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3.5mm to 3.5mm Mogami cables for audio path? Good idea?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author 3.5mm to 3.5mm Mogami cables for audio path? Good idea?
BailyDread
Hi everyone,

A quick search didn't turn up anything about this, so figured I'd ask here before I made any real investment w/ these cables.

I found a retailer on Reverb that has 3.5mm to 3.5mm connectors with Mogami cabling between. This cabling is more shielded and robust than most other eurorack cables I've found, which seem usually to have next to nothing as far as shielding layers go. I used to believe cables don't make a difference, but as I've gotten into audio more, I've found that cables do indeed make quite a big difference when it comes to unbalanced connections. I also play guitar, and prefer single-coil pickups. When I switched to Mogami cables (same company), I noticed a dramatic reduction in hum and general noisiness, as well as the signal seeming to have more "presence" and fidelity.

My question is do you think this would be a good call for the audio path in eurorack? I wouldn't be replacing all my cables, because as far as I can tell Hosas etc are totally fine for sending CV around, since CV doesn't seem to be as effected by interference, or if it is, I'm not able to detect what difference interference is making with regards to a patch. So my plan would be to have the shortest cable runs possible between oscillator to filter, filter to VCA, VCA to DI. I always use a DI because I feel it tames the wild beast that is Eurorack audio signal (eats up ultra-spikey transients a bit; driving the input of the DI creates a pleasant warming effect). After the DI, the signal is balanced so I don't have to worry as much about noise/signal loss due to cable length.

Am I splitting hairs here and chasing my tail or could using these cables in the audio path really make an appreciable difference?

Below is a link to the cables I'm talking about. As you can see they're pretty pricy confused

https://reverb.com/item/1407352-2-ft-castline-silver-3-5mm-ts-straight -unbalanced-patch-cable-mogami-2319

there are also these, which are made w/ mogami 2524, which I believe has even more shielding? Not sure...

https://reverb.com/item/1407340-1-ft-castline-gold-3-5mm-ts-straight-u nbalanced-patch-cable-mogami-2524

Thanks! nanners
Hovercraft
I started out in Eurorack making my own cables with Mogami cable and Neutrik/Rean connectors. It didn't take long for me to decide there were better ways to spend my time and money. The biggest advantage in quality cables is durability. The shielding doesn't hurt, but I've never had interference issues due to lack of cable shielding.

Edit: Also noticed that the guy making those cables, puts on a long piece of heat shrink tubing--that makes the ends stiff, and it would be a pain having a bunch of cables sticking straight up out of the jacks.
peaches27
Another guitar player → modular addict here and had the exact same thoughts: my understanding is that while different guitar cables can make an appreciable difference to sound, the fact that euro levels are so high means that cable capacitance is practically irrelevant in that you're not going to lose any aspects of your signal like you do high end with cheap guitar cables.

I expect some of what I've said is technically a bit wrong but I think that's the gist: I'd focus on feel and durability with cables.
peaches27
Duplicate post!
peaches27
And again d'oh!
Summa
yeah I wouldn't go down that route either, I'll focus on getting a real good powering solution for the modular. That's where most interference and noise issues will occur anyway.
sir stony
I explicitly confirm the impact of cables on the sound of passive guitar pickups. But those are very weak signals, low levels and quite high impedances, typically looking at 10-15 foot cable lengths. That's altogether the opposite of what you have in your average eurorack patch. Modular synths are designed to work with their own technical circumstances of a lot of exposed wiring. Unless you have your modular set up in an unhealthily electromagnetically radiated space, I doubt you'll notice a difference worth the money, if any at all...
kwaidan
In seven years, I have yet to have a patch cable go bad.
BailyDread
Thanks all, makes sense!
dubonaire
I'm a big believer in running balanced connections from synths wherever possible, I have balanced I/O from my modular, but I don't see any need for balanced patch cables. I have a low noise system.
JohnLRice
BailyDread wrote:

Below is a link to the cables I'm talking about. As you can see they're pretty pricy confused

https://reverb.com/item/1407352-2-ft-castline-silver-3-5mm-ts-straight -unbalanced-patch-cable-mogami-2319

there are also these, which are made w/ mogami 2524, which I believe has even more shielding? Not sure...

https://reverb.com/item/1407340-1-ft-castline-gold-3-5mm-ts-straight-u nbalanced-patch-cable-mogami-2524

Thanks! nanners


Just FYI, Redco can make the above cables using 2 feet of Mogami wire and Neutrik connectors (minus the heat shrink tubing) for under $10:
$8.20
https://www.redco.com/Custom-Cable.html?cableid=EE3PU6
$9.44
https://www.redco.com/Custom-Cable.html?cableid=3ZR5D6

That said, I agree with others that due to the strong signal levels and relatively short distances the cables traverse (for most of us hihi ) that using expensive bulky cables isn't going to gain you much if any quality and at the same time make patching more difficult because of the clutter? Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea for long cable runs though, like 5 feet or greater and especial for lengths over 10 feet?

