Select bus breakout

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javes777
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Select bus breakout

Post by javes777 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:51 am

Hi Os

Where is the select bus breakout manual / instructions please? Not the assembly instructions.

Thanks

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os
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Post by os » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:17 am

There isn't one. What would you like to know?

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Post by javes777 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:30 am

How to use it for my (now 8) distings and general cv? Does a save midi message save everything from these 9 modules without doing anything on them?

How do you save? If I’ve read it correctly, a cc need to be high when the program change is sent for the save?

How does the polyphonic feature work? Is it just round robin with no options? Will that polyphony spill onto the general cv?

Any future plans for select bus on the fh2?

Thanks

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os
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Post by os » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:08 am

How to use it for my (now 8) distings and general cv? Does a save midi message save everything from these 9 modules without doing anything on them?
You have to enable the recall bus on the modules, but after that, yes.
How do you save? If I’ve read it correctly, a cc need to be high when the program change is sent for the save?
That's the one.
How does the polyphonic feature work? Is it just round robin with no options? Will that polyphony spill onto the general cv?
It's documented in the user manual. There's no interaction between disting and General CV.
Any future plans for select bus on the fh2?
No, it's not physically wired for it.

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Sandrine
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Post by Sandrine » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:52 pm

Can somebody please tell me what the quiescent state on the CV bus is? High or Low?
The schemaitics on Select Bus are conflicting
https://llllllll.co/t/teletype-i2c-sele ... idge/17760

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os
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Post by os » Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:26 am

It's high.

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Post by Sandrine » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:31 am

os wrote:It's high.
Thanks!!

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Joey P.
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Re: Select bus breakout

Post by Joey P. » Mon May 11, 2020 3:59 pm

I just bought a pair of these that have already been assembled. I cannot get anything on the select bus to respond. I've tried sending it patch change from Ableton into the MIDI input as well as going case to case from MIDI output to MIDI input.

For example:

Metron and Voltage Block in same case.....no problem sending patch changes from the Metron to control the VB.

Move the VB into another case w/ Select Bus Breakout in each case, hook MIDI out of Metron case to MIDI in of VB case, VB doesn't respond.

I've also tried Rene and TEMPE both sending and receiving. All combinations of sending/receiving works between modules in a single case, but does not work from case to case w/ the SBBO in each case. Also cannot send MIDI patch change (Tried every MIDI channel).

I am getting voltage from pins 4/5 MIDI out when I make the patch change from the connected select bus, so I know they work.

So question 1....should it work the way I'm trying to use it? question 2, what is the jumper for?

Thanks,

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os
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Re: Select bus breakout

Post by os » Tue May 12, 2020 2:34 am

The jumper connects the MIDI in port to the select bus.

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Joey P.
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Re: Select bus breakout

Post by Joey P. » Tue May 12, 2020 8:40 am

So the jumper is in place, as it should be for MIDI in use.

I tried something very simple....a MIDI pedal that sends control changes to Channel 1....confirmed working with a HW synth.

Plugged into MIDI in of SB Breakout. Breakout in a case with a Voltage Block, TEMPE, and RENE II (set to receive). No other Select Bus devices and nothing transmitting.

Patch changes from MIDI pedal in to SB Breakout do not change Select Bus modules.....that should work, correct? I'm not missing something simple?

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os
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Re: Select bus breakout

Post by os » Tue May 12, 2020 8:47 am

If by patch change you mean MIDI program change on channel 1, yes.

I seem to recall Make Noise saying they had to adjust a resistor value on the breakout to get it to work well with their stuff. You might want to ask them about it.

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Joey P.
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Re: Select bus breakout

Post by Joey P. » Tue May 12, 2020 9:37 am

Thanks OZ....your confirmation that is should work gave me the motivation to try again this AM.

I got it to work with the TEMPI sending patches from my Prophet (which can easily send bank/program changes that conform to MIDI standard, so the module itself is working. Will keep working on the other modules.

Thanks!

