Waldorf Microwave in Eurorack...is there?

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Sanys
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Waldorf Microwave in Eurorack...is there?

Post by Sanys » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:23 am

i tried E352 and didn't hear the grit waldorf microwave has.
It doesn't exist or i miss something.

I checked SSP and ER-301 videos. they sound nice, pristine yet not like older Waldorf and lack knobby interface.
I checked other wavetable osc videos and the only thing that came close is Waldorf NW1 but i read enough about it being buggy.
I would sell Microwave and go fully eurorack with wavetable if it gives me the same sound

What would come close? or simple truth is that eurorack can't nail the sound.
I wonder if anyone tried to achieve the same results

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Post by miles_macquarrie » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:40 am

Keep in mind you can load your own wavetables into the modules. The e352 can get pretty gritty with the right waves loaded in.

Also have a look at Piston Honda MK3 and Erica Synths Graphic VCO.

Both can be gritty right out of the box
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Post by peripatitis » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:42 am

I'd look at the flame 4 vox. That sounds closer to me.
I've sold my xt, I don't think you can replace it that way.

Btw I don't care what everyone else says for me the NW1 sounds nasal and completely unrelated with that waldorf sound.

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Post by Sanys » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:54 am

found this old thread. I wonder if anything changed since '09

viewtopic.php?t=4691

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macs4music
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Post by macs4music » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:40 pm

Waldorf's own wavetable module is probably as buggy as the microwave was. to be fair its as close as you can get.
Started with an Atari 1040STe, at least the timing was good....

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Post by Sanys » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:04 pm

Never had any issues with neither Microwave 1 nor XT

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Thighpaulsandra
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Post by Thighpaulsandra » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:08 pm

The NW1 sounds quite polite and thin in comparison with the Microwave 1 which in turn sounds thin in comparison with the PPG Wave 2.2. Having said that I've not found the NW1 or the Microwave to be buggy and they both have their own character which I find to be useful.

Thighp.

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Post by geremyf » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:21 pm

In the e352 you have to enable glitch mode (there are multiple levels of glitch). Otherwise it will be buttery smooth all the time.

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Post by Sinamsis » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:01 pm

I guess it really depends on what you do with your Microwave. I had one for a while and thought it was a wonderful synth. I recently sold mine mainly because I had too many synths and wanted to stream line things a bit. FWIW I felt like the various iterations of the Piston Honda were Scott's homage to the Microwave. Of course these are just oscillators, you need 12 db LPF. Personally, I have my PH mk III paired with a Korgasmatron at all times, I love it. And I do feel like the wavetables selected by Scott are also reminiscent of the MW. That said, even with a good oscillator and filter, you're still missing a lot, like the complex envelope. And of course that's only for one voice. The MW1 seems way ahead of its time to me, and combined with one of the modern controllers like the Stereoping it's a phenomenal instrument. You'd pay an arm and a leg to get remotely close with eurorack, and it would be much less efficient.

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Post by Pighood » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:28 pm

I've always lusted after the Kotelnikov, but I haven't the room for it.

I do have a Kermit, and that KINDA gets into that territory. KINDA.
Last edited by Pighood on Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Pighood » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:30 pm

Plus I need a really long broom 'andle to poke Wolfgang Palm to get into Euro. :hail:
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Post by LANDMIME! » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:26 am

Thighpaulsandra wrote:The NW1 sounds quite polite and thin in comparison with the Microwave 1 which in turn sounds thin in comparison with the PPG Wave 2.2. Having said that I've not found the NW1 or the Microwave to be buggy and they both have their own character which I find to be useful.

Thighp.
:tu: yup.

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Post by wavejockey » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:34 am

did you load the same watetables (those from XT and/or MW1) in the ER301 & the SSP?

then you can really start to compare

(owning both of them -SSP & MW xt-, i can say i don't want to compare them, as they both have such strong points that they exist in their own niche/place)

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Post by governor blacksnake » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:58 am

the piston honda mk3 was designed by one of the world's foremost microwave 1/prophet VS superfans, with special attention given to the bits of character that can't be described with language. I had a NW1 for a while, but the formant/spectral processing removed all of the life-affirming content from certain wavetables, and you couldn't turn it off.

peripatitis

Post by peripatitis » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:31 am

The xt (which I know) had some bugs, for example using the mono/unison click and quite many others but a bit on the minor side.
Of course the filters on the xt are digital and probably has a different character to the microwave 1.

Overall I preferred the xt sound. One thing to keep in mind of course is that their mod matrix is huge, replicating that in a modular realm would acquire a lot of modules.

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Post by dubonaire » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:33 am

governor blacksnake wrote:the piston honda mk3 was designed by one of the world's foremost microwave 1/prophet VS superfans, with special attention given to the bits of character that can't be described with language. I had a NW1 for a while, but the formant/spectral processing removed all of the life-affirming content from certain wavetables, and you couldn't turn it off.
You are making me desire a piston honda mk3.

