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Waldorf Microwave in Eurorack...is there?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Waldorf Microwave in Eurorack...is there?
Sanys
i tried E352 and didn't hear the grit waldorf microwave has.
It doesn't exist or i miss something.

I checked SSP and ER-301 videos. they sound nice, pristine yet not like older Waldorf and lack knobby interface.
I checked other wavetable osc videos and the only thing that came close is Waldorf NW1 but i read enough about it being buggy.
I would sell Microwave and go fully eurorack with wavetable if it gives me the same sound

What would come close? or simple truth is that eurorack can't nail the sound.
I wonder if anyone tried to achieve the same results
miles_macquarrie
Keep in mind you can load your own wavetables into the modules. The e352 can get pretty gritty with the right waves loaded in.

Also have a look at Piston Honda MK3 and Erica Synths Graphic VCO.

Both can be gritty right out of the box
peripatitis
I'd look at the flame 4 vox. That sounds closer to me.
I've sold my xt, I don't think you can replace it that way.

Btw I don't care what everyone else says for me the NW1 sounds nasal and completely unrelated with that waldorf sound.
Sanys
found this old thread. I wonder if anything changed since '09

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4691
macs4music
Waldorf's own wavetable module is probably as buggy as the microwave was. to be fair its as close as you can get.
Sanys
Never had any issues with neither Microwave 1 nor XT
Thighpaulsandra
The NW1 sounds quite polite and thin in comparison with the Microwave 1 which in turn sounds thin in comparison with the PPG Wave 2.2. Having said that I've not found the NW1 or the Microwave to be buggy and they both have their own character which I find to be useful.

Thighp.
geremyf
In the e352 you have to enable glitch mode (there are multiple levels of glitch). Otherwise it will be buttery smooth all the time.
Sinamsis
I guess it really depends on what you do with your Microwave. I had one for a while and thought it was a wonderful synth. I recently sold mine mainly because I had too many synths and wanted to stream line things a bit. FWIW I felt like the various iterations of the Piston Honda were Scott's homage to the Microwave. Of course these are just oscillators, you need 12 db LPF. Personally, I have my PH mk III paired with a Korgasmatron at all times, I love it. And I do feel like the wavetables selected by Scott are also reminiscent of the MW. That said, even with a good oscillator and filter, you're still missing a lot, like the complex envelope. And of course that's only for one voice. The MW1 seems way ahead of its time to me, and combined with one of the modern controllers like the Stereoping it's a phenomenal instrument. You'd pay an arm and a leg to get remotely close with eurorack, and it would be much less efficient.
Pighood
I've always lusted after the Kotelnikov, but I haven't the room for it.

I do have a Kermit, and that KINDA gets into that territory. KINDA.
Pighood
Plus I need a really long broom 'andle to poke Wolfgang Palm to get into Euro. we're not worthy
LANDMIME!
Thighpaulsandra wrote:
The NW1 sounds quite polite and thin in comparison with the Microwave 1 which in turn sounds thin in comparison with the PPG Wave 2.2. Having said that I've not found the NW1 or the Microwave to be buggy and they both have their own character which I find to be useful.

Thighp.


thumbs up yup.
tiger001
did you load the same watetables (those from XT and/or MW1) in the ER301 & the SSP?

then you can really start to compare

(owning both of them -SSP & MW xt-, i can say i don't want to compare them, as they both have such strong points that they exist in their own niche/place)
governor blacksnake
the piston honda mk3 was designed by one of the world's foremost microwave 1/prophet VS superfans, with special attention given to the bits of character that can't be described with language. I had a NW1 for a while, but the formant/spectral processing removed all of the life-affirming content from certain wavetables, and you couldn't turn it off.
peripatitis
The xt (which I know) had some bugs, for example using the mono/unison click and quite many others but a bit on the minor side.
Of course the filters on the xt are digital and probably has a different character to the microwave 1.

Overall I preferred the xt sound. One thing to keep in mind of course is that their mod matrix is huge, replicating that in a modular realm would acquire a lot of modules.
dubonaire
governor blacksnake wrote:
the piston honda mk3 was designed by one of the world's foremost microwave 1/prophet VS superfans, with special attention given to the bits of character that can't be described with language. I had a NW1 for a while, but the formant/spectral processing removed all of the life-affirming content from certain wavetables, and you couldn't turn it off.


