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259e internal midi bus without preset manager
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge  
Author 259e internal midi bus without preset manager
Clockgate
I just got a new 259e, and to my delight I find it responds to my 225h and 226h without having a preset manager installed.

I recently traded my Easel-K for a 200e system, and was thinking my 225h might be broke since the 281e, 261e & 292e didn't respond. Once the search was fixed, I read that you need to have a preset manager for most modules to respond to the internal buss. It was especially confusing since the midi led on the 292e lights, but the 292e doesn't respond.

Is this a firmware update on the 259e, or has it always worked like that? If so, can we expect any firmware updates to other modules?
Kent
I have a 225e. I’m going to guess that you need to set the device IDs.I think they are called “Module ID”.
Make certain that these are set to “A”.

Preset Managers don’t parse MIDI streams. You should be able to do this with the USB Firmware card as well. I could be wrong but think that this is a nudge in the correct direction.
Clockgate
Thanks Kent. I have tried all possible device IDs on the 261e, 281e & 292e and none of them respond, just the 259e.

This was posted in December 2017:

Drillionaire wrote:
Something worth noting is that the 225h does not act as a preset manager. This also means that most 200e modules (everything except the 281h, I believe) will ignore all bus messages unless you also have a 225e or 206e in the same system as the 225h.[/list]
Kent
Ah, I see. I had interpreted your original post’s mentioning of “internal bus” to mean internal MIDI buss.

You were hoping for Preset Management.

Yeah, you simply must have a Preset Manager installed for that.
Clockgate
No, I wasn't looking for preset management, it is purely about the internal midi bus from the 225h & 226h.

Basically, the only module I have that responds to the internal bus from the 225h & 226h is the 259e. I have switched all the IDs on the 281e, 292e & 261e, and sent midi on channels 1 to 4 and nothing responds apart from the 259e

Drillionaire states that the internal midi buses don't work without a preset manager installed, and that is what I am experiencing.
elmerfudd
Interesting. Might explain why I couldn't get the Sensel Morph/Thunder to address via the USB program card. thought I was just being less than clever......
Clockgate
I should mention that I also have a LEM3 case, and the internal midi bus didn't work on the 281e, 292e or 261e that I tried in it with the 225h. I haven't tested the 259e in the LEM yet, but will soon.
Kent
-hmmm.., I’ll step out of this one as I have no experience with that configuration. Hopefully, more educated persons can step in.
Clockgate
Thanks for your input Kent, hopefully someone can shed some light on this.
christie
I can confirm that a preset manager is required for the internal midi bus to operate.

Went through nearly the identical questions and process.
Clockgate
Thanks christie, it is just as I suspected. The fact that the 259e works without a preset manager does mean it is possible, but I'm not holding my breath for firmware updates to the other modules...
christie
Myself, I long for a more fleshed out "system" concept. One where a preset manager is built in to the cabinet itself, along with midi and final audio out. Free up the module spaces for the synth itself rather than split the system level aspects over 2-3 modules.

Dreams...
mirf59
....

I'm going to jump in here with a question that nags at me. I think it may have been asked and answered, but I don't remember where.

Why is it necessary for the Preset Manager to be onboard hardware? What if anything prevents this function from being performed using outboard software?

This aspect of 200e seems kinda Stone Age.

....
tIB
Because you shouldn't need a computer to play a musical instrument?
mirf59
tIB wrote:
Because you shouldn't need a computer to play a musical instrument?


Right. I get the "everything onboard" approach. But, if you are already zapping MIDI from off-board into the instrument, why force that user to consume 1U of real estate, and incur considerable expense, to have the Preset Manager onboard?

The data requirements of the Preset Manager are trivial and would not even register as a blip on the processing capacity of the average outboard computing device. You would also get infinite file storage. You could have 30 presets loaded up no problem for each tune.

...
tIB
Yup, though I suspect my earlier point was the deciding factor.

A proper h series preset manager would be a decent compromise (assuming that range is expanded) so that folk could pair it with a wider range of choices.
Clockgate
tIB wrote:
Yup, though I suspect my earlier point was the deciding factor.

A proper h series preset manager would be a decent compromise (assuming that range is expanded) so that folk could pair it with a wider range of choices.


I heard, from what I would consider a fairly reliable source, that an h-series preset manager is in the pipeline.

It would be perfect for me as I only use an Akai EWI wind instrument with the 225h, so only need monophonic midi. I definitely don't need a 225e, and I am probably going to get a 227e at some point, so a mixer would be redundant.
tIB
Clockgate wrote:
tIB wrote:
Yup, though I suspect my earlier point was the deciding factor.

A proper h series preset manager would be a decent compromise (assuming that range is expanded) so that folk could pair it with a wider range of choices.


I heard, from what I would consider a fairly reliable source, that an h-series preset manager is in the pipeline.

It would be perfect for me as I only use an Akai EWI wind instrument with the 225h, so only need monophonic midi. I definitely don't need a 225e, and I am probably going to get a 227e at some point, so a mixer would be redundant.


Excellent. Hope they do some of the other obvious ones too - each half of the 267e for example.
christie
Half height preset manager would help for sure, combine it with 225h would solve the question posed in this thread.

Personally I'll find a spot where it fit and cut out a space for it in one of the cabinet/boat sides and mount it there.
Kent
But that takes up one space and is less than a 225e. seriously, i just don't get it
christie
That's true, isn't it?

Really I just want it built into the case.

Right now my 206e lives in a little 1 unit box and it picks up power and data from from my Skylab or lem. And I can tie the data buses of those two together To make a larger system and the 206e sees everything. But it's a lot of cables.
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