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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

newb: Effects for Neutron as first module
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author newb: Effects for Neutron as first module
StrangeCaptain
Howdy from Detroit(ish),
First real post, i've been reading a ton on here.

I always shied away from modular (for dumb reasons like monophony) I bought a Volca Modular to see if I would like it and two days after receiving it I found a Behringer Neutron for $209 new...

so that should arrive Wednesday.
In the meantime I'm thinking I'm gonna DIY (kit) some modules and start a homemade case etc.

I can solder and measure etc.

What are some suitable modules to compliment a Neutron?
-bonus if they are kits


Thanks!!!
Yes Powder
Get a Befaco Rampage kit.
You can do a ton of stuff with it. It's basically an alternative to Maths, or Serge DSUG.
coolshirtdotjpg
The neutron is great because its self contained and have everything you'd need to make a track, except a sequencer. That would be the first thing I'd get, unless you are planning on sequencing externally. You could also get something like Plaits and send it into the neutron (diy it if you want). The filter is... well it's cool, but I would consider adding an additional filter such as the SEM20 (for the oberheim sound, which should work well with the rest of the neutron architecture) or the curtis filter from DSI, or really any other filter that's not insanely aggressive to provide some variety to the neutron.

I would also say try not to go overboard. The neutron really is a solid starter synth because it has everything you need to make great music. If you can't make interesting music with it on it's own, I would wait until you've mastered it before jumping onto other stuff.
MapacheRaper
+1 for the rampage.

I would check also ornament and crime, plaits, a LPG...




It's peanut butter jelly time!
StrangeCaptain
Yes Powder wrote:
Get a Befaco Rampage kit.
You can do a ton of stuff with it. It's basically an alternative to Maths, or Serge DSUG.


Awesome! thanks!

looks like there is a decent difference between the kit and the assembled one, I'm keeping my eye out for a Build 3 sell 2 opportunity as well
StrangeCaptain
coolshirtdotjpg wrote:
The neutron is great because its self contained and have everything you'd need to make a track, except a sequencer. That would be the first thing I'd get, unless you are planning on sequencing externally. You could also get something like Plaits and send it into the neutron (diy it if you want). The filter is... well it's cool, but I would consider adding an additional filter such as the SEM20 (for the oberheim sound, which should work well with the rest of the neutron architecture) or the curtis filter from DSI, or really any other filter that's not insanely aggressive to provide some variety to the neutron.

I would also say try not to go overboard. The neutron really is a solid starter synth because it has everything you need to make great music. If you can't make interesting music with it on it's own, I would wait until you've mastered it before jumping onto other stuff.


great info thanks

I have a Digitakt for sequencing
Nightly Closures
You’re going to really enjoy it (neutron). I would get some more modulation right away. You don’t really have to stick it in a case; which is nice because it leaves more space for other modules in your case and you’ll have easy access to the rear panel of the neutron. Straight away, you can sequence it from your digitakt and the combo of the two is a blast. Erica and others offer good deals on quality diy stuff. If I could make a recommendation: go slow. The neutron offers so much as it is, that if you get an additional module one at a time you’ll maximize the experience. This method will also point you in a direction rather than getting a bunch of modules and being overwhelmed. Have fun!!! This forum is amazing.
abelovesfun
A bit left field perhaps, but I used a Neutron as the example patch for my Matrix Mixer roll out. Here are three patches showing how a matrix mixer can expand a Neutron (or any other modules for that matter):
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLu-mgWnY51L3TyXMU3xh4RL4K-YIaDPb 6

Here is one of the vids


In another you can hear me make the LFO sound like a robot.
sutekina bipu-on
I had a neutron + a few modules setup for a little while and had a lot of fun with it. I was also surprised how functional it was.

Step sequencer (i had a modseq but anything works)
LFO
Comparator
Mixer (super essential for a neutron based setup!)
Dual VCA
Dual VCS

Insane how much more useful it gets with only a few extra modules. I have a bunch of neutron + a few module videos on my phone just sitting there seriously, i just don't get it It really is an under-rated starting setup. People are selling 3340 vco modules for half the price of a whole neutron.
StrangeCaptain
abelovesfun wrote:
A bit left field perhaps, but I used a Neutron as the example patch for my Matrix Mixer roll out. Here are three patches showing how a matrix mixer can expand a Neutron (or any other modules for that matter):
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLu-mgWnY51L3TyXMU3xh4RL4K-YIaDPb 6

Here is one of the vids


In another you can hear me make the LFO sound like a robot.


Brilliant!!!
I just ordered a PSU, BUS and Filter Kit from AI last night.

