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Roland MC-707 Groovebox
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Author Roland MC-707 Groovebox
Tajnost
Want to gather all the information about new Roland groovebox here.




What are your expectations?

Is it a new MPC / Ableton / Deluge / Octatrack killer or not really?

My first q is: how much RAM it has and can it read samples directly from the SD card. How fast is it. TR-8s is quite nice but sample workflow could be much faster /easier, so wondering if 707 is better in this area.
gringostar
Until it can slice and sequence what it samples and has MIDI tracks that don’t eat up the drum/tone/sample tracks, and those MIDI tracks can actually send CC messages, it’s pretty much DOA and I’ll stick with my TR-8s.

If Roland ads those features then it easily kills the Digitakt while being a viable option to everything but the Octatrack, especially in a live setting.
anselmi
sample management would be my main concern with this thing

also: while the clip-based architecture is great to solve transitions (instead of the limited pattern paradigm) I feel that 16x8 is too little for a long live set...I would need more than this or have individual drum mutes in a single clip to have more articulation

total memory isn´t really an issue to me since I almost don´t use loops so I can load a quite big collection of one-shot samples and then just use the extensive synthesis capabilities of the machine

I´d love to have CC control or synth parameters since 3 knobs per track is too little for my style of playing

with all this stuff checked I´d jump over it in no time
Licudi
Full 121-page manual is here:

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/MC-707_Reference_eng01_W.pd f
h4ndcrafted
I like the depth and layers you can get, but yes it needs dedicated midi tracks.

Why they bother with timestretch on this and the pioneer is beyond me , it’s only good as an effect because it sounds terrible on both boxes, unless you go wild.

I’m interested to know if you can send indivifual drums on a drum channel to send fx ? It would be terrible if it was just global. Assuming you can like on most workstations, and this seems to have part of that architecture in it from the romplers.

What do you guys think on the price? I feel it’s a little steep, like 25% too steep.
anselmi
Licudi wrote:
Full 121-page manual is here:

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/MC-707_Reference_eng01_W.pd f


thanks!

there is a drum mute mode (using the pads), so this is a big issue solved for me

h4ndcrafted wrote:
I’m interested to know if you can send indivifual drums on a drum channel to send fx ? It would be terrible if it was just global. Assuming you can like on most workstations, and this seems to have part of that architecture in it from the romplers.


yep...I think the same...you can use other tracks/clips for individual process of drums...even with way more synthesis power...just load the sample/s into the tone engine and you could stack 4 of them, got filter, LFOs, EGs, insert fx

I think that I don´t need to individually process ALL the drums so this hybrid approach could work for me

But I agree that a simple FX send per drum pad should be here too

h4ndcrafted wrote:
Why they bother with timestretch on this and the pioneer is beyond me , it’s only good as an effect because it sounds terrible on both boxes, unless you go wild.


agree

Quote:
What do you guys think on the price? I feel it’s a little steep, like 25% too steep.


15% for me...I think that $850 it´s a fair price...and $400 for the MC-101
anselmi
UPDATE: parameters in a drum track are editable per pad!

SlayerBadger! screaming goo yo w00t

level
pan
coarse tuning +24/-24 semitones
fine tuning +50 / -50 cents
release
envelope mode sustain/ no-sustain
reverb send
delay send


Everything editable via menu, so realtime performanece could be tricky...anyway, a combination of this with some extra clip in another track for more immediate tweaking should be enough to cover a lot of territory

This machine started to be more and more tempting
Panason
You can assign stuff to the encoders for realtime performance but it's still overpriced for what it is. It has 2 MIDI outs so perhaps they will add MIDI sequencing later, ha ha, .... it would be an awkward add-on.
h4ndcrafted
I wonder if it has enough power to shift function two or three more levels of encoder , they could of been colour referenced.

Would add so much value to it.
h4ndcrafted
I need to look at the manual, can you add samples to each of the layers, or is that only for the onboard sounds ?

