Disting - K7 Tap Tempo

Discussion and support for Expert Sleepers' Silent Way software and hardware.
Post Reply
Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Disting - K7 Tap Tempo

Post by Anghel » Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:27 pm

How should i work with the tap tempo in the k7 stereo sd delay? sometimes i play with say a "current" sound that i loop with the delay for a while, i tap to change tempo, but suddenly a very old loop (entire loop or fragment) jumps in my current loop .. with its forgotten tempo, volume etc and my "current" jam is kinda lost ..

i need to understand how is intended to work; i expected to reset (somehow) the reel too on tap; or a bug?

[edit] and sometimes on single taps it's a bit weird, suddenly it does a very short delay loop without waiting for the next tap and print that loop on the tape and can't escape from it except with the feedback diminished to minimum and reloop everything. in the B4 clockable delay it's different, maybe i'm just used to it.

:)

thanks!
Last edited by Anghel on Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Disting - K7 Tap Tempo

Post by Anghel » Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:31 pm

[double post]

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13613
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:29 am

The 'first' tap is setting the delay time to be the time between that and the previous tap, which was probably quite a long time if you've been jamming for a while. So you end up with a very long loop, extending back to previous material.

It's the same as B4, but since the maximum time of B4 is much less, you don't notice it.

Nothing resets the delay to blank, except changing algorithm & back.

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:18 am

os wrote:The 'first' tap is setting the delay time to be the time between that and the previous tap, which was probably quite a long time if you've been jamming for a while. So you end up with a very long loop, extending back to previous material.

It's the same as B4, but since the maximum time of B4 is much less, you don't notice it.

Nothing resets the delay to blank, except changing algorithm & back.
I was jamming for a while with the same and short loop .. :) on tap tempo some left overs from the card jumped in, several times, until i didn't understood what the tap is doing. say i'm looping for half an hour a Hihat, i tap tempo and it jumps in randomly a synth loop with snares or whatever other sound from one hour ago, at it's tempo, even if for a long time i was looping a hihat at other tempos.

but i should make a video if it happens ..

and it happens while jamming a lot (same short loop, taped correctly, say 1 bar) with feedback left almost to maximum, red. it doesn't do it if i loop with "fade out" - feedback set to blueish ..

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:27 pm

I made a video. There was nothing going on in the delay, the feedback set to zero, i turn it up and when i tap there's a hi hat :) this is what i try to understand how it works.

https://we.tl/t-EpWzC8gVdC

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:20 pm

The best example in another video

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t5gdec6mru283 ... 7.mp4?dl=0

in my patch there are 2 sources, a synth and a hh .. i play only my hh, the synth is long ago filtered off and lost in the fades of the beatiful delays .. but when i tap tempo even if i play only the hh, the already "inexistent" synth loop jumps back in, while in reality he's silent ..

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13613
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:54 am

Say you were playing that synth 10 minutes before you took the video, and set the tap tempo around that time.

So when you press the button, you're setting the delay time to 10 minutes. So the 'read head' on the delay jumps back 10 minutes into the past.

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:32 am

os wrote:Say you were playing that synth 10 minutes before you took the video, and set the tap tempo around that time.

So when you press the button, you're setting the delay time to 10 minutes. So the 'read head' on the delay jumps back 10 minutes into the past.
:)) i'm more and more confused. :sb:

i made a 1 bar tap tempo loop at 91 bpm for the synth, and started playing at full feedback - red, after that i rolled down the feedback to zero - blue, thinking that the reel is empty; waiting for the synth to fade out, until i can't hear anything going on; start to play with the hh, in the same 1 bar loop, the only thing going on is hh, and on tap tempo the faded out synth is back. i don't use right now 10 minutes loops, i can't control it in 1 bar yet :)) .. only testing with short and understandable times

so .. :despair:

i don't know if this could be useful, but rolling off the feedback, let's stay in one bar, and waiting until you can't hear anything in that loop .. it's not the loop itself, that silence? :D

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13613
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:21 am

It is, but when you press the tap tempo button you're suddenly making the loop much longer, so it encompasses past material.

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:34 am

os wrote:It is, but when you press the tap tempo button you're suddenly making the loop much longer, so it encompasses past material.
i kinda start to understand it .. that the buffer remembers longer things even if i hear something else and play in a shorter time frame .. but this way, as you can see, i can't use it, cause i can't control what i can't hear, and it's impossible even if i'm trained with free jazz etc :)) to remember exactly how a past loop sounded (its volume and time shape) while playing something already weird in the present (when beats, bass, synths are all playing together) .. and when i expect to loop silences too :D .. these loud jumps are not really musical ... and they stay in the new loop too, and ruin everything :))

don't know what's the solution for me except maybe the B4 in stereo :D .. i use it with the Morphagene .. i need stereo now :ripbanana: ... but it's so good to have such long delays .. damn :bang:

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13613
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:03 am

If you press it twice (basically double click it) when setting your new delay time you can get round this.