Filter ends up being the only thing not recommended here butI figure you can never have too many filters....

I will definitely order that Matrix Mixer!!!
Yes Powder
StrangeCaptain wrote:
Filter ends up being the only thing not recommended here butI figure you can never have too many filters....


Well, the way the actual saying goes is, srsly never
There's probably a good reason that nobody suggested adding a filter; it really wouldn't give you a meaningful expansion of patchability with what you have now. You'd really find more immediate increase in power for your budding system by investing in some modulation and CV tools, which is why I suggested the Rampage, and other people were suggesting things like comparators, LFOs, mixers, and the like.
They're certainly not as exciting as a new filter, but they'll give you more control over what you have now as well and what you'll get later.
deftinwulf
abelovesfun wrote:
A bit left field perhaps, but I used a Neutron as the example patch for my Matrix Mixer roll out.


Hi, Abe. I also have a Neutron (and a full Mantis rack) but no Matrix Mixer. This is a piece of kit that has intrigued me for a while, but most of them are too huge or too expensive to be practical for me. Yours is by far the most cost effective and space-efficient example I've seen.

The question I have is what is the voltage range of the inputs/outputs? Does the AI008 just pass through whatever voltages come into it? So if it's an 8v signal, 100% on the knob will allow all 8V's through? Or will it clip/scale? What's the headroom?

Had a look at the manual but did not see this information mentioned. Apologies if I'm fundamentally misunderstanding how matrix mixers work.
abelovesfun
deftinwulf wrote:
abelovesfun wrote:
A bit left field perhaps, but I used a Neutron as the example patch for my Matrix Mixer roll out.


Hi, Abe. I also have a Neutron (and a full Mantis rack) but no Matrix Mixer. This is a piece of kit that has intrigued me for a while, but most of them are too huge or too expensive to be practical for me. Yours is by far the most cost effective and space-efficient example I've seen.

The question I have is what is the voltage range of the inputs/outputs? Does the AI008 just pass through whatever voltages come into it? So if it's an 8v signal, 100% on the knob will allow all 8V's through? Or will it clip/scale? What's the headroom?

Had a look at the manual but did not see this information mentioned. Apologies if I'm fundamentally misunderstanding how matrix mixers work.


My apologies, I'll add this to the manual.
Yes, if you have an 8v peak to peak signal in A1, with the knob at 100%, the output of A will be that 8v peak to peak waveform, in phase. The mixed output is a little quieter, because with all of that voltage, I didn't want it to clip. This can be changed by subbing it's feedback resistor to 100k. Here is an image:


In this picture, the Green and Blue waveform overlap completely. The Green is the signal before going into input 1, at 5v peak to peak. The input is 100% for A1. The Blue wave is output A, perfectly in phase, and at 5V peak to peak. The Red waveform is the summed output. In Phase but at about 2V peak to peak. I designed it that way because that summed output is going to have a lot going on most of the time, and I didn't want it to clip. I'll add this to the manual. Let me know if you have any other questions![/img]
deftinwulf
That's really helpful, Abe! Thank you so much.

I definitely understand the usefulness of scaling down the summed output to keep it from clipping. It seems like a very well designed module. Plus the DIY nature of them it's great that you can alter that response by changing resistors.

I'm in the process of deciding which modules will best suit the space I'm freeing up in my rack, but I'll be keeping a close eye on the AI008. Chugging Beers
StrangeCaptain
Yes Powder wrote:
StrangeCaptain wrote:
Filter ends up being the only thing not recommended here butI figure you can never have too many filters....


Well, the way the actual saying goes is, srsly never
There's probably a good reason that nobody suggested adding a filter; it really wouldn't give you a meaningful expansion of patchability with what you have now. You'd really find more immediate increase in power for your budding system by investing in some modulation and CV tools, which is why I suggested the Rampage, and other people were suggesting things like comparators, LFOs, mixers, and the like.
They're certainly not as exciting as a new filter, but they'll give you more control over what you have now as well and what you'll get later.


Yes for sure.
The filter purchase was not timed well with the results of this thread.
I started putting together a cart just to see what was involved in building a module and ended up with $45 total cost so i pulled the trigger.

Better to ask forgiveness...


while the filter may technically be the first module I purchased I plan on using the fantastic info you all have provided in planning successive modules.
Likely starting with that Matrix Mixer which appears to fit bot the "Modulation" and "CV Tools" , additionally I over purchased resisters and such that appears to be common amongst AI Modules so I am already on my way to to that Matrix if that's the one I decide to go with
SyndieBot2000XL
Don’t feel too bad; that AI filter is awesome, and a fun build. Probably some overlap with the Neutron’s filter - very very aggressive, but you can use it as an extra oscillator or a noise source or even a modulation source if you’re feeling frisky.
ggillon
OP don't take this wrong but it feels like you are missing the point of modular synthesis.