I thought is was nearer to a grand for some reason, still think its slightly over priced, but only by £100 or so. Not based on any cost knowledge, just what I would pay next to the competition.
Red Electric Rainbow
Roland MC-707 Groovebox Demo
anselmi
h4ndcrafted wrote:
I need to look at the manual, can you add samples to each of the layers, or is that only for the onboard sounds ?


as usual, Roland manuals sucks, and this is no exception...the way it´s organized is convoluted and nonsense

anyway, it seems that you can assign your own samples to each part, as PCM is one of the oscillator types and this can be both INT ("the internal waveforms of the MC-707") or "SAMP" ("the waveforms loaded into the project")

beyond that, that the synthesis engine has very interesting options for a groovebox, with 4 oscillators that can be samples or VA (with PWM over all waveforms). Also sync, ring and 2 kind of xmod that seems to be active even in PCM waveforms.

there is dedicated ADSR envelopes for pitch, filter and amp, plus LFO, 2 kind of filters (one classic Roland ROMpler TVF and one "VCF" that seems to be a VA kind of filter). they both have various modes. At the output there is an EQ and insert FX, plus send for the reverb and delay master FX.


Quote:
I thought is was nearer to a grand for some reason, still think its slightly over priced, but only by £100 or so. Not based on any cost knowledge, just what I would pay next to the competition.


yep
seychmar
Still no match for my old MV8000. Now that is a real sampler/sequencer/groovebox. All Roland need to do is issue a smaller, modern version of it with inbuilt screen.
anselmi
By watching the Loopop video again I realized how deep is the drum mode!
You can stack up to 4 samples PER PAD with their own settings, plus filter and envelopes.

We need a full video about the sound design capabilities and workflow. Please Loopop, this machine deserve it
h4ndcrafted
anselmi wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:
I need to look at the manual, can you add samples to each of the layers, or is that only for the onboard sounds ?


as usual, Roland manuals sucks, and this is no exception...the way it´s organized is convoluted and nonsense

anyway, it seems that you can assign your own samples to each part, as PCM is one of the oscillator types and this can be both INT ("the internal waveforms of the MC-707") or "SAMP" ("the waveforms loaded into the project")

beyond that, that the synthesis engine has very interesting options for a groovebox, with 4 oscillators that can be samples or VA (with PWM over all waveforms). Also sync, ring and 2 kind of xmod that seems to be active even in PCM waveforms.

there is dedicated ADSR envelopes for pitch, filter and amp, plus LFO, 2 kind of filters (one classic Roland ROMpler TVF and one "VCF" that seems to be a VA kind of filter). they both have various modes. At the output there is an EQ and insert FX, plus send for the reverb and delay master FX.


Quote:
I thought is was nearer to a grand for some reason, still think its slightly over priced, but only by £100 or so. Not based on any cost knowledge, just what I would pay next to the competition.


yep


I found the loopop youtube video in the end which shows you can, but he didnt go into it yet, so thanks SlayerBadger!

Ah didnt see yr second post on this yes, its freaking deep, I'm liking this thing!
h4ndcrafted
seychmar wrote:
Still no match for my old MV8000. Now that is a real sampler/sequencer/groovebox. All Roland need to do is issue a smaller, modern version of it with inbuilt screen.


I hear you, but this is a clip based nnon linear seq, maybe the MV has a pattern mode, never used one.

I think roland realises a lot of ppl dont need something as deep as the Akais and Mv's but would like the option too.

It's affordable, jamable and fun I should think. Did the MV have a loop mode? thats a big sell here. Seems to be more of an SP555 with a rompler and VA engine, rather than the sample centric monster that is the MV.
seychmar
The last version of the MV software (version 3.5) also included pattern mode as well as other goodies like TR style drum programming. In addition, the MV has an excellent MIDI sequencer and can sync to all kinds of devices via midi clock and midi time code. Plus digital audio outputs. It’s only downside is it’s massive size.
tioJim
seychmar wrote:
The last version of the MV software (version 3.5) also included pattern mode as well as other goodies like TR style drum programming. In addition, the MV has an excellent MIDI sequencer and can sync to all kinds of devices via midi clock and midi time code. Plus digital audio outputs. It’s only downside is it’s massive size.