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Post by clusterchord » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:21 am

beside the fidelity, 8bit DACs, and selection of the waves, chasing the MW/PPG sound has a lot to do with oscillator design and how the transposition is executed. this was a rather interesting text/analysis on the subject of transposition technology and resulting artifacts in early digital machines:

taxonomy of early digital synthesizers



i am somewhat obsessed with wavetabling in general, and have both generations of PPG, 2 and 2.3, a MW revision A, MW XT and Synthtech 350/370. (and plan to pickup Honda mk1 soon)

according to above text, PPG22/23 and MW both se Phase Accumulator. and indeed there is obvious aliasing and mirroring attributing to the trademark glassy sound. feed that into SSM2044 filter and you are in the ballpark.

earlier models like 360 and Wave 2 use Divide-by-N and have almost no aliasing. and in some ways transposition reminds me of changing speed on a magn. tape recorder. filter is CEM3320. most notable example of this are fem vox sounds on Tangerine Dream Exit. like the opening track Kiew Mission. i've made a somewhat similar sound in this piece:

https://soundcloud.com/clusterchord/ast ... t-part-two



for the 2.2/2.3 sound i am not sure what is the best iteration in euro. i can say i agree NW1 is completely different and sounds "processed". haven't tried Flame, but Harvestman seems much more like it. as for earlier PPG sound, imo SSSR Labs Kotelnikov has gotten into Wave 2 character quite well. no PPG wavetables, tho i noticed user wave loading has been added recently, so perhaps its possible. Synthtech is a lovely sound, but very different from old machines, very hifi, smooth and high resolution. glitch mode is great too, but invokes a different sort of dirt, not the "prehistoric" crust.
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Post by Sanys » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:09 am

thx for the input clusterchord
so besides Wabetable osc there should be Curtis filter, VCA... even then there is lo-fi DACs in these machines

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Post by Flexyflier » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:19 am

Thighpaulsandra wrote:The NW1 sounds quite polite and thin in comparison with the Microwave 1 which in turn sounds thin in comparison with the PPG Wave 2.2. Having said that I've not found the NW1 or the Microwave to be buggy and they both have their own character which I find to be useful.

Thighp.
Yeah my NW1 works great,not come across any bugs...in it.
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Post by Shledge » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:43 am

Graphic VCO is one of the most flexible ones out there. I think there is a bitcrush FX mode to make it have aliasing as seen in early wavetable synths.

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Post by clusterchord » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:33 am

Sanys wrote:thx for the input clusterchord
so besides Wabetable osc there should be Curtis filter, VCA... even then there is lo-fi DACs in these machines
you're welcome :)

Wave 2.2 and 2.3 use SSM2044 filter fed into CEM3360 vca.

Wave 2 uses CEM3320 fed into CEM3330 vca.
(instead of software env like others, it also has CEM3310 envelopes)

Microwave uses so-called "voice processors" also by Curtis, which consist of VCF and a stereo VCA iirc. revision A is CEM3389 and revision B CEM3387.


further, while wavetables in all these models are 8-bit, DA conversion is 8-bit on Wave 2 and 2.2, and 12-bit on 2.3 and Microwave.
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Post by The Grump » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:18 am

I've got a Microwave Rev A, and a Graphic VCO, and I'll see what I can do to get the latter to sound something similar to the former, though honestly, I would advise against selling your Microwave. You're not going to find anything that sounds quite like it, especially the filters. They are quite unique, and even if you can load the tables and reduce the bits correctly, you're not going to get the rest of the signal path, which is as important as the oscillators themselves.

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Post by Monotremata » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:41 am

Thighpaulsandra wrote:Having said that I've not found the NW1 or the Microwave to be buggy and they both have their own character which I find to be useful.

Thighp.
Yeah Id call the 'bugs' in the Microwave more like glitches, none of them are showstoppers and in the 20 years Ive had my XT nothing has kept it from doing what it does best.

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Post by Shledge » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:38 am

The Grump wrote:I've got a Microwave Rev A, and a Graphic VCO, and I'll see what I can do to get the latter to sound something similar to the former, though honestly, I would advise against selling your Microwave. You're not going to find anything that sounds quite like it, especially the filters. They are quite unique, and even if you can load the tables and reduce the bits correctly, you're not going to get the rest of the signal path, which is as important as the oscillators themselves.
They don't add to the "grit" of the sound - only the DACs do.

The filters and VCAs are not even unique, they're bog standard CEM chips. Easily replicated with equivalent CEM based modules.

(still, the microwave is a keeper, but mainly for the polyphony)

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Post by The Grump » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:38 pm

Shledge wrote: The filters and VCAs are not even unique, they're bog standard CEM chips. Easily replicated with equivalent CEM based modules.
Nobody has succeeded in doing so, to date, especially the filters. I'm not trying to cite voodoo, but subtleties do add up.

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