You have a fine semi modular. It is full of patch points just waiting for you to feed them CV signals. So you naturally think "I will add some modules to it"

That's great, but then why in the hell you want to slap it a filter or effect modules? Effects and filters expect sound and output sound. And they also want more CV sources. Filter and effects are not selling points of modulars. Not even close. Plenty of great effect and filters in pedals and desktop. Selling point of modular is CV.


You just doubled your needs of modulation all while completely ignoring any recommendation of the thread. Meanwhile 90% of the time your patch will consist in Neutron out to filter in. See where I'm going? That's not different from standard desktop synths

edit: I'm not trying to criticize your choice. Just to explain the reason why everybody recommends CV tools as first modules: because this is where all the fun of modulars is SlayerBadger! (even if it sounds less immediately sexy than a gorgeous filter or reverb). Modulars are great for automating parameters changes with CV signals, so you don't need to spend all your time twisting knobs to make your sounds change. Hopefully you still have a few CV sources on your Neutron to modulate that filter: LFO, VCO, envelope ...
Agawell
A quick cheapish fix to lack of modulation

Mutable kinks
A mult kit was r stackcables
A matrix mixer kit

patch these together

mod source to top section of kinks
Mod source to input 1 of Kim’s middle

Trigger /gate to kinks bottom section

One out from top to input 2 of kinks middle

Patch matrix mixer inputs from these leaving 1 input free

Patch 1 output of matrix mixer to spare input

You should now have 8+ related modulation sources to use
StrangeCaptain
ggillon wrote:
OP don't take this wrong but it feels like you are missing the point of modular synthesis.

You have a fine semi modular. It is full of patch points just waiting for you to feed them CV signals. So you naturally think "I will add some modules to it"

That's great, but then why in the hell you want to slap it a filter or effect modules? Effects and filters expect sound and output sound. And they also want more CV sources. Filter and effects are not selling points of modulars. Not even close. Plenty of great effect and filters in pedals and desktop. Selling point of modular is CV.


You just doubled your needs of modulation all while completely ignoring any recommendation of the thread. Meanwhile 90% of the time your patch will consist in Neutron out to filter in. See where I'm going? That's not different from standard desktop synths

edit: I'm not trying to criticize your choice. Just to explain the reason why everybody recommends CV tools as first modules: because this is where all the fun of modulars is SlayerBadger! (even if it sounds less immediately sexy than a gorgeous filter or reverb). Modulars are great for automating parameters changes with CV signals, so you don't need to spend all your time twisting knobs to make your sounds change. Hopefully you still have a few CV sources on your Neutron to modulate that filter: LFO, VCO, envelope ...



yup, I hear ya, I'm totally that guy that asks for advice then ignores it smile

actually I rarely ignore advice and when I do I don't post about it.
smile

by time anyone read my OP, the Filter module was already ordered.

The real outcome of this thread is exactly what you suggest (at least I think). I will be buying a Matrix Mixer for my first (second) module.


as I mentioned somewhere in here the Filter was an exercise in sourcing parts separately from the PCB/panel that ended up with me buying a filter.

I am aware of poor optics of my actions and I am truly sorry for the disrespect it implies, I assure there is none intended!

smile
StrangeCaptain
SyndieBot2000XL wrote:
Don’t feel too bad; that AI filter is awesome, and a fun build. Probably some overlap with the Neutron’s filter - very very aggressive, but you can use it as an extra oscillator or a noise source or even a modulation source if you’re feeling frisky.


thanks!
StrangeCaptain
Agawell wrote:
A quick cheapish fix to lack of modulation

Mutable kinks
A mult kit was r stackcables
A matrix mixer kit

patch these together

mod source to top section of kinks
Mod source to input 1 of Kim’s middle

Trigger /gate to kinks bottom section

One out from top to input 2 of kinks middle

Patch matrix mixer inputs from these leaving 1 input free

Patch 1 output of matrix mixer to spare input

You should now have 8+ related modulation sources to use



Nice, Matrix mix is in the queue
StrangeCaptain
So despite my lack of etiquette in giving the incorrect impression I ordered a Filter AFTER I read all your advice (the filter was already ordered, but I wasn't clear about that) I wanted to share my first random patch on the Neutron.

even if I never get another sound out of this thing I will be happy

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