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Joey P.
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Re: Select bus breakout

Post by Joey P. » Tue May 12, 2020 10:10 am

So it seems when RENE is hooked up to the bus, even in select bus FOLLOW or FREE mode, the Tempi stops responding. Perhaps as you said, it's a load issue on the ES output that requires a resistor change. But really, Rene isn't something I need to control via MIDI program change, as it is simple enough to send a CV value from Live to the Z axis to change states. It's the Metron that I'm really trying control.

EDIT:

I'm able to get the VB in one case to respond to the Metron from one Breakout to the other. So the good news is that they function correctly.

I think it's just figuring out the data to send out of MIDI. I put a MIDI monitor on the MIDI out of the Metron into Ableton and it's just showing a patch change event. I can even mirror that out a Live MIDI port into the the Breakout>VB and the VB switches. But if I send a patch change from a LIVE clip over that same output to the VB, there is no response. Tried sending bank/patch as well.

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Re: Select bus breakout

Post by Urs » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:51 am

Hi os et al,

I've been debugging some stuff with the ES breakout. Unfortunately in one setup (case with flying bus board) I get some bleed through of the MIDI in onto the CV Gate when driving from an external source. Meaning, I get short bursts of Gate events when sending MIDI. In another case (solid bus board) I don't. Both cases work fine with Varigate 8+: At no time when hammering out MIDI messages from Varigate do I get a high on Bus Gate. Swapped bus cable, did everything I could think of.

Do you have any ideas? Might this be related to the issues Make Noise have experienced?

Cheers,

- U
guy from u-he

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Sandrine
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Re: Select bus breakout

Post by Sandrine » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:33 am

Urs wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:51 am
Hi os et al,

I've been debugging some stuff with the ES breakout. Unfortunately in one setup (case with flying bus board) I get some bleed through of the MIDI in onto the CV Gate when driving from an external source. Meaning, I get short bursts of Gate events when sending MIDI. In another case (solid bus board) I don't. Both cases work fine with Varigate 8+: At no time when hammering out MIDI messages from Varigate do I get a high on Bus Gate. Swapped bus cable, did everything I could think of.

Do you have any ideas? Might this be related to the issues Make Noise have experienced?

Cheers,

- U
So you're still using the bus gate but not the CV (selectbus) line?
I guess it's transforming over through capacitance created by all the parallel lines then. Lowering the impedance at the receiving (gate) end should resolve this.. try 10K, 5K, 2K etc to high side
You could also try a small cap at the ES optocoupler output to soften the spur (again try 50p, 100p, 470p, .001uF) thus reducing the energy of parallel inductance

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Re: Select bus breakout

Post by Urs » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:27 am

Sandrine wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:33 am
So you're still using the bus gate but not the CV (selectbus) line?
I use both. Bus CV for MIDI Program Changes and Start/Stop, Bus Gate for clocks.

However, when sending just MIDI through the ES Breakout, apparently there can be short burst-like gates on the Bus Gate. Hence, sending any MIDI to the Select Bus may trigger envelopes which can trigger to Bus Gate.

We built two ES Select Bus Breakouts and it happens with both, it's certainly not a soldering mistake. It does not happen with the Varigate 8+ which sends MIDI on Select Bus and a clock on Bus Gate.

It's not really my intention to modify the two units we have, it's merely my intention to understand what's going on and whether there's a known fix. So that, if our customers run into this, we have a quick solution for them. It might not necessarily be a problem with the ES units, it might be a systemic problem with certain types of bus board setups (the problem does not appear in one case, but I have not gotten to the bottom of this)

The Select Bus Breakout would be a tempting module to recommend to send MIDI SysEx to our modules for configuration and management of options.
guy from u-he

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os
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Re: Select bus breakout

Post by os » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:56 am

The Select Bus Breakout doesn't even make an electrical connection to the Bus Gate (beyond the header), so there's definitely some weird coupling going on here.

@Sandrine's suggestions sound reasonable.

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