FH-2 envelope ADSR values MIDI CC control?

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progendev
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FH-2 envelope ADSR values MIDI CC control?

Post by progendev » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:18 am

First off - I'm a huge fan of your modules and have more of your products in my racks than any other single manufacturer. This includes a variety of ES-* modules, three Disting, two FH-2's, an FH-1, and so far five FHX-* expanders. Now, with the obligatory brown-nosing out of the way...

I've been digging through the FH-2 manual and can't seem to figure this out.
Is it possible to configure a MIDI/CV voice's envelope settings such that the ADR timings and S level can be directly controlled via separate MIDI CC's? If so, which menu would I find this in?

If not, I would like to formally request such an option. Onboard envelopes would be a huge space-saving feature, but they are only useful (for me, at least) if i have a direct way to manipulate the envelope timings on the fly. The FH-2 menu is too deep to "play" any of the settings directly from its own interface. But I've got multiple compact MIDI knob boxes that would be perfect for dedicated ADSR controls.

- Ryan
@chronomodulator

Shor
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Post by Shor » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:18 pm

If you check the box for Show Portamento/Transpose/Envelopes you will get some options to define midi cc for ADSR.

progendev
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Post by progendev » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:51 pm

Oh interesting, in the external config tool, eh? I had problems with the Chrome tool not connecting properly in the past so I switched to configuring the unit exclusively via the onboard menus. I didn't realize there were settings that were available in that tool that weren't available on the unit itself... Thats a little disappointing but I guess its a good thing the options already exist regardless...

And to be clear, these settings allow one to define 4 individual MIDI CCs for a specific voice's A, D, S, & R values? Maybe even a 5th for the overall envelope amount?

Anyway, I'll check it out. Thanks for the info!

Shor
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Post by Shor » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:06 am

Oh wow you set it up on the device? That seems like hard work.
Did you download the html-file of the tool when you ran it? (I think Os also got separate downloads now as well for win/mac).

But yeah you can define 4 individual midi cc's for this, and even more. Check the tool and you'll see.

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manglepup
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Post by manglepup » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:34 pm

progendev wrote:Oh interesting, in the external config tool, eh? I had problems with the Chrome tool not connecting properly in the past so I switched to configuring the unit exclusively via the onboard menus. I didn't realize there were settings that were available in that tool that weren't available on the unit itself... Thats a little disappointing but I guess its a good thing the options already exist regardless...

And to be clear, these settings allow one to define 4 individual MIDI CCs for a specific voice's A, D, S, & R values? Maybe even a 5th for the overall envelope amount?

Anyway, I'll check it out. Thanks for the info!
I had the same problem with the tool when it was the web-based one. Since switching to the stand-alone tool I've not had the same issues on the same PC (surface pro 4).

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os
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Post by os » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:41 am

I didn't realize there were settings that were available in that tool that weren't available on the unit itself... Thats a little disappointing but I guess its a good thing the options already exist regardless...
Everything's available in both places. Much easier in the config tool though.

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Post by progendev » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:21 pm

Oh fantastic! While i did find the separate app more concenient at first, Ive gotten fairly proficient with the onboard menus and really like the indepence of being able to fully configure the module directly without a computer or cheat sheet required. It blows every other MIDI to CV converter (that I've tried) out of the water.

Which menu / section on the device lets me define MIDI CC's to control the ADSR timings? I would assume it's a Configuration option, not a Preset, but I don't know.

One more question for ya, Os.

Currently in the melody/pitched half of my dual-7u live rig, an FH-2 and 2 expanders are the only black modules in the case. I would really love an all silver case but the FH-2 is such a vital component that I would hate to lose. Would you ever consider producing a run of alternate (silver) faceplates for the FH-2 and FHX-* modules? These particular modules are utilitarian and straightforward enough that they dont even really need graphics, just aluminum panels with properly aligned holes. I talked to Wes from Grayscale about commissioning some silver panels and he recommended that I ask you about the FPE files for the panel layouts. If selling alternate panels yourself is not viable, would that be something you're willing to provide?


Thanks in advance,

- Ryan

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os
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Post by os » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:29 am

You're looking for the Mappings menu, under Configuration.

