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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Final piece of the puzzle...
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Author Final piece of the puzzle...
blackbetty88
Hey wigglers,

After spending the last few years researching and buying and selling gear, I have come to the point where I think I may have set upon a setup where I can replicate/create the types of sounds & rhythms in my head and apply that in a musical context through production.

I've done much exploring and trial and error eg software or hardware, digital or analog, laptop or no laptop and many hybrids in between and conceptually what I have settled on is:
- E-RM multiclock (master clock)
- Beatstep pro (main sequencer)
- Soundcraft FX16ii mixer (all audio/effects through mixer)
- dreadbox erebus (synth 1)
- dreadbox hades (synth 2)
- volca bass (synth 3)
- roland tr8s (drum machine/sampler)
- vermona DRM1 mkii (drum machine)
- boss rc505 (looper)
- various effects (routed via aux in mixer)

Any piece of gear can be swapped out for a different make or model of the same type of gear but I believe having access to these 'instruments' or members in the band so to speak will allow me to create in a way that gets the paint down on the canvas quicker and more effectively when inspiration creeps up and taps me on the shoulder.

Now the final piece of gear I am thinking of buying is the Roland Handsonic HPD-20 which will be fed into the rc505 looper so I can make live loops on the fly as I play various rhythms with my hands/fingers. Most if not all my musical ideas are rhythmical and being able to quickly get these out through my hands and looped will be of great benefit…I think.

So I wanted to see what thoughts/feelings/recommendations/opinions/tips everyone and anyone had to not only the addition of the handsonic but to the entire setup in general?? All feedback be that positive or negative is welcome.

I understand there is the need for possibly a polysynth in place of one of my current synths as an example but the basic idea behind this selection of ingredients of gear is that it allows me to seamlessly (I hope) move between both production/track creation and more longer form live performance type practice/recording.

Everything seems to be working how I envisaged it so far but now with looking to add the handsonic I just want to be sure that there isn’t any unforeseen issues/hurdles I am not aware of??

Appreciate all your time and honesty.
Technologear?
Hey dude.

Polysynth- any purchase would need an inbuilt polyphonic sequencer as your BSP can't do polyphonic sequencing.
Alternatively you could play poly synth pads and stabs into the looper and play back loops. But rc505 lack of individual outs reduces your integration into your mixer system - you can't route loops onto separate channels.

BSP- as the brain/sequencer limits you to only 2 mono synths+drums. Fine if future purchases all have inbuilt sequencers that clock well to your erm master.

Handsonic- no onboard sequencer or quantisation options, so you'd need to be exceptionally good at hand drumming on it to get percussive loops that match the track bpm, plus be able to adapt to the latency (pad hit triggers the sound, that goes into the desk, then out an aux into the rc505). I predict that would be very difficult. On the rc505 you can't edit or shift the start end points of the recorded loop. Warts and all recording.

Try it out using your BSP: set it to control your DRM 1 and try and manually play the DRM, and record it as a loop into the rc505, while the tr8s is playing something. Then playback the loop.

The handsonic surface won't be significantly easier than the BSP pads. Quantisation was invented for a reason.

A MPC might be worth considering, especially if wanting to streamline into a live system.
MindMachine
Since I am a geezer, I pretty much come from the opposite side of what technologear offers. More from the performance side, I think the Handsonic is an awesome choice (and why would a physical hand percussion unit need a sequencer... play it into a loop if necessary). And any polyphonic is good. A polyphonic with a built in sequencer is gravy.

Your rig might be suited for a sampler like a Boss/Roland 404SX or 555. In addition to the looper RC-505 it could add a ton of preset sounds, stabs, sequences and acoustic samples. They also have pretty good effects built in.

I think your rig looks pretty sweet as is. I would put a Roland/Boss Dr. Sample next to the Handsonic.
blackbetty88
Technologear? wrote:
Hey dude.

Polysynth- any purchase would need an inbuilt polyphonic sequencer as your BSP can't do polyphonic sequencing.
Alternatively you could play poly synth pads and stabs into the looper and play back loops. But rc505 lack of individual outs reduces your integration into your mixer system - you can't route loops onto separate channels.

