Moog ladder filter is overrated

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rustedimac
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Moog ladder filter is overrated

Post by rustedimac » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:51 pm

Not sure how unpopular of opinion around here, but the famous Moog ladder filter seems very much so overrated. I am definitely not a fan and while I appreciate the sound of Minimoog, it just never was my thing. I owned Mother 32, DFAM and Minitaur in the past, but sold them all due to the sound of the ladder filter. I personally prefer liquidy SH-101 and ultra-aggressive MS-20 filters, and I own both the original synths and eurorack modules (to be fair, MS-20 is what got me in to the world of synthesizers, so I am heavily biased toward it). I also think Steiner-Parker filter is sounds better and more versatile than Moog. Do I lack imagination? Maybe.

Although it all boils down to personal preferences, I still get this impression that the Ladder Filter is highly overrated.

What are your thoughts? Feel free to burn me to synth hell! :party: :deadbanana:
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Post by Panason » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:56 pm

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Jason Brock
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Re: Moog ladder filter is overrated

Post by Jason Brock » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:59 pm

rustedimac wrote:Not sure how unpopular of opinion around here, but the famous Moog ladder filter seems very much so overrated.
It's not my favorite (or even second favorite), but "overrated" is just a popularity contest that it wins because it is the grandaddy of them all.
Last edited by Jason Brock on Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rustedimac
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Re: Moog ladder filter is overrated

Post by rustedimac » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:03 pm

Jason Brock wrote:
rustedimac wrote:Not sure how unpopular of opinion around here, but the famous Moog ladder filter seems very much so overrated.
It's not my favorite (or even second favorite), but "overrated" is just a popularity contest that it wins because it is the grandaddy of them all.
Very true and I do acknowledge its importance as "the first born." But I was simply talking about the sound. Just look how many people are looking to buy/create clones of it.
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tioJim
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Post by tioJim » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:05 pm

'Overrated'? Maybe. 'Overursed'? Definitely!

It's a classic though. A Strat or a Tele is overused but nobody seems to really mind.

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Post by BailyDread » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:48 pm

when it's used subtly I like it. it can work on percussive stabby stuff too if you use cool envelopes. its OK. I can't stand the ms-20 filter! :lolhammer:

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Post by sduck » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:06 pm

I think the term overrated is overrated.

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Post by kinkujin » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:12 pm

To each his/her own. I think it’s marv.

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Post by NoLegs » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:36 pm

This thread is overrated

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Post by dumbledog » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:56 am

You gotta keep 'me overrated

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Post by nectarios » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:01 am

It was the first filter, a classic, so granted opinions may vary according to taste, but overrated it is not...its where it all started.

Having said that the Minimoog filter has some serious drawbacks, but the glorious discography and tastes make it a very "famous" filter, so fair enough really.

I am not crazy about it, I have two Moog clone filters and they are both outside my eurocases in their box.

I much prefer the diode ladder filter and I also prefer the IR3109 VCF to the the Mininmoog filter...I actually prefer many other filters to the Moog filters, but hey ho, tastes and all that.

But yeah, overrated it is not.

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Post by lisa » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:27 am

rustedimac: ”Overrated” as in ”many users think it sounds better than it does”? What does that even mean? Is there some objective sound standard I’m not aware of?

Or are you just asking if there are others that don’t like how it sounds? Of course there are, as with any sound.
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Post by anselmi » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:33 am

this is a statement that is hard to measure

personally I love it, as well as other filters that you mention

not sure if this worth a thread though... :hmm:

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Post by chiasticon » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:32 am

don't really see a point in rating filters. to me, it's great that they're all different and it's nice to have several of them around to make different sounds. not something to complain about. :despair:

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Post by Divinital » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:39 am

Here we go.

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Post by GuyaGuy » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:40 am

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Post by Shledge » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:50 am

Personally like the sound of Roland filters more than Moog filters. They both sound "smooth" but Roland has that extra precise, liquid quality to it - sounds more like a "space cat meowing" rather than moogs "cat chewing a bee" filter sound.

Then again, it's all quite subjective.

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Post by Struggle » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:58 am

Filters are overrated :omg:

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Post by thevegasnerve » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:05 am

it sure gets the job done for me when I need a low pass filter..

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Post by Sir Ruff » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:28 pm

Here’s a fun factoid for the OP—I compared my Synth-Werk oscillator + filter (1:1 original 1960s moog modular clones) to my SH-101. And would you believe, they basically sounded identical :party:

Based on what you’ve owned it sounds like you just don’t like the modern Moog sound. Which is fine. Thread done.

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Post by zoneswithoutpeople » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:49 pm

Like you I’ve ended up selling all the Moog gear I’ve purchased because they all end up sounding kind of monochromatic - the filter has a very distinct sound that colors all the resulting tones as obviously MOOGY. I find my SH 101 and Juno filters better for the music I want to make.

That said, there is something special about the low end of a Moog ladder... that growling, deep presence. I’ve never heard basses so huge as the ones my sub 37 used to crank out. And a lot of my fav 1970s synth music is heavily based on the Moog filter sound... Kraftwerk, TD, Ashra, Cluster. So it definitely works if you want that authentic krautrock sequenced bassline. There’s a simplicity and warmth, that many other filters lack.

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Post by Jason Brock » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:53 pm

Sir Ruff wrote:Here’s a fun factoid for the OP—I compared my Synth-Werk oscillator + filter (1:1 original 1960s moog modular clones) to my SH-101. And would you believe, they basically sounded identical :party:
I would believe "at certain settings" they sound the same. But differences are definitely there in the resonance, and in the way they respond to modulation.

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Post by makhho » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:01 pm

wasp and ms20 mkii for me

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Post by calaveras » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:07 pm

I prefer SEM filter over Moog. First it's state variable. But even just in Lowpass, it just has that sound. As Nick from Sonicstate said in his OB6 review, it's just...ahhh.

To my ears the SEM filter has a less distorted sound than the Roland, Korg and Moog filters. All of which seem to introduce 2nd or 3rd harmonic distortion even as they are removing higher harmonics.

There is also this thing where it just never sounds quite as static as other 2 or 3 pole filters. It's almost like there is a tiny touch of reverb.

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Post by Sir Ruff » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:50 pm

Jason Brock wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:Here’s a fun factoid for the OP—I compared my Synth-Werk oscillator + filter (1:1 original 1960s moog modular clones) to my SH-101. And would you believe, they basically sounded identical :party:
I would believe "at certain settings" they sound the same. But differences are definitely there in the resonance, and in the way they respond to modulation.
For sure. There is a certain fullness to the 101 sound even at high-rez that other classic "moog" filters lack, but the basic tonal difference was very minor (even with high resonance on both) to the point where I could easily convince you the Moog was the 101. And my overall point was that the OP wasn't really complaining about not liking all filters, just certain varieties.

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