I can send you the files so you can get your own panels made. Email me.

progendev
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Post by progendev » Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:43 pm

So umm, in terms of "the menu / section on the device lets me define MIDI CC's to control the ADSR timings" ...

You're referring to the Mapping definitions presented like this?
Mapping 15
Channel 8 CC 29
Target MIDI/CV 2
Item 19
Let me know if I'm missing something here...

That definition only appeared after using the Configurator tool to create the mappings and send them to the FH-2.

But with no context regarding what "Item 19" is (it's not the output number), nor what target "MIDI/CV 2" represents (it's not referring to the 2nd MIDI/CV voice as this mapping was for voice #3, so I assume it's just a generic second category of MIDI/CV params), changing those settings on the device itself feels a bit like a game of Russian roulette.

More importantly: it does not appear that one can actually CREATE these envelope CC mappings directly on the device. But if you have previously created them on the external tool, you *technically* can change the MIDI assignments of an existing entry but as mentioned, the only way you'll know which one you're editing is if you know exactly which channel and CC it is currently assigned to, and you have not assigned that CC to any other destinations (because you will again have to guess which Item is the one you want to change).

So in practice, this pretty much means you'll need to pull up the PC tool just to be able to confidently change it directly on the device, simply to be sure that you're changing the right thing. And you HAVE to use the PC tool to create new assignments.

Not the end of the world, but I'll be keeping an eye out for future firmware updates in case you ever decide to enhance the UI to facilitate the full, standalone creation and editing of these envelope, LFO, etc CC assignments on the device. But it's also understandable if such an endeavour is simply not worth the effort, for either the developer of the feature OR its potential users.

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os
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Post by os » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:58 am

And you HAVE to use the PC tool to create new assignments.
Not true.

Granted the items are a little cryptic. They're there currently so you can change them if you're desperate - I never anticipated anyone really wanting to do it without a computer attached. I can make those names more descriptive though so it's easier to do on the device itself.

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Post by progendev » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:44 pm

Well I appreciate that you're receptive to that enhancement. Ultimately though, if I'm the first person that's brought it up, you're probably right to have de-prioritized such a feature. Perhaps I am a masochist for choosing to menu dive, but I feel a bit more in control and independent. And most importantly, I know I can quickly make whatever changes I want/need when playing live.

All that said, even for me the envelope capabilities are tertiary at best, and would be the first thing to nix if I needed the output for any other duty.

For instance - those fading LFOs are the bee's knees.

OT - is it possible to assign an specific LFO to sum into a pitch CV coming out of a given output? With CC 1 control of LFO level, this could provide a classic mod wheel controlled vibrato on a voice. And then with another CC controlling LFO rate, we could have all sorts of fun.

Thanks!
Ryan

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os
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Post by os » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:51 am

Yes, you can activate the LFO on the pitch output.

progendev
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Post by progendev » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:19 pm

My goodness, I've been using the FH-2 for over a year and have barely used the Preset settings at all. I've read through the manual numerous times but clearly the implications of many of its statements indicate a wealth of possibilities that's easy to miss when you're just hunting for the answer to a different question. Seems I've just scratched the surface of this device's capabilities!

Exciting times!

Thanks Os!

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Re:

Post by soon_come » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:25 pm

os wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:58 am
And you HAVE to use the PC tool to create new assignments.
Not true.

Granted the items are a little cryptic. They're there currently so you can change them if you're desperate - I never anticipated anyone really wanting to do it without a computer attached. I can make those names more descriptive though so it's easier to do on the device itself.
+1 vote for more descriptive names. I ran into this over the weekend, when trying to do exactly this... I wanted to configure MIDI CCs for ADSR values on one of the envelope outputs. When I saw the whole "Item X" notation I was totally confused and had to stop the session. Judging from previous comments, this is much much easier via the tool, so I'll try that next... but I do think these could be better-labeled. Seems impossible to do it on the device now, a bit like flying blind. I wonder if it's feasible to do a MIDI learn mode for items in this menu, where you can click and then wiggle the preferred knob/fader. :hmm:

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