BSP- as the brain/sequencer limits you to only 2 mono synths+drums. Fine if future purchases all have inbuilt sequencers that clock well to your erm master.

Handsonic- no onboard sequencer or quantisation options, so you'd need to be exceptionally good at hand drumming on it to get percussive loops that match the track bpm, plus be able to adapt to the latency (pad hit triggers the sound, that goes into the desk, then out an aux into the rc505). I predict that would be very difficult. On the rc505 you can't edit or shift the start end points of the recorded loop. Warts and all recording.

Try it out using your BSP: set it to control your DRM 1 and try and manually play the DRM, and record it as a loop into the rc505, while the tr8s is playing something. Then playback the loop.

The handsonic surface won't be significantly easier than the BSP pads. Quantisation was invented for a reason.

A MPC might be worth considering, especially if wanting to streamline into a live system.


Hey mate,

Polysynth/BSP - yeah I realise that the limitations with the BSP. The plan is to eventually replace the BSP for a cirklon which will solve the issue of needing gear to have on board sequencers and the lack of the BSPs poly sequencing.

Handsonic - Ok this is what I want to know...I'd like to think my hand drumming skills are quite a bit better than average but if the setup won't allow me to do what I want it to do then that is a problem. One of the main reasons for using this combination of handsonic and looper is to not have quantisation. This allows me greater flexibility in my setup as a variation of everything else that is sequenced per step. Obviously if I can't get everything to stay in time with another this will sound like a dogs breakfast but if I can then that opens more possibilities when creating grooves/beats.

In my head I imagined that the handsonic mono output would be fed into the mono instrument in on the rc505 and then the rc505 would go into a channel on the desk. So one mixer channel would be dedicated to the rc505 basically. This way I could use my aux effects on this channel as I do for all the other mixer channels. Would this work and does this reduce/limit the latency you were referring to?

Haven't had a chance to try it out with your example as of yet but I will do.
Panason
blackbetty88 wrote:

- Beatstep pro (main sequencer)


I don't have one and never will but from what I've read in the forums this could be a regrettable choice as a main sequencer. Probably best to pony up for an MPC or Pyramid. The waiting time for a Cirklon is (currently) at least 2.5 years with no guarantee you will ever get one.
dubonaire
Panason wrote:
blackbetty88 wrote:

- Beatstep pro (main sequencer)


I don't have one and never will but from what I've read in the forums this could be a regrettable choice as a main sequencer. Probably best to pony up for an MPC or Pyramid. The waiting time for a Cirklon is (currently) at least 2.5 years with no guarantee you will ever get one.


LOL I don't know one person who has ordered a Cirklon and not got one when the time comes. Don't exaggerate. Have you seen the waiting time for EMS, why don't you obsess over that for a change?

To the OP, as we don't know the "the types of sounds & rhythms in [your] head", how can we possibly know what you need in your studio better than you after your two years of research? I will say though that a polysynth can also be a monosynth so I don't really get why anyone would not want a polysynth in their studio.
Panason
I'm not obssessing. I heard from someone else that he's been waiting for 2.5 years now (with recent email contact to confirm he's still on the list), and he has no reason to lie. That's a long time, and since Sequentix don't take money up front there is no guarantee that they will not simply stop making them in the next couple of years as has happened to every other piece of music gear sooner or later: discontinued.

Planning for a Cirklon is wishful thinking at this point.
dubonaire
Panason wrote:
I'm not obssessing. I heard from someone else that he's been waiting for 2.5 years now (with recent email contact to confirm he's still on the list), and he has no reason to lie. That's a long time, and since Sequentix don't take money up front there is no guarantee that they will not simply stop making them in the next couple of years as has happened to every other piece of music gear sooner or later: discontinued.

Planning for a Cirklon is wishful thinking at this point.


The waiting time I don't debate. The "no guarantee you will get one" is hyperbolic. But I see no problem with waiting there are plenty of interim solutions, and not everyone gels with the Cirklon. You basically mentioned the Cirklon purely to make a point about the waiting list. With the OP's gear list the OP will have no problem making music, just as no one ever had problems making music before Sequentix started making sequencers. I would have no problems using the BSP as a sequencer. If you can't sequence with a BSP you don't know what you are doing.
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