I've always been surprised Roland never built on the MV8000. Afaik they only did the MV8800 because they had to meet RoHS compliance in Europe.

I've always GAS'd for one but never pulled the trigger.
jbuonacc
some of what i've written in the GS thread after reading the manual a bit:

Quote:
really quite interested in this thing. i was originally thinking it would be great paired with the TR-8S (of course it would), but it might actually replace it for me.

if i can sync this to Ableton via USB and record seamless loops from software (using "PC" as source) then this might do exactly what i'm trying to achieve with the TR-8S.

as far as i can see it only works with "loops" and not one-shot samples? (as in you can't assemble a kit of user samples and sequence a patter with them?) even if so, i might actually be ok with that.

EDIT: looks like it can (!!). not only that, but it looks like you can load your own samples into Tone, Drum, and Loop tracks.


Quote:
i wonder if all "user samples" need to be imported via SD card, or if the samples recorded by the Loop device are available to use in Tone/Drum tracks as well. that would be great, i'd almost be surprised if you couldn't.

it's really going to need a Truncate function at least, not seeing that anywhere.

cool that you can set loop points on your user samples. not seeing any way to modulate the loop point (via LFO, etc) though, which would open up a lot of possibilities.

actually, from what i can see, as far as recording this won't act as a typical "sampler" but more of a looper or re-sampler. not seeing any way to load a sound from the Looper recording "pool" (in Octatrack speak) into the Tone/Drum tracks. (??) looks like the only way to use samples in the Tone/Drum tracks is to import/load them from the SD card. anything that you record is a loop that's 1-8 bars long. no real sample editing functions beyond start and end point (with no way to truncate/discard the unused part of the sample). (??) looks like you're not going to be able to sample sounds via the mic/line inputs and use those sounds in a drum kit.

...but HOLY **** is this thing deeeep. the synthesis engine is actually seriously impressive, and is actually not entirely sample-based. looks like the "VA" waveforms are more than just static samples of traditional waveforms. ??

i don't think i've seen it mentioned yet - this thing pretty much has a Boss GT-100 fx processor inside it, including the whole guitar amp simulator. wow, i was not expecting that. not able to run as many fx at once (AmpSim plus one fx after it), but with re-sampling you're pretty much unlimited in what you can do. i was sort of regretting that i recently sold my BOSS Katana amp, but this pretty much has one built in.

this thing is just unbelievable, i think i'm completely sold on it. holy cow.


also, it does look like it has fx per track/channel (MFX) in addition to the Total (master) fx. awesome.


Quote:
Baseck on the MC-101:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2CtwVrAwXb/

i have a feeling these are going to be very popular once everyone realizes what they can do. the 101 (even without the extra features of the 707) will be the next BOSS SP-x0x (to some degree, even without external sampling). the 707 will do what most Octatrack users always wanted. putting aside "vintage sampler/DAC modelling" these are almost exactly what anyone that was hoping for an AIRA sampler could want (and i'd be surprised if you couldn't come up with something very close to the "sound of a vintage sampler" using the internal fx - the TR-8S does a decent job of this). well, besides the fact that they don't really sample in a way that most people would want (yet?), but with the internal re-sampling the sky is the limit. if you can re-sample and "bounce" tracks in the way that i'm thinking it can then you could probably record your own 'Sgt. Peppers' masterpiece using just one of these.

i was almost completely uninterested when i first saw the announcement, but the more i look into them i'm just shocked with what they've done with these. my mind is going all over the place thinking of what's possible with these machines. of course i can already do any of this ITB, but to have it all in one machine for live use (while being able to interface perfectly with the DAW at home) is exactly what i've been waiting for.

still waiting to see how certain thing work (like how one might pull of a seamless live set with the 707), but these are the most exciting products i've seen in a loooong time. similar to how the TR-8S was enough to make me buy another hardware drum machine. the knob/slider interface on these sets them apart from pretty much anything else out these.


