison. Seems I’m a bit more in alignment with obmuc then…:

obmuc wrote:
Haven't tried the Tš-L, but I have the Dixie II (6 hp version) and a VCOb. Personally I like the sound of the VCOb more than the Dixie. The VCOb has a nice fat tone... a little less harsh than the Dixie. And the VCOb sounds great under linear FM.

The VCOb isn't a very 'clean' oscillator though - doesn't produce a perfect sine, etc. If your plan is to use this oscillator as a modulator for the Generate 3 (and depending on your tastes) that might be a concern.


And, for clean sines, if I really need em, I’ll have no problem getting a bunch of them out of a Joranalogue Filter 8 (on the way soon). Or the ModBox (for <200hz sines and slewed triangles, I do love me some slewed triangles)…

mdoudoroff wrote:
Definitely go back to Control if you can—last time I was there, they had a Tš-L racked. DivKid did a pretty thorough demo of it on YouTube. The wavefolder is pretty aggressive.


mrerdat wrote:
I like the Ts-L and have a few, though maybe played with the VCOb once at Control.

You'll have to decide if you want a sawtooth wave (VCOb)over a built-in wavefolder (Ts-L).

On Ts-L I can get fairly close sonically to a sawtooth by adjusting the PW on the square but it's only an approximation.

I think the wavefolder more than makes up for it though.


I don’t find myself wanting or using sawtooth waves all that much, and the Generate 3 can produce them if I’m in a pinch. The wavefolder is the one feature I didn’t demo extensively when I tried out the Ts-L (kicking myself now…) Do you have any tracks of yours online that feature the Ts-L's wavefolding? I've heard the Cs-L's take on that, but don't know if the Ts-L sounds in the same ballpark.

locobitch wrote:
I asked myself the same question in search of 3 versatile tri core VCOs for making a kind of pro one under steroids and capable with the add of some crossfader going into more west coast sound territory.
I Have the uLFO since my beginning into modular world and really love it, sound really fat and the FM sound really nice on it. It can bring you easily to the buchla territory even with no wavefolder...
I came to conclusion that the FM and the waveforms choices of the VCOb even if more HP will fit more my needs than 3 TS-L. And the bubblesound one is available in DIY... My 2cents grin
The CS-L on the other hand is in my wishlist grin

Yes, I really liked the uLFO too.

damase wrote:
ive tried a few different fm mod osc for tzfm,
ive found over everything else the sound character to be most important(very good tracking is also important). best is to demo them actually FMing each other and decide on what your ears say

ive never seen any reason that a “pure/clean” wave sounds better or triangle core wave sounding any better, its all to taste. actually some of the less clean sine waves have been my favorites. although something to be said about using the exact same osc maybe the best choice(like 2x generate 3).

octave switches also very helpful. if you can loosen up 2 more hp worth it to check the GRP or the Vermona options

No disagreement there! Unfortunately, Control doesn’t stock Joranalogue, so will be hard to demo their floor model oscillators with it. There’s the rub…

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), I'm very space limited in this rack (208hp, some filled already), and I'm hoping to use every extra hp I can for utility modules (e.g. Miso, ToolBox, Joran's Compare 2, Kinks - stuff like that) that force me into different approaches to synthesis. Down the line, it'd be lovely to have a Cs-L and/or Furtherrr Generator, but that'll be for a different time and a different instrument!
dubonaire
I though you wanted it for FM and PWM. For FM clean is good. The thinness you think you hear is probably just cleanness. For PWM it doesn't really matter.

Anyway, matter of taste I guess.
oudplayer
dubonaire wrote:
I though you wanted it for FM and PWM. For FM clean is good. The thinness you think you hear is probably just cleanness. For PWM it doesn't really matter.

Anyway, matter of taste I guess.

Yes, two main uses would be for FM and PWM patches... that said, I'm guessing that my sonic reference was when we had two VCObs going at it, and quite immediately got very much in the territory of the Time Machines album (credited to Coil, but one of their late 90s side projects, I think Drew McDowall had a big hand in it). I never reached that experience with cleaner oscillators I tried—it just sounded more like "textbook analog fm," which is ok as its own thing, but a bit different in feel and vibe. I'm not sure if the Instruo would be in the more clean or the more dirty side of things...
dubonaire
Wavefolding, ring modulation and cross modulation get those sounds. I'd probably just get the Instruo Cš-L. You might also be interested in the WMD PDO.
synonymist
deleted
mrerdat
oudplayer wrote:

I don’t find myself wanting or using sawtooth waves all that much, and the Generate 3 can produce them if I’m in a pinch. The wavefolder is the one feature I didn’t demo extensively when I tried out the Ts-L (kicking myself now…) Do you have any tracks of yours online that feature the Ts-L's wavefolding? I've heard the Cs-L's take on that, but don't know if the Ts-L sounds in the same ballpark.


No tracks online yet, but I also own a Cs-L and the Ts-L wavefolder sounds very close to it. Of course you won't have the symmetry modulation or cross-modulation that the Cs-L features, but the raw wavefolder modulation is still there and the sound is very similar if not the same pretty much as the triangle core half of the Cs-L.

I wouldn't necessarily describe the wavefolder as "aggressive" as it's easy to
dial in softer sounds as long as your modulation on the wavefolder stays pretty low (<50%).
lisa
oudplayer wrote:
Interesting, I hadn’t heard of the company before. I’ll hunt around for some more demos of its sound…

Common reaction when something not in canon is mentioned. We’re always saying that everybody can build their own, unique rack but most racks consist more or less exclusively of modules from the top-100 most popular list. There are many great makers not in canon, though. w00t
peripatitis
I use a sine iter as an fm modulator, very nice oscillator, very space considerate. No separate outs though and the output is a bit low, so many oscillators probably won't be able to synced by it.
On the plus side, the fine-tuning mode and the level to frequency compensation mode are nice details.
The Vermona oscillator is nice as well, again it probably won't sync anything since it's output is +5v.

One feature I miss from the generator 3 is the sub, I find it to be indispensable in the omega-phi oscillators that are somewhat similar (at least in the order of fm/pm modulation). Just food for thought smile
oudplayer
Just got back from Control where I got to spend some time comparing these two in various patches. The wavefolding on the Ts-L is really something special, and after getting a chance to hear it in action I can see using it quite a bit, so I'm going with the Ts-L for the moment. Thanks for your input everyone, looking forward to making some sound with it when I get em in in a couple weeks.
SavageMessiah
I was going to recommend the Dixie as well, but seems you've found your thing. For PWM keep in mind that you can use the Compare 2 for that so if you're getting one of those too, getting it on an oscillator will just be a convenience.
jzwoopwoop
Late vote for Malekko Oscillator II: nice, solid, stable, sounds great, phase mod is super fun, second set of outputs for phase shifted waveforms is real nice!
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