You are making me desire a piston honda mk3.
clusterchord
beside the fidelity, 8bit DACs, and selection of the waves, chasing the MW/PPG sound has a lot to do with oscillator design and how the transposition is executed. this was a rather interesting text/analysis on the subject of transposition technology and resulting artifacts in early digital machines:

taxonomy of early digital synthesizers



i am somewhat obsessed with wavetabling in general, and have both generations of PPG, 2 and 2.3, a MW revision A, MW XT and Synthtech 350/370. (and plan to pickup Honda mk1 soon)

according to above text, PPG22/23 and MW both se Phase Accumulator. and indeed there is obvious aliasing and mirroring attributing to the trademark glassy sound. feed that into SSM2044 filter and you are in the ballpark.

earlier models like 360 and Wave 2 use Divide-by-N and have almost no aliasing. and in some ways transposition reminds me of changing speed on a magn. tape recorder. filter is CEM3320. most notable example of this are fem vox sounds on Tangerine Dream Exit. like the opening track Kiew Mission. i've made a somewhat similar sound in this piece:

https://soundcloud.com/clusterchord/astronaut-of-featherweight-part-tw o



for the 2.2/2.3 sound i am not sure what is the best iteration in euro. i can say i agree NW1 is completely different and sounds "processed". haven't tried Flame, but Harvestman seems much more like it. as for earlier PPG sound, imo SSSR Labs Kotelnikov has gotten into Wave 2 character quite well. no PPG wavetables, tho i noticed user wave loading has been added recently, so perhaps its possible. Synthtech is a lovely sound, but very different from old machines, very hifi, smooth and high resolution. glitch mode is great too, but invokes a different sort of dirt, not the "prehistoric" crust.
Sanys
thx for the input clusterchord
so besides Wabetable osc there should be Curtis filter, VCA... even then there is lo-fi DACs in these machines
Flexyflier
Thighpaulsandra wrote:
The NW1 sounds quite polite and thin in comparison with the Microwave 1 which in turn sounds thin in comparison with the PPG Wave 2.2. Having said that I've not found the NW1 or the Microwave to be buggy and they both have their own character which I find to be useful.

Thighp.


Yeah my NW1 works great,not come across any bugs...in it.
Shledge
Graphic VCO is one of the most flexible ones out there. I think there is a bitcrush FX mode to make it have aliasing as seen in early wavetable synths.
clusterchord
Sanys wrote:
thx for the input clusterchord
so besides Wabetable osc there should be Curtis filter, VCA... even then there is lo-fi DACs in these machines


you're welcome smile

Wave 2.2 and 2.3 use SSM2044 filter fed into CEM3360 vca.

Wave 2 uses CEM3320 fed into CEM3330 vca.
(instead of software env like others, it also has CEM3310 envelopes)

Microwave uses so-called "voice processors" also by Curtis, which consist of VCF and a stereo VCA iirc. revision A is CEM3389 and revision B CEM3387.


further, while wavetables in all these models are 8-bit, DA conversion is 8-bit on Wave 2 and 2.2, and 12-bit on 2.3 and Microwave.
The Grump
I've got a Microwave Rev A, and a Graphic VCO, and I'll see what I can do to get the latter to sound something similar to the former, though honestly, I would advise against selling your Microwave. You're not going to find anything that sounds quite like it, especially the filters. They are quite unique, and even if you can load the tables and reduce the bits correctly, you're not going to get the rest of the signal path, which is as important as the oscillators themselves.
Monotremata
Thighpaulsandra wrote:
Having said that I've not found the NW1 or the Microwave to be buggy and they both have their own character which I find to be useful.

Thighp.


Yeah Id call the 'bugs' in the Microwave more like glitches, none of them are showstoppers and in the 20 years Ive had my XT nothing has kept it from doing what it does best.
Shledge
The Grump wrote:
I've got a Microwave Rev A, and a Graphic VCO, and I'll see what I can do to get the latter to sound something similar to the former, though honestly, I would advise against selling your Microwave. You're not going to find anything that sounds quite like it, especially the filters. They are quite unique, and even if you can load the tables and reduce the bits correctly, you're not going to get the rest of the signal path, which is as important as the oscillators themselves.


They don't add to the "grit" of the sound - only the DACs do.

The filters and VCAs are not even unique, they're bog standard CEM chips. Easily replicated with equivalent CEM based modules.

(still, the microwave is a keeper, but mainly for the polyphony)
The Grump
Shledge wrote:

The filters and VCAs are not even unique, they're bog standard CEM chips. Easily replicated with equivalent CEM based modules.


Nobody has succeeded in doing so, to date, especially the filters. I'm not trying to cite voodoo, but subtleties do add up.
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