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Mixing clone and Buchla, answers needed.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge  
Author Mixing clone and Buchla, answers needed.
mousegarden
I seem to be running into problems and I haven't even started yet. My Easel is great, love it, I don't feel there are any limitations with it, or that I'm missing anything. Same with 200e, the way it's structured, and if there are limitations, then that's all part of the sound, and why I want it.
But, like anyone, I'm trying to save money, and also get a few essential functions addressed in clone form, like attenuation, I've also bought a Samomodular case, are these fine for 200e modules? I'm running into issues regarding negative voltages and 200e stuff using my Negativespace CVP, all these things I wasn't aware of and I don't want to waste anymore money if I have to in the end, go and by a Buchla case etc.
mritenburg
I can only tell you about my experience. Some folks will probably disagree. I mixed 200r and 200e modules in an older weedywhizz 203-30u case. The present manager and 200e modules would lock-up in that case. I moved all of my 200e modules into a genuine Buchla 18u case and have had zero problems since then.

I keep my clones and 200e modules in separate cases and have had no additional problems. Newer clone cases may support the 200e preset manager/I2C bus better and there are the Studio H bus repeaters that are supposed to help too, but I'm content with keeping my modules separate since it's very easy to run cables between the cases.

In regard to negative voltages: I don't know why you would need to start with a negative voltage when most of the CV input attenuators on Buchla modules will invert the voltage for you.
tIB
The way I approached it was to have 'proper' power - I started with a 6 space powered boat which I then expanded with a mixture of clone and buchla boats. I now have an 18u case with a buchla powered, buchla unpowered and an unknown (non buchla) boat. Since I intended to have mostly 200e (and eventually possibly all), I figured I !at as well get the power system designed to run it. I was also aware that the 6u powered boats ran 18ubof modules, and was happy to DIY the interconnectors. I updated my power supply brick as was teaching capacity. My current mixture of 200e primo and clones (258v, 288v,296r and 275r) play fine together. The only time I had issues was when I was running close to capacity on !y cincon brick.
dkcg
I would imagine if someone bought new 200e modules, any warranty may not cover the use of 3rd party power.
Cobramatic
I've got a 200e system ( with the preset manager) built into a custom travel case that I made myself from an ex DJ portable case.
I added a 259R, Some Eardrill stuff and a handful of Eurorack effect modules (Echophon etc) which are all powered from the same supply.

Im using a standard Buchla Power supply and brick, the main distribution board is also Buchla standard but I'm also using a couple of 3rd party passive distribution boards as well as my own custom mini power regulator to power the eurorack off the Buchla power.

So I guess you could say I've got a bit of Frankenstein system, which definitely would not be to a purist taste, but it runs perfectly fine and I've never had a problem with the power or Preset system. And because it is portable I have used it in several locations and even played live with it in the past.

Maybe I've just been lucky....
Vatican2
Cobramatic wrote:
I've got a 200e system ( with the preset manager) built into a custom travel case that I made myself from an ex DJ portable case.


I think I understand your grammar, but did you build the preset manager into the case? That would be awesome.
Cobramatic
Vatican2 wrote:
Cobramatic wrote:
I've got a 200e system ( with the preset manager) built into a custom travel case that I made myself from an ex DJ portable case.


I think I understand your grammar, but did you build the preset manager into the case? That would be awesome.


Yes, I have the 225e, which includes the Preset manager, as one of the modules in the case.
missingtwin
The issues with lock ups on the bus have less to do with the brand of power or luck or anything else except the number of CPUs on the bus.

Once you reach upward of 20 CPU on the system, you will experience lock ups and freezes. This will happen with a buchla brand case or any other case that supports the i2c protocol.

Clones and non e modules will exacerbate the problem, but again, it has to do with the number of e modules on the bus. If there are less than 20, it probably doesn’t matter how many non e modules you have, because it will likely work fine.

There are many approaches to this issue.

The studio h repeaters were designed to reduce the errors introduced on the bus from a high number of CPU.

Shuffling around the e modules (especially the placement of the preset manager) will change the pattern of interference and can prevent lock ups.

Certain modules are known to be troublemakers with regard to the i2c lock up issue (285e), but again, it won’t happen until the system has many modules on the bus.

So mousegarden, unless you are planning on building a 24-30U or higher system, you will be fine regardless of case manufacturer. Once you reach that number of modules you will need to get some repeaters and likely do some module shuffling to make it work.
askthedust
I have mainly e modules and some third parties (25s, 218r, Modcan delay) in a Buchla 18u case. I’m using the 225e preset manager ands never had a single freeze.
mousegarden
Thanks folks, I'm only using a 4 space boat consisting of 281/291/259/CVP/267 I'm using a Samomodular 4 space boat. This is primarily an expansion for my Easel.
I'm not using anything to do with the preset manager, so that isnt an issue.
missingtwin
Considerable compromises to the system have been made to facilitate the preset manager, not the least of which is you don’t know if the actual knob settings reflect the true value. Also, without the preset manager you will have to hit the memory button for every module if you want to save the state when you power on again.

Preset manager was clearly a focal point in the design, without that, you’ll be missing one of the greatest features, and paying for it needlessly.

If you’re never getting a preset manager, do a 200 clone system.

You also mentioned getting non e utility modules. This is a mistake imo. The utility modules are the most important thing to have under preset control.
Aside from being the heart of a 200e patch, they can “e-ify” non-e modules (210e, 256e, 257e and studio h’s 255e, 254e, CSR).

You should consider rethinking this non-e plan.
numan7
mousegarden wrote:
... essential functions addressed in clone form, like attenuation ...


simple attenuation can be addressed passively using just pairs of jacks, pots and wire. it doesn't even have to be on a module panel, and could be built in to a case (i think the keen association case has some passive attenuators in a recessed side panel, for example). no worries about negative voltages that way.


cheers
mousegarden
missingtwin wrote:
Considerable compromises to the system have been made to facilitate the preset manager, not the least of which is you don’t know if the actual knob settings reflect the true value. Also, without the preset manager you will have to hit the memory button for every module if you want to save the state when you power on again.

Preset manager was clearly a focal point in the design, without that, you’ll be missing one of the greatest features, and paying for it needlessly.

If you’re never getting a preset manager, do a 200 clone system.

You also mentioned getting non e utility modules. This is a mistake imo. The utility modules are the most important thing to have under preset control.
Aside from being the heart of a 200e patch, they can “e-ify” non-e modules (210e, 256e, 257e and studio h’s 255e, 254e, CSR).

You should consider rethinking this non-e plan.


My 4 space boat is an expansion to my Easel, I have to leave it at that, I just don't want to spend more money.
I'm not worried about being able to save or replicate patches, it hasn't been an issue with the Easel.
The only utility module I'll ever own is the CVP, it's useful, and has a mixer, slew too.
As long as I stay away from negative voltages I should be OK, I just need to keep an eye on those red lights!
mutierend
I have an SAModular 18U case. I was having preset lockup problems and a set of Doug's repeaters, moving modules around, and the updated bus boards fixed it. The 260e was the primary culprit for my lockup problems.
mousegarden
mutierend wrote:
I have an SAModular 18U case. I was having preset lockup problems and a set of Doug's repeaters, moving modules around, and the updated bus boards fixed it. The 260e was the primary culprit for my lockup problems.


I don't think I'm going to have any problems really, it's a small boat, and no preset manager.
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