If you want to invest in some special cables to make wiggling easier, consider getting a bunch of Tendrils right angle cables? Good quality and helps to keep knobs and switches free of clutter. Only about $2.50 to $3.50 each.thumbs up
https://www.tendrilscables.com/
batch
For shielded patch cables at a much more reasonable price would recommend checking out PolarNoise.com. I just bought 300 of them and am very happy with the purchase.
sutekina bipu-on
Use whatever cables you like for euro. I have one cable made from very heavy PCOCC which i really made as a joke but works fine. There is a crazy guy on youtube who covers Eric Clapton songs with some euro filter (also has some demos of the doepfer delayed lfo) and has cables made with super thick speaker wire wrapped in tape.

Personally my favorite cables are made from some Cerwin Vega RCA wires that are ridiculously long. The plugs were really bad on them although the wire and sleeving are heavenly. I have a bunch of patch cables made from that cable and it really makes the best patch cables I have. Super light and flexible but just the right amount of springiness. I had bought some of that wire on sale and one of the plugs was broken out of the box so i just cut it up.

I have thought about getting a bunch more of that wire to make patch cables from, but i would probably want to hoard it all for myself, and it would be weird to sell patch cables with cerwin vega's name on the cable sleeve lol

Also, if you're really gonna go all out, get something sick like Cardas, not Mogami!
krell
The guitars you're speaking of are passive high impedance, and so the cable becomes a part of the circuit, like changing the value of the tonecap (will affect the amount of treble), also very susceptible to hum.

Low impedance high voltage active stuff doesn't work like that and you'll only really notice a difference in patching long runs of control voltages (not audio), this is why we have buffered mults.

That's also why there are buffers for guitars smile Try attaching a one meter cable from your guitar to a buffered guitar pedal (like a Boss tuner), then try running both your favourite guitar cable from that pedal to your amp, and then switch it out for your crappy cable.

You'll notice the differences between the cables are gone!
BailyDread
I definitely agree about the necessity for buffers! I use a TU-3 for that purpose. But I still like my Mogami cabling on the front end before the tuner, since I use quite a few pedals that require an unbuffered signal (various fuzzes and distortion boxes). I'm also *that guy* who insists on using 9 volt batteries wherever possible in my stomp boxes, especially Panasonic Zinc batteries b/c they help make my prized distortion boxes have a certain "sag" and sponginess. I also use a AmpRX Brown Box to supply my tube amplifiers w/ lower voltages, because this also helps increase the dynamic "feel". Basically I like getting into the nitty gritty details of tone! SlayerBadger!

Cheers tho everyone, thanks for saving me some cash on a superfluous purchase Guinness ftw!
krell
BailyDread wrote:
I definitely agree about the necessity for buffers! I use a TU-3 for that purpose. But I still like my Mogami cabling on the front end before the tuner, since I use quite a few pedals that require an unbuffered signal (various fuzzes and distortion boxes). I'm also *that guy* who insists on using 9 volt batteries wherever possible in my stomp boxes, especially Panasonic Zinc batteries b/c they help make my prized distortion boxes have a certain "sag" and sponginess. I also use a AmpRX Brown Box to supply my tube amplifiers w/ lower voltages, because this also helps increase the dynamic "feel". Basically I like getting into the nitty gritty details of tone! SlayerBadger!

Cheers tho everyone, thanks for saving me some cash on a superfluous purchase Guinness ftw!


Yep, I'm a guitarist aswell and I also religiously use non-buffered between my amp and my guitar (with a treble booster and a fuzz in-between). Both of those circuits are so simple that they become a part of the circuit with the cable and the guitar, and you certainly do feel it in the response vs placing a fuzz after a buffer (at least in the cases of sunfaces and the like, the simpler circuits)

And yeah, the battery becomes part of those simpler circuits too. In these situations lower capacitance cabling results in less bandpass filtering. Doesn't mean the cable has to be expensive, there are low cost low capacitance cables. I personally use vovox because I'm lazy, they're low capacitance and they have good mechanical properties (last long)

On the modular side, it'd be a good idea for all modules ins and outs to be balanced. But that's quite a major modification, and I'm guessing they aren't balanced because it'd make it even more expensive.
peabreu
Try for yourself.
After several tests I think differences are noticeable as expected, so I started using hand made cables with Gotham GAC-1 for all audio connections in the modular, its not like I have nothing else to do with time and money...the differences are there and noticeable. Now if those are worth your time and money only you can answer, its your ears and your setup. I am just talking of plain good quality inexpensive professional audio cable with decent terminations being those Rean or Lumberg, not even more esoteric like Cardas or Vovox.
My 2 euro cents...
versipellis
peabreu wrote:
Try for yourself.
After several tests I think differences are noticeable as expected, so I started using hand made cables with Gotham GAC-1 for all audio connections in the modular, its not like I have nothing else to do with time and money...the differences are there and noticeable. Now if those are worth your time and money only you can answer, its your ears and your setup. I am just talking of plain good quality inexpensive professional audio cable with decent terminations being those Rean or Lumberg, not even more esoteric like Cardas or Vovox.
My 2 euro cents...


I'd love to hear an A/B of this.
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