Quote:
i'd need to see how it works in person, but it looks like you can load four different samples per pad (if using Tone tracks), which can then be played back randomly for a sort of round robin function.

i just noticed that it also offers an "analog feel" parameter which should be able to avoid the "machine gun effect".


Quote:
yeah, pg. 63... for Tone tracks only, not Drum tracks. it can cycle or random play each of the four partials based on velocity. so you'd need to set it up and edit velocity to fine-tune it.

also for Tone tracks you can set up a key range for each of the four partials.

so, not exactly what you guys are asking for, but still pretty useful.


as was mentioned, there is "random pitch depth" for Drum sounds (pg. 76). it also mentions WMT velocity control which has a Random setting (to switch between waves) via velocity, but i'm not sure what this means.


Quote:
actually, it looks like you can use up to four samples/waves per Drum pad (pg. 45-46), and use velocity for random (round robin) playback. cool. EDIT: if this is set to Random you don't even need to control it via velocity, it'll just randomly play one of the four samples/waves assigned to that pad. awesome. hopefully it's "intelligent random" and won't play back the same sample twice in a row.

so it looks like it does sort of do the Elektron "sample locking/switching" (per Drum pad) but via velocity.


this thing is f***ing bonkers. unreal.
sutekina bipu-on
gringostar wrote:
Until it can slice and sequence what it samples and has MIDI tracks that don’t eat up the drum/tone/sample tracks, and those MIDI tracks can actually send CC messages, it’s pretty much DOA and I’ll stick with my TR-8s.

If Roland ads those features then it easily kills the Digitakt while being a viable option to everything but the Octatrack, especially in a live setting.


It seems more geared towards people for whom the TR-8S didnt quite check all their boxes. I love the TR-8S to death like you and for me it probably couldn't be more perfect. For my workflow I'd never swap my 8S for the 707 but I can easily imagine for a lot of people, it's just what they needed.

I have noticed a lot of TR-8S going for sale on Reverb for 550 or less shipped which is indicating to me a lot of TR-8S owners are probably moving the MC-707 if they see it's the kind of device that works for them more.

The MC-101 though.... I can 100% see myself messing with that. It's like the modern day QY100.
rew_
As best I can tell this doesn't have a roll button?
DiscoDevil
sutekina bipu-on wrote:


The MC-101 though.... I can 100% see myself messing with that. It's like the modern day QY100.



I don't believe the 101 can sequence external gear though?
gringostar
sutekina bipu-on wrote:

It seems more geared towards people for whom the TR-8S didnt quite check all their boxes. I love the TR-8S to death like you and for me it probably couldn't be more perfect. For my workflow I'd never swap my 8S for the 707 but I can easily imagine for a lot of people, it's just what they needed.

I have noticed a lot of TR-8S going for sale on Reverb for 550 or less shipped which is indicating to me a lot of TR-8S owners are probably moving the MC-707 if they see it's the kind of device that works for them more.

The MC-101 though.... I can 100% see myself messing with that. It's like the modern day QY100.


I think a lot of people wanted the TR-8s to be the digitakt killer when in reality it’s the TR-8 with the model add on. What’s nice though is that with the 707 and 8s Roland seems to be inching towards a full sampler, not the looper that’s on the 707, or the playback that’s on the 101/707/8s, and not the playback 404, but a legit sampler like the S50, S770, and V synth.
h4ndcrafted
Maybe the MV flag ship , clip based , variphrase monster is yet to come. With oled touch screen and high quality encoders.

I can dream


Haven’t got to the nitty in the manual, are samples only 44.1 ?
Panason
gringostar wrote:


I think a lot of people wanted the TR-8s to be the digitakt killer


This will seem like trolling to some but IMO the MC101 IS the Digitakt killer for the majority of the target market.
It does stereo samples, it can run on batteries and uses an SD card for drag&drop sample upload-no messing around with transfer software- these are the most wanted features missing from the Elektron box, IMO. And, the Roland has better FX, a synth engine, and just sounds better- not hard to do when comparing to an elektron machine! razz
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