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:51 am

os wrote:If you press it twice (basically double click it) when setting your new delay time you can get round this.
I tried this one too. with feedback zero, changing the sound to dry, before that double tap etc .. or else, with feedback just a bit engaged that short double tap loop is recorded inside de next loop, and is unwanted .. it's a complicated problem, musically speaking.

I don't know how to call the FX i need, but this delay is very very close;

The only musical method i can think of is releasing the feedback since it's already there and working intuitively, which starts to release the sounds even if it's not totally dry (it already releases at 70-80% i think), a good thing, and when it's empty, that emptiness should be the cleared reel in loop - i associate the feedback release with clearing the reel, basically that is what's going on in real time anyways, without the tap it loops emptiness, no past recordings, because this is what i let go with the release of feedback, and if you wanted a 30 min loop, you will manage to fade that loop out in whatever time it needs, it's your business, but when is empty and feedback zero, that's your real time reel/loop .. engage tap and begin from there

Feedback knob - the musical intention - linked to the total recording time.

For me it's pointless to let go 2 minutes, but keep in my head the rest of 28 minutes i can't remember anymore ..

This is how i imagine the workflow, but i don't think in algorithms .. and my english too is very limited to explain it better :D

anyways, thanks a lot, don't want to push this topic further, this delay is still great, maybe i'll find a way around it as you said, or you'll think about some new version of FX .. more looper oriented i think? :)

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:45 am

i'm still trying to accommodate to the K7 but it's difficult when switching Morphagene reels for example, with completely different moods, i always end up taping for a new clock, even with feedback zero + quick taps, and having sounds from the past with other melodies looping in randomness over the current loop. it's fun, but it's very unpredictable. i use it a lot, 3 Distings being my actual FX chain. :confused:

it could be possible somehow to program if feedback it's zero or -1 to clear the past? or some way to be sure it will start a new empty loop? :yay: ... in my workflow if i turn down the feedback, i'm sure i don't need anymore that loop.

other than that it's fantastic using it, sometimes even with this randomness, can't notice it if using the same sound forever! the only problem is when switching to completely new sounds, preparing a new idea for the mix in realtime.

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13613
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:04 am

At the moment the only way to clear it is to switch to a different algorithm and back.

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:30 pm

Thank God! :)) i found what doesn't work? .. I think the whole mess is because of the multiplier, i used to use it x 6-8. I was so confused watching your videos, on how the loops quickly fade out and everything is under control. On zero it is controllable as we talked here, with fast taps etc. Something is going on really weird with the multiplier, if turned up, on taps it restarts old loops, or old starting points, i don't know, at high levels and that's it, can't get rid of them. Anyways, i'm so worried (i'm sorry) cause i have an important gig next weekend, and as i said my fx combo right now is 3 Distings, and i can't go back to mono now ;)) .. i try to make them work with the new stereo stuff - filter, reverb, delay. They should be a simple and great combo for live.

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13613
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:28 am

I may have just spotted a bug. I'll see if I can get you a version to test later.

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:06 am

os wrote:I may have just spotted a bug. I'll see if I can get you a version to test later.
:tu:

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13613
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:40 am

Please try the attached firmware.

I've added a setting for the maximum delay time that the SD delays can use. If the time between taps is more than this, the tap is ignored.

So you can tap a delay, play for 5 minutes, then tap twice to set a new delay and not have it go mental on the first tap.

Also there should now be no possibility of pulling in audio from previous sessions.
Attachments
image.hex.zip
(212.95 KiB) Downloaded 2 times

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:57 am

os wrote:Please try the attached firmware.

I've added a setting for the maximum delay time that the SD delays can use. If the time between taps is more than this, the tap is ignored.

So you can tap a delay, play for 5 minutes, then tap twice to set a new delay and not have it go mental on the first tap.

Also there should now be no possibility of pulling in audio from previous sessions.
Thank you so much Os! I'll try it right away. :party:

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:08 pm

It's absolutely fantastic this combo, with presets, extra simple but useful live friendly controls, 3 x stereo in/outs, 3 x modulations, select bus, and excellent sound :) not mentioning that it can be anything else from an endless list of things ... too much fun :help:

Post Reply

Return to “